Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

guys- I sincerely hope one of you has the patience to deal with a
couple quickie questions. 
I am an experienced user of midi hardware sequencers & controllers
(doepfer maq & schaltwerk, notron, alesis mmt8, sequentix p3, mobius,
peavey pc1600, drehbank & so on..) & I have a lot of emu gear (audity,
PE, P2k, virtuoso, pk6, six samplers & I make my own flash roms), but
my recently acquired XL-7 is the first time I've had the two main
disciplines in one box. apart from a qy70 :-)

so. my XL-7 is running v2.0. 1.0X
I'm in pattern mode. I want to transpose one track up an octave (using
the page in "pattern edit") without muting any of the other tracks or
stopping the box. what am I doing wrong?
(I have searched "pattern edit" on the archived mails to no avail).

I also have trouble getting the sequencer to start at 1.1 when using
an external clock, & the arpeggiators won't run in time with the
external clock- they run at the right tempo, but off-the-beat.
in fact, sometimes with an external clock, the first thing the XL-7
does sounds like a drumkit being thrown down stairs.

I wish there was a way to have one track be 32 bars (say) of chords,
with a bassline of 1 bar looping around in another track. this would
make the grid editor more user-friendly for quick changes to a short
pattern while the chord sequence continues unaltered.

I like the box a lot, but if I can't sort this out, I can't use it
live & I'll be going back to the p3/proteus 2000/drehbank combo.
is this another case of a product being abandoned just as a user
community was starting to thrash out the wish-list?

duncan/r.m.i.

--- ferrograph632 <goddard.duncan@...> wrote:
> I'm in pattern mode. I want to transpose one track up an octave
> without muting any of the other tracks or stopping the box.

Unfortunately, you can't do that.  What you could do if you're trying
to transpose live is to route a patchcord to pitch and then turn the
knob.  Actually, in many presets, this is already done with MIDI N
(knob 14 MOD 2).

> I also have trouble getting the sequencer to start at 1.1 when using
> an external clock, & the arpeggiators won't run in time with the
> external clock- they run at the right tempo, but off-the-beat.
> in fact, sometimes with an external clock, the first thing the XL-7
> does sounds like a drumkit being thrown down stairs.

LOL.  Awesome.  Sounds like the device you're transmitting clock from
is queueing up a bunch, then spitting them all at the XL-7 at once.  My
only suggestion would be to try a different master clock source or if
it's a device that can send clock *all the time* choose that option.

> I wish there was a way to have one track be 32 bars (say) of chords,
> with a bassline of 1 bar looping around in another track. this would
> make the grid editor more user-friendly for quick changes to a short
> pattern while the chord sequence continues unaltered.

Yep, t'would be nice.

> I like the box a lot, but if I can't sort this out, I can't use it
> live & I'll be going back to the p3/proteus 2000/drehbank combo.
> is this another case of a product being abandoned just as a user
> community was starting to thrash out the wish-list?

Somethin' like that.  =)

Though it does have some quirks and some missing 3.0-like
functionality, it is a flexible beast.  There's probably workarounds
for getting what you want.  Try X-Mix, for example, you might be able
to pull different drum beats from a different patterns.  Maybe have a
pattern full of alternate beats, one on each track.  Then, you could
X-Mix in any of them into the current pattern.  It will even
auto-extend to fill the current length (so a 1-bar pattern would be
extended to 32)...

-Aaron

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>>Unfortunately, you can't do that.  What you could do if you're
trying to transpose live is to route a patchcord to pitch..<<

yeah, I thought so. I was already using a version of this on my
p2k/maq/pocket controller rig, so that my colleague could shift the
octave of his sequencer lines... I do an RT x-fade amongst layers with
different transpose ranges. I have them overlap a bit to get a nice
two-oscillators-on-different-ranges effect.
 
we also use the user-tuning tables so that the doepfer maq stays in
key. it defaults to C2 as the bottom note & doesn't do force-to-scale,
so I've written tables for the different keys we use. I've spent hours
on programming the proteus boxes to make them sound more organic-
routing noise to pitch & stuff like that. they are pretty good, but
for snappy envelopes you need to start with a snappy sample, so we
have our own synth sounds on the flash rom (pro-1, ms6, moogs & so on).

>>suggestion would be to try a different master clock source<<

I think I'm going to end up making the XL-7 the master & just trying
very hard not to stop it in the middle of a piece.... (it would stop a
repeater, a jam-man & a doepfer maq, & upset two echo-pro's & the
adrenalinn on my bass... & the audience would be baffled!) 
at least it does tap-tempo reasonably elegantly.


>>Try X-Mix, for example, you might be able to pull different drum
beats from a different patterns.  Maybe have a pattern full of
alternate beats, one on each track.  Then, you could X-Mix in any of
them into the current pattern.  It will even auto-extend to fill the
current length (so a 1-bar pattern would be extended to 32)...<<

I'll give that a go. I've only had the thing a couple of weeks, so I'm
still poking around & looking at the intimidatingly fat manual.
luckily, most of it is old ground for me... 
we don't often use "programmed" drums (th'other keys man is a drummer,
posing it's own issues when he can't hear things properly on-stage,
but we prefer it that way...) so the issue is more one of trying to
replicate the functionality of another h/w sequencer like the maq or
the notron. 

what I actually want to get the XL-7 doing is playing a chord sequence
in pattern mode while I improvise melody & bass lines over it in a
berlin-school sort of way. 
just tired of carrying so many bits of gear around & trying to stay on
top of all the midi merging/throughing. 

I like the idea of calling up a pattern & having all the important
stuff recalled at one go: the right presets for all channels,
including the ones where there aren't any notes stored against them
(because the maq or a keyboard is going to play on that channel). I
have a workaround for this that involves recording a "placeholder"
part into a track, then deleting the notes again. the XL-7 doesn't
delete the setup data unless you do a particular erase op.) I used to
have to do this with a multisetup recall on the p2k; clunky, & didn't
set up the mix properly.

I also tend to leave the knobs set to their "quick edit" function, so
I've changed two of them to be CC's 7 & 10 (volume & pan) to save me
having to switch to the other pages. damn shame the knobs don't have a
"pass-through" mode, isn't it? I'll probably end up adding a doepfer
PC to act as a master midi mixer.

I have been experimenting with the arpeggiators- maybe this is my way
forward for the live blippy stuff, if I resolve the clock issue & get
it syncopated with the doepfer. I just need to get my head round how
the patterns work. I had to start all over again with this after the
headf*ck of the arpeg section of the novation supernova. 
anyway- cheers for the response. nice to know the list is healthy.
duncan.

> What you could do if you're trying to transpose live 
> is to route a patchcord to pitch and then turn the knob.
> Actually, in many presets, this is already done with MIDI N
> (knob 14 MOD 2).

If you wanted an instantaneous 8va change you could do that too. Eg, 
if you have foot a foot controller (or another controler with off/on 
CC functionality), set one switch to a CC# of your choice [perhaps 
whatever N is set to if its already in many presets to control pitch]. 
You'd have to tweak the patchcord so that the switch on corresponds 
with and octave jump--unless the off state of the switch is 
programmable.

> I also have trouble getting the sequencer to start at 1.1 when
> using an external clock, & the arpeggiators won't run in time with
> the external clock- they run at the right tempo, but off-the-beat.
> in fact, sometimes with an external clock, the first thing the XL-7
> does sounds like a drumkit being thrown down stairs.

In the ARPS menu system, what is the MIDI START SONG setting? If it is 
set to resync arps when the E-Mu gets the external start song byte, 
perhaps having it not synced with the start but rather with the arp 
itself key synced might give you better tracking (ie, trigger the arp 
once the clock has satbilized).

Diagnostic quesation.  Does the BPM display of the E-Mu spike when you 
send an external start and then settle down to the right external BPM?

uh...mine does frequently.
does it mean something?

2006/3/11, steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...>:
>
> > I also have trouble getting the sequencer to start at 1.1 when
> > using an external clock, & the arpeggiators won't run in time with
> > the external clock- they run at the right tempo, but off-the-beat.
> > in fact, sometimes with an external clock, the first thing the XL-7
> > does sounds like a drumkit being thrown down stairs.
>
> In the ARPS menu system, what is the MIDI START SONG setting? If it is
> set to resync arps when the E-Mu gets the external start song byte,
> perhaps having it not synced with the start but rather with the arp
> itself key synced might give you better tracking (ie, trigger the arp
> once the clock has satbilized).
>
> Diagnostic quesation.  Does the BPM display of the E-Mu spike when you
> send an external start and then settle down to the right external BPM?
>
>
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>
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>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'd say it confirms the problem Aaron described where there's a log 
jam of midi clock timing bytes coming from a master clock into the E-
Mu sequencer that are suddenly released.  If it is a very brief 
spike, it may not be a major problem.  Or it can cause the sound of 
a drum kit falling downstairs.

With my P2500, upgrading to OS 2.0 fixed problems related to 
incoming midi clock sync problems. (At the time, I was syncing it to 
either Cakewalk software or a Roland Intelligent Arranger.)

In my experience, OS 2.0 (external clock mode) is quite good in 
tracking the external clock.

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Davide Massussi" <davide.massussi@...> 
wrote:
>
> uh...mine does frequently.
> does it mean something?
> 
> 2006/3/11, steve_the_composer <smw-mail@...>:
> >
> > > I also have trouble getting the sequencer to start at 1.1 when
> > > using an external clock, & the arpeggiators won't run in time 
with
> > > the external clock- they run at the right tempo, but off-the-
beat.
> > > in fact, sometimes with an external clock, the first thing the 
XL-7
> > > does sounds like a drumkit being thrown down stairs.
> >
> > In the ARPS menu system, what is the MIDI START SONG setting? If 
it is
> > set to resync arps when the E-Mu gets the external start song 
byte,
> > perhaps having it not synced with the start but rather with the 
arp
> > itself key synced might give you better tracking (ie, trigger 
the arp
> > once the clock has satbilized).
> >
> > Diagnostic quesation.  Does the BPM display of the E-Mu spike 
when you
> > send an external start and then settle down to the right 
external BPM?