Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

so.... if midi looping is not the solution is there one ...

Solution for what ?

What is it you ultimately want to achieve in terms of control or sound, leaving out how to do it ?
I had a lot of trouble interpreting what you wanted from all the wordy posts.

Use this form:

I want to be able to........

or

I want the mix to sound like...... 


Bob



-----Original Message-----

>From: lifeistheformofenergy <lifeistheformofenergy@...>
>Sent: Feb 9, 2006 10:46 PM
>To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [xl7] midi echo is there a solution
>
>so.... if midi looping is not the solution is there one ...
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>Yahoo! Groups Links
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>

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Bob S." <tttsystems@...> wrote:
>
> Solution for what ?

> What is it you ultimately want to achieve in terms of control or 
sound, leaving out how to do it ?

Here's the gist of the desired outcome as I understand it:

>>> I am trying to find out how to change parameters internally [to] 
>>> allow for realtime adjustments that would keep adjusting the
>>> parameters even though the knobs only go as far as they do ... 

Here's where I got that from (part 1 is from Aaron, part 2 is from 
life itself) followed by some comments (part 3) that I hope either 
(1) relate to the desired goal or (2) help someone else get more out 
of their sequencer.

PART 1:
> My only attempt at deciphering the original  question is as
> follows.  I think he's asking if there's any way to internally
> loop the MIDI output of a track back into the track, possibly
> with some processing.  From a parameter or audio point of view that
> sort of makes sense (i.e. feeding back parameter changes can
> produce interesting effects and feeding back audio can yield
> filters,  flangers, and the like).  However, looping back MIDI 
> isn't really  useful.

PART 2:
> YES YOU DECIPHERED COREECTLY  - I am trying to find out how to
> change parameters internally and I figured that looping it via
> midi track rechannelization back into the track might have been
> the resolution because the knob assignments only go so far ... 
> and I thought that if the data was changed and then rechannelized
> back onto the track again it would allow for realtime adjustments
> that would keep adjusting the parameters even though the knobs
> only go as far as they do ... 
> so if this is case is it possible to do this in realtime or is it
> possible to do this all internally but not in realtime and how

PART 3:
The closest I came to doing something that resembles this (if I 
understand it) is trying to use embedded sysex commands.  This 
required the use of (in my case) Cakewalk software to create the 
sysex command, embed it into a track, and create a SMF which I 
loaded into my E-Mu sequencer using e-loader.

Using this method (as a test) I extended the use the knobs by 
changing their settings (what the programmable knobs were set to) 
with the embedded syex command. 

I think I also tested the technique with changing ROM instruments in 
a single patch.

I don't think this is what life...energy had in mind, but it is the 
closest technique I have tried to extend the functionality of the 
knobs.

I suppose life. . . energy might be able to use the technique to 
change patchcord settings to achieve the desired outcome.

Let's say you have a 16-bar pattern using Preset User 005^2, and for 
measures 1-4, the knobs function within a certain range based on 
certain patchcord settings. You might be able to embed a sysex 
command at the very end of measure 4 to change the patchcord 
settings in measures 5-8 do different things or cover a different 
range than in measures 1-4. etc. for measures 9-16.

I say "might" because I did not test this specific task. If anyone 
wants me to do the groundwork and spell out step-by-step details of 
how to do it (if it can be done), contact me off the list. If you 
want to tackle it yourself, take a look in the Files section 
(Controller Midi File: 
Changes MidiA --> MidiE assignments via sysex embedded in pattern) 
and the discussion in the archives (circa 
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/16542).

NOTE: If you try the sample *.mid file I posted, make sure you have 
a multsetup saved with your current or desired controller settings. 
The embedded sysex command will change your controller settings!!!!)

Hope this helps someone.

- Nice Steve the Composer Nice - that seems as though that might 
solve the dilema I was having ...

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "steve_the_composer" <smw-mail@...> wrote:
>
> --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Bob S." <tttsystems@> wrote:
> >
> > Solution for what ?
> 
> > What is it you ultimately want to achieve in terms of control or 
> sound, leaving out how to do it ?
> 
> Here's the gist of the desired outcome as I understand it:
> 
> >>> I am trying to find out how to change parameters internally 
[to] 
> >>> allow for realtime adjustments that would keep adjusting the
> >>> parameters even though the knobs only go as far as they do ... 
> 
> Here's where I got that from (part 1 is from Aaron, part 2 is from 
> life itself) followed by some comments (part 3) that I hope either 
> (1) relate to the desired goal or (2) help someone else get more 
out 
> of their sequencer.
> 
> PART 1:
> > My only attempt at deciphering the original  question is as
> > follows.  I think he's asking if there's any way to internally
> > loop the MIDI output of a track back into the track, possibly
> > with some processing.  From a parameter or audio point of view 
that
> > sort of makes sense (i.e. feeding back parameter changes can
> > produce interesting effects and feeding back audio can yield
> > filters,  flangers, and the like).  However, looping back MIDI 
> > isn't really  useful.
> 
> PART 2:
> > YES YOU DECIPHERED COREECTLY  - I am trying to find out how to
> > change parameters internally and I figured that looping it via
> > midi track rechannelization back into the track might have been
> > the resolution because the knob assignments only go so far ... 
> > and I thought that if the data was changed and then rechannelized
> > back onto the track again it would allow for realtime adjustments
> > that would keep adjusting the parameters even though the knobs
> > only go as far as they do ... 
> > so if this is case is it possible to do this in realtime or is it
> > possible to do this all internally but not in realtime and how
> 
> PART 3:
> The closest I came to doing something that resembles this (if I 
> understand it) is trying to use embedded sysex commands.  This 
> required the use of (in my case) Cakewalk software to create the 
> sysex command, embed it into a track, and create a SMF which I 
> loaded into my E-Mu sequencer using e-loader.
> 
> Using this method (as a test) I extended the use the knobs by 
> changing their settings (what the programmable knobs were set to) 
> with the embedded syex command. 
> 
> I think I also tested the technique with changing ROM instruments 
in 
> a single patch.
> 
> I don't think this is what life...energy had in mind, but it is the 
> closest technique I have tried to extend the functionality of the 
> knobs.
> 
> I suppose life. . . energy might be able to use the technique to 
> change patchcord settings to achieve the desired outcome.
> 
> Let's say you have a 16-bar pattern using Preset User 005^2, and 
for 

> measures 1-4, the knobs function within a certain range based on 
> certain patchcord settings. You might be able to embed a sysex 
> command at the very end of measure 4 to change the patchcord 
> settings in measures 5-8 do different things or cover a different 
> range than in measures 1-4. etc. for measures 9-16.
> 
> I say "might" because I did not test this specific task. If anyone 
> wants me to do the groundwork and spell out step-by-step details of 
> how to do it (if it can be done), contact me off the list. If you 
> want to tackle it yourself, take a look in the Files section 
> (Controller Midi File: 
> Changes MidiA --> MidiE assignments via sysex embedded in pattern) 
> and the discussion in the archives (circa 
> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/16542).
> 
> NOTE: If you try the sample *.mid file I posted, make sure you have 
> a multsetup saved with your current or desired controller settings. 
> The embedded sysex command will change your controller settings!!!!)
> 
> Hope this helps someone.
>