Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

hi folks. i could really use some help on this one, as it's grinding
my work to a 
halt. problem summary: my XL-7's tempo drifts in relation to an
external 
master tempo clock. yes, i have Base Tempo set to "ext". the XL-7 is 
connected to a MOTU micro lite, connected via USB to my Mac G4,
running 
Digital Performer 4.1 on OS 10.2.8.

as a Digital Performer sequence plays, the tempo on the XL-7 will
usually 
start in-sync, then jump a few BPM's higher or lower, then return to sync for a 
few measures. then it might jump 1 BPM higher, stay there for two
measures, 
and then regain sync. the fluctuations are erratic, and while it
keeps sync 
about 80% of the time, that other 20% can really screw up arpeggios,
delays, 
and LFO's that are supposed to be tempo-synced.

the problem remains whether an empty sequence plays back (no MIDI
data at 
all) or a sequence with 10 MIDI tracks and lots of CC info plays back.

i've checked, re-checked, and re-re-checked my Digital Performer sync 
settings, and of course the XL-7's Base Tempo setting.  maybe it's
the MOTU 
interface? maybe it's USB? i've heard strange rumors about MIDI and
USB not 
getting along well. maybe it's that my MIDI interface is plugged into
a USB 
hub? 

i've tried searching the archive here, but haven't found anything
like this 
problem. if anyone could direct me to a thread here that i've missed,
or of 
anyone has some insight into this problem, you would have my eternal 
gratitude. my hunch is that either i don't have DP's "transmit sync" settings 
right (even though i THINK i do), or that there is a problem with USB or my 
MIDI interface.

thanks!

Wow, that's pretty crazy!  To be honest, the only setting that might have 
anything to do with this in the XL-7, is the Base Tempo (which you already 
know).  So I'd be inclined to think this is a motu problem rather than an 
EMu one.  I know, I know, not what you want to hear, but I honestly can't 
think of anything in the XL-7 that would be causing this.  Are you sure 
you're using a quality MIDI cable?  It's a long shot, but that might be 
causing it (very unlikely though).

When you say that the XL-7 is jumping up or down a BPM or two, how are you 
determining this?  Just by looking at the front panel of the XL-7?  I 
don't think that you should neccesarily go by just that, even with a solid 
clock source, the XL-7's display tends to jump like that when sync'd 
externally.  NOw if you're hearing timing fluctuations, that's a different 
story. 

Are you using the latest drivers for your MIDI interface?  I don't think 
USB MIDI interfaces are inherently bad with timing though.  I use a 
MIDISport 4x4 with no issues what so ever, so it can be done.

rEalm





as a Digital Performer sequence plays, the tempo on the XL-7 will usually 
start in-sync, then jump a few BPM's higher or lower, then return to sync 
for a few measures. then it might jump 1 BPM higher, stay there for two
measures, and then regain sync. the fluctuations are erratic, and while it 
keeps sync about 80% of the time, that other 20% can really screw up 
arpeggios, delays, and LFO's that are supposed to be tempo-synced.

the problem remains whether an empty sequence plays back (no MIDI data at 
all) or a sequence with 10 MIDI tracks and lots of CC info plays back.


 






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...i would first find a drum machine, or kbd with midi clock out and 
try syncing with that....at least you could then eliminate the xl7 as 
being the problem.

then, i would try using the mtp without the hub, and if that fails, 
try another cheap midi interface.  those motu boxes can be a pain, 
and may be the culprit.

deknow

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "wildstar_1701" <justinsamaha@y...> wrote:
> hi folks. i could really use some help on this one, as it's grinding
> my work to a 
> halt. problem summary: my XL-7's tempo drifts in relation to an
> external 
> master tempo clock. yes, i have Base Tempo set to "ext". the XL-7 
is 
> connected to a MOTU micro lite, connected via USB to my Mac G4,
> running 
> Digital Performer 4.1 on OS 10.2.8.
> 
> as a Digital Performer sequence plays, the tempo on the XL-7 will
> usually 
> start in-sync, then jump a few BPM's higher or lower, then return 
to sync for a 
> few measures. then it might jump 1 BPM higher, stay there for two
> measures, 
> and then regain sync. the fluctuations are erratic, and while it
> keeps sync 
> about 80% of the time, that other 20% can really screw up arpeggios,
> delays, 
> and LFO's that are supposed to be tempo-synced.
> 
> the problem remains whether an empty sequence plays back (no MIDI
> data at 
> all) or a sequence with 10 MIDI tracks and lots of CC info plays 
back.
> 
> i've checked, re-checked, and re-re-checked my Digital Performer 
sync 
> settings, and of course the XL-7's Base Tempo setting.  maybe it's
> the MOTU 
> interface? maybe it's USB? i've heard strange rumors about MIDI and
> USB not 
> getting along well. maybe it's that my MIDI interface is plugged 
into
> a USB 
> hub? 
> 
> i've tried searching the archive here, but haven't found anything
> like this 
> problem. if anyone could direct me to a thread here that i've 
missed,
> or of 
> anyone has some insight into this problem, you would have my 
eternal 
> gratitude. my hunch is that either i don't have DP's "transmit 
sync" settings 
> right (even though i THINK i do), or that there is a problem with 
USB or my 

> MIDI interface.
> 
> thanks!

That's a good idea too, I use that one sometimes for trouble shooting.  If 
you're syncing to another box, make sure it's tempo is set to a whole 
number, as the XX-7's don't display finer resolutions, and the display 
will always jump around in these cases.

rEalm




...i would first find a drum machine, or kbd with midi clock out and 
try syncing with that....at least you could then eliminate the xl7 as 
being the problem.

 






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thanks for the help. i think i'm narrowing in on the problem. i don't have 
another durm machine to test, but i am getting rock-solid sync with my other 
synths for thier delays and LFO's, all hooked into the same MOTU interface.

so i think Digital Performer is not the problem. gotta be the cables, interface, 
or XL-7 (which i highly doubt.)

realm, i took your suggestion and tried swapping MIDI cables. unfortunately, 
it's the same brand of super cheapo cables, but a shorter length so i thought: 
give it a try. the sync has actually improved a bit.  i'm not 100% about my 
judgement now, since i've been obsessed with this problem for a couple of 
weeks. so i went ahead and ordered a top of the line MIDI cable to see if that 
helps. i once had a problem with cheap MIDI cables and my Nord modular a 
few years ago (which i had forgotten about until you reminded me.)

you asked if i was going by the front panel display to verify tempo sync - yes 
and no.  when i hear a fluctuation in delays or LFO's during playback, i'll look 
at the panel and see that it has jumped to a signifigantly different tempo 
(though briefly.) the typical fluctuations are small - 1or 2 BPM's, and i don't 
hear anything wrong with those, so you're right that those must be normal. it's 
the big stuff that screws everything up, but they don't last long.

if the new MIDI cable doesn't solve this, then i will probably try a new 
interface. did you mention you used a MIDISport, realm? anything else that 
anyone recommends? it's needs to be USB and Mac compatible.

thanks so much!

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:

> That's a good idea too, I use that one sometimes for trouble shooting.  If 
> you're syncing to another box, make sure it's tempo is set to a whole 
> number, as the XX-7's don't display finer resolutions, and the display 
> will always jump around in these cases.

> 
> 
> ...i would first find a drum machine, or kbd with midi clock out and 
> try syncing with that....at least you could then eliminate the xl7 as 
> being the problem.
> 
>

I have had this problem before, but it seems the display will lag 
before the actual sounds. I guess it has its priorities straight.
  Tom

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:
> That's a good idea too, I use that one sometimes for trouble 
shooting.  If 
> you're syncing to another box, make sure it's tempo is set to a 
whole 
> number, as the XX-7's don't display finer resolutions, and the 
display 
> will always jump around in these cases.
> 
> rEalm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...i would first find a drum machine, or kbd with midi clock out 
and 
> try syncing with that....at least you could then eliminate the xl7 
as 
> being the problem.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person(s)or 
entity 
> to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or 
legally 
> privileged material. Delivery of this message to any person other 
than 
> the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive 
privilege 
> or confidentiality. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or 
other 
> use of , or taking of any action in reliance upon, this 
information by 

> entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you 
> receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the 
> material from any computer.
> 
> For Translation:
> 
> http://www.baxter.com/email_disclaimer
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ah, a DP user. I have spent the last few weeks trying to work with 
DP. I think I'm going to loose my sound card and go w/protools. DP 
just doesn't seem to make sense to me. How do you like it? (ver 2.72)
  Tom

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "wildstar_1701" <justinsamaha@y...> 
wrote:
> thanks for the help. i think i'm narrowing in on the problem. i 
don't have 
> another durm machine to test, but i am getting rock-solid sync 
with my other 
> synths for thier delays and LFO's, all hooked into the same MOTU 
interface.
> 
> so i think Digital Performer is not the problem. gotta be the 
cables, interface, 
> or XL-7 (which i highly doubt.)
> 
> realm, i took your suggestion and tried swapping MIDI cables. 
unfortunately, 
> it's the same brand of super cheapo cables, but a shorter length 
so i thought: 
> give it a try. the sync has actually improved a bit.  i'm not 100% 
about my 
> judgement now, since i've been obsessed with this problem for a 
couple of 
> weeks. so i went ahead and ordered a top of the line MIDI cable to 
see if that 
> helps. i once had a problem with cheap MIDI cables and my Nord 
modular a 
> few years ago (which i had forgotten about until you reminded me.)
> 
> you asked if i was going by the front panel display to verify 
tempo sync - yes 
> and no.  when i hear a fluctuation in delays or LFO's during 
playback, i'll look 
> at the panel and see that it has jumped to a signifigantly 
different tempo 
> (though briefly.) the typical fluctuations are small - 1or 2 
BPM's, and i don't 
> hear anything wrong with those, so you're right that those must be 
normal. it's 
> the big stuff that screws everything up, but they don't last long.
> 
> if the new MIDI cable doesn't solve this, then i will probably try 
a new 
> interface. did you mention you used a MIDISport, realm? anything 
else that 
> anyone recommends? it's needs to be USB and Mac compatible.
> 
> thanks so much!
> 
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:
> > That's a good idea too, I use that one sometimes for trouble 
shooting.  If 
> > you're syncing to another box, make sure it's tempo is set to a 
whole 
> > number, as the XX-7's don't display finer resolutions, and the 
display 
> > will always jump around in these cases.
> 
> > 
> > 
> > ...i would first find a drum machine, or kbd with midi clock out 
and 
> > try syncing with that....at least you could then eliminate the 
xl7 as 

> > being the problem.
> > 
> >

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "dj 61" <dj61@d...> wrote:
> Ah, a DP user. I have spent the last few weeks trying to work with 
> DP. I think I'm going to loose my sound card and go w/protools. DP 
> just doesn't seem to make sense to me. How do you like it? (ver
2.72)
>   Tom
> 

are you nuts?! ditch DP for PT? stop the madness!

seriously though, do you like to do a lot of sequencing with your
computer? 
(as opposed to your XX-7) because MIDI editing and sequencing with
Pro 
Tools sucks. truly, profoundly sucks. PT excels at certain things,
but MIDI it 
ain't. i use PT 6.1.2 with a Digi 002 Rack system for certain things,
but never, 
ever MIDI.

no disrespect intended towards anyone who does like PT for MIDI,
because 
i'm sure there are many serious dudes on this board who do serious
stuff with 
PT. i tip my hat to them.

but you asked, so i'm answering, based on my own humble opinion. and
this 
reply assumes you intend to do real sequencing with your DAW. i use
DP 4.1 
on OS 10, but spent a few years on 2.7-3.2 in OS9 first. the first
thing you 
should do is switch to OS10and upgrade to 4.1. the difference is
amazing. but 
if you can't do that, at least upgrade to 3.2 for OS9. the jump
between 2.XX 
and 3 is also pretty damn cool.

when it comes to MIDI sequencing with software, nothing, and i mean
nothing, 
beats the Big Three: DP, Cubase, and Logic. kinda like Lexus,
Infinity, and 
Acura. to each his own, but everyone knows those are the best. i
prefer DP 
because i do a lot of film scoring, and it has a lot of features just
for folks like 
me.

just as an example of why DP rules: have you tried <compressing> your
on-
velocity information with its "change velocity" tool? i mean come on!
that is the 
coolest shit ever! you can set ratio, make-up gain...  or how about
drawing in a 
nice logarithmic MIDI volume fade-in fade with the Pencil tool.

Pro Tools LE does not do these things. and it does not do a lot of
other 
important stuff. Pro Tools LE is essentially designed to leave out
certain 
features to make you want an HD system, which costs $10,000 or so.
i'm 
assuming you're talking about a $400 - $2000 LE system.

 the Big Three are designed to be native-system answers to HD, TDM,
and 
what-have-you. they are big players. they are deep. stick with DP,
get through 
the learning curve, and you'll be glad you did. and MOTU's DP manual
is 
great - i've read it cover to cover several times.

good luck with it!

I have been using the mp-7 and 2500 for sequencing but I am planning 
to move to computer for that to add more variation to loops. I have 
read so many fhorror stories on having problems with new versions of 
dp and osx. I am new to the mac platform and want to work with 
something that is already stable. It did seem to have alot of midi 
features that I did not see on PT, but I have not tried to do any 
midi with either. What about audio functions? It is so much quicker 
and more intuitive for me in the pro tools environment. Just the 
simples audio editing seem slow in DP and just does not make alot of 
sense to me. I would hate to try to do a stutter. Maybe I just need 
to learn the shortcuts. I have played with cubase and logic as well, 
but they were difficult for me as well. I just did simple recording 
and audio sequencing. Do you have an extra copy of your old 2.xx 
manual you want to get rid of? I do not have net or a printer at 
home and it would be a small fortune to print on campus. I would 
like to just purchase a print version. I posted a request on the DP 
group but alas no response. Anyway I will keep working with it and 
possibly use protools for audio. 
   Thanks for your input. If you know where I could get a good DP 
tutorial please post a link.
          Tom


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "wildstar_1701" <justinsamaha@y...> 
wrote:
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "dj 61" <dj61@d...> wrote:
> > Ah, a DP user. I have spent the last few weeks trying to work 
with 
> > DP. I think I'm going to loose my sound card and go w/protools. 
DP 
> > just doesn't seem to make sense to me. How do you like it? (ver
> 2.72)
> >   Tom
> > 
> 
> are you nuts?! ditch DP for PT? stop the madness!
> 
> seriously though, do you like to do a lot of sequencing with your
> computer? 
> (as opposed to your XX-7) because MIDI editing and sequencing with
> Pro 
> Tools sucks. truly, profoundly sucks. PT excels at certain things,
> but MIDI it 
> ain't. i use PT 6.1.2 with a Digi 002 Rack system for certain 
things,
> but never, 
> ever MIDI.
> 
> no disrespect intended towards anyone who does like PT for MIDI,
> because 
> i'm sure there are many serious dudes on this board who do serious
> stuff with 
> PT. i tip my hat to them.
> 
> but you asked, so i'm answering, based on my own humble opinion. 
and
> this 
> reply assumes you intend to do real sequencing with your DAW. i use
> DP 4.1 
> on OS 10, but spent a few years on 2.7-3.2 in OS9 first. the first
> thing you 
> should do is switch to OS10and upgrade to 4.1. the difference is
> amazing. but 
> if you can't do that, at least upgrade to 3.2 for OS9. the jump
> between 2.XX 
> and 3 is also pretty damn cool.
> 
> when it comes to MIDI sequencing with software, nothing, and i mean
> nothing, 
> beats the Big Three: DP, Cubase, and Logic. kinda like Lexus,
> Infinity, and 
> Acura. to each his own, but everyone knows those are the best. i
> prefer DP 
> because i do a lot of film scoring, and it has a lot of features 
just
> for folks like 
> me.
> 
> just as an example of why DP rules: have you tried <compressing> 
your
> on-
> velocity information with its "change velocity" tool? i mean come 
on!
> that is the 
> coolest shit ever! you can set ratio, make-up gain...  or how about
> drawing in a 
> nice logarithmic MIDI volume fade-in fade with the Pencil tool.
> 
> Pro Tools LE does not do these things. and it does not do a lot of
> other 
> important stuff. Pro Tools LE is essentially designed to leave out
> certain 
> features to make you want an HD system, which costs $10,000 or so.
> i'm 
> assuming you're talking about a $400 - $2000 LE system.
> 
>  the Big Three are designed to be native-system answers to HD, TDM,
> and 
> what-have-you. they are big players. they are deep. stick with DP,
> get through 
> the learning curve, and you'll be glad you did. and MOTU's DP 
manual

> is 
> great - i've read it cover to cover several times.
> 
> good luck with it!

I have been using the mp-7 and 2500 for sequencing but I am planning 
to move to computer for that to add more variation to loops. I have 
read so many fhorror stories on having problems with new versions of 
dp and osx. I am new to the mac platform and want to work with 
something that is already stable. It did seem to have alot of midi 
features that I did not see on PT, but I have not tried to do any 
midi with either. What about audio functions? It is so much quicker 
and more intuitive for me in the pro tools environment. Just the 
simples audio editing seem slow in DP and just does not make alot of 
sense to me. I would hate to try to do a stutter. Maybe I just need 
to learn the shortcuts. I have played with cubase and logic as well, 
but they were difficult for me as well. I just did simple recording 
and audio sequencing. Do you have an extra copy of your old 2.xx 
manual you want to get rid of? I do not have net or a printer at 
home and it would be a small fortune to print on campus. I would 
like to just purchase a print version. I posted a request on the DP 
group but alas no response. Anyway I will keep working with it and 
possibly use protools for audio. 
   Thanks for your input. If you know where I could get a good DP 
tutorial please post a link.
          Tom


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "wildstar_1701" <justinsamaha@y...> 
wrote:
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "dj 61" <dj61@d...> wrote:
> > Ah, a DP user. I have spent the last few weeks trying to work 
with 
> > DP. I think I'm going to loose my sound card and go w/protools. 
DP 
> > just doesn't seem to make sense to me. How do you like it? (ver
> 2.72)
> >   Tom
> > 
> 
> are you nuts?! ditch DP for PT? stop the madness!
> 
> seriously though, do you like to do a lot of sequencing with your
> computer? 
> (as opposed to your XX-7) because MIDI editing and sequencing with
> Pro 
> Tools sucks. truly, profoundly sucks. PT excels at certain things,
> but MIDI it 
> ain't. i use PT 6.1.2 with a Digi 002 Rack system for certain 
things,
> but never, 
> ever MIDI.
> 
> no disrespect intended towards anyone who does like PT for MIDI,
> because 
> i'm sure there are many serious dudes on this board who do serious
> stuff with 
> PT. i tip my hat to them.
> 
> but you asked, so i'm answering, based on my own humble opinion. 
and
> this 
> reply assumes you intend to do real sequencing with your DAW. i use
> DP 4.1 
> on OS 10, but spent a few years on 2.7-3.2 in OS9 first. the first
> thing you 
> should do is switch to OS10and upgrade to 4.1. the difference is
> amazing. but 
> if you can't do that, at least upgrade to 3.2 for OS9. the jump
> between 2.XX 
> and 3 is also pretty damn cool.
> 
> when it comes to MIDI sequencing with software, nothing, and i mean
> nothing, 
> beats the Big Three: DP, Cubase, and Logic. kinda like Lexus,
> Infinity, and 
> Acura. to each his own, but everyone knows those are the best. i
> prefer DP 
> because i do a lot of film scoring, and it has a lot of features 
just
> for folks like 
> me.
> 
> just as an example of why DP rules: have you tried <compressing> 
your
> on-
> velocity information with its "change velocity" tool? i mean come 
on!
> that is the 
> coolest shit ever! you can set ratio, make-up gain...  or how about
> drawing in a 
> nice logarithmic MIDI volume fade-in fade with the Pencil tool.
> 
> Pro Tools LE does not do these things. and it does not do a lot of
> other 
> important stuff. Pro Tools LE is essentially designed to leave out
> certain 
> features to make you want an HD system, which costs $10,000 or so.
> i'm 
> assuming you're talking about a $400 - $2000 LE system.
> 
>  the Big Three are designed to be native-system answers to HD, TDM,
> and 
> what-have-you. they are big players. they are deep. stick with DP,
> get through 
> the learning curve, and you'll be glad you did. and MOTU's DP 
manual

> is 
> great - i've read it cover to cover several times.
> 
> good luck with it!

Yes, I use a MIDISport 4x4 and have had no issues with it.  Though I must 
add that this is with Windows drivers, so you may want to research and 
make sure that the Mac drivers are stable too, I have no idea on that.

rEalm




if the new MIDI cable doesn't solve this, then i will probably try a new 
interface. did you mention you used a MIDISport, realm? anything else that 

anyone recommends? it's needs to be USB and Mac compatible.


 






The information transmitted is intended only for the person(s)or entity 
to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or legally 
privileged material. Delivery of this message to any person other than 
the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive privilege 
or confidentiality. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other 
use of , or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by 
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you 
receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the 
material from any computer.

For Translation:

http://www.baxter.com/email_disclaimer


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

just wanted to let folks know that a brand new, top of the line MIDI
cable did 
the trick. i wouldn't have believed it, but now sync is 100% rock
solid. i got a 
monster performance 500 MIDI cable, which cost 4 times as much as the 
previous one! i tried to find a mogami MIDI cable, but no luck. 

if any problems recur, i'll try a new interface.

thanks to all who responded for your help! realm, it looks like your
idea was 
right on target, even though you seemed to doubt it yourself.

rock on, everyone.


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, erik_magrini@B... wrote:
> Yes, I use a MIDISport 4x4 and have had no issues with it.  Though
I must 
> add that this is with Windows drivers, so you may want to research
and 
> make sure that the Mac drivers are stable too, I have no idea on
that.
> 
> rEalm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if the new MIDI cable doesn't solve this, then i will probably try
a new 
> interface. did you mention you used a MIDISport, realm? anything
else that 
> 
> anyone recommends? it's needs to be USB and Mac compatible.
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The information transmitted is intended only for the person(s)or
entity 
> to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or
legally 
> privileged material. Delivery of this message to any person other
than 
> the intended recipient(s) is not intended in any way to waive
privilege 
> or confidentiality. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or
other 
> use of , or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information
by 

> entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you 
> receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the 
> material from any computer.
> 
> For Translation:
> 
> http://www.baxter.com/email_disclaimer
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Excellent news!  I think for a MIDI cable, the Monster one is just fine, 
probably would have been over kill to try and find a Mogami MIDI cable, if 
they even make them.

rEalm




i got a monster performance 500 MIDI cable, which cost 4 times as much as 
the previous one! i tried to find a mogami MIDI cable, but no luck. 


 






The information transmitted is intended only for the person(s)or entity 
to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or legally 
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Hi,

havin no problems syncing XL-7, recorded notes from external, there is not 1
tick mistake, I´m using 
z-tracker,
Christoph

-- 
+++ NEU bei GMX und erstmalig in Deutschland: TÜV-geprüfter Virenschutz +++
100% Virenerkennung nach Wildlist. Infos: http://www.gmx.net/virenschutz

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