Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

Hi, a few months ago i bought a World Expedition ROM on e-bay and 
installed it into my command station.  It works, although I haven't 
played with every sound on it.  

Last night I was looking around at the Diagnostic Mode and for the 
first time I ran the 'Test Sound ROM' diagnostic on it.  My other ROMs 
pass the test, but the World Rom reports 'BAD BLK  4b'.   I tried re-
seating the card in a different slot and the result is the same.  
Anybody here know what's up with that?  

Thanks!
Mike

As I expected, Sound ROMs appear different to ROMplers with the P2K 
synth engine and to EOS 4.X Samplers. I am now wondering what's on 
those SIMMs.

I'm guessing, but it seems to me the SIMMS may have various "objects" 
including:
(1) samples (available to Samplers)
(2) multisamples (possible called presets on samplers)
(3) instruments (samples and multisamples available to ROMplers)
(4) presets (available to ROMplers)
(5) sequences (available to ROMplers as demo songs and riffs)

In the E5000 Sampler, my new Protozoa ROM only has samples, no 
presets. The name appears as P123 608 np. At first I thought it was 
defective, but in the ROMpler, it indeed has P2K instruments and 
presets.

As long as I had the boxes open, I tested other SIMMs (Sound ROMS). 
The XLEAD ROM (from the XL-1 turbo) appears as an Audigy ROM and has 
sampler presets as well the ROMpler presets.

I seem to recall someone (possibly Aaron), saying that the baby 
flashes on the SIMMs contain an overlay which organize the samples 
into instruments and presets.

Anyhow, all this leaves me wanting to know exactly what on the Sound 
ROMs--and why the Protozoa ROM has no sampler presets, while others 
do.  

Thanks to any who can help.

--Steve

>>As I expected, Sound ROMs appear different to ROMplers with the P2K 
synth engine and to EOS 4.X Samplers. I am now wondering what's on 
those SIMMs.
 
I'm guessing, but it seems to me the SIMMS may have various "objects" 
including:
(1) samples (available to Samplers)
(2) multisamples (possible called presets on samplers)
(3) instruments (samples and multisamples available to ROMplers)
(4) presets (available to ROMplers)
(5) sequences (available to ROMplers as demo songs and riffs)...<<

steve- you have it, I think. I don't know about the sequence data- I
never use it. 
the authoring guide from emu is all I've got to go by here, but what
actually happens in real life is that you use the sampler to create a
bunch of presets as normal, & then it writes some stuff into the "baby
flash" part of the flash stick. this enables the proteus (whatever
model) to access the preset *as an instrument*. I've watched it do
this many times.... :-)

this is one of the joys of using this technology- there's a whole heap
of stuff that you can do with the sounds once they get into the
proteus domain that the sampler just can't do. ymmv, as always.

of course, this means that the proteus presets are meaningless to the
sampler, so all you see when you put a rom into an ultra is a bunch of
proteus-instruments-as-sampler-presets. they bear little relation to
the presets you see in the proteus domain, being "just" the raw
instruments.

on another note, I've noticed that there's some sort of
copy-protection on the sounds from a rom- I tried to make a "best of"
rom for myself, using bits from several standard proteus roms. while I
could copy the sounds into an ultra, & store them on the hard drive,
make presets &c, I couldn't then author a new flash rom from them.

duncan.

Some of these objects may be just reference tables associating some of the other types.
 
Nice planning on Emu's part for the proprietary design.....

Bob
Corona/Riverside, CA

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: ferrograph632 
  To: xl7@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 7:49 AM
  Subject: [xl7] Re: What's on the Sound ROM?


  >>As I expected, Sound ROMs appear different to ROMplers with the P2K 
  synth engine and to EOS 4.X Samplers. I am now wondering what's on 
  those SIMMs.
   
  I'm guessing, but it seems to me the SIMMS may have various "objects" 
  including:
  (1) samples (available to Samplers)
  (2) multisamples (possible called presets on samplers)
  (3) instruments (samples and multisamples available to ROMplers)
  (4) presets (available to ROMplers)
  (5) sequences (available to ROMplers as demo songs and riffs)...<<

  steve- you have it, I think. I don't know about the sequence data- I
  never use it. 
  the authoring guide from emu is all I've got to go by here, but what
  actually happens in real life is that you use the sampler to create a
  bunch of presets as normal, & then it writes some stuff into the "baby
  flash" part of the flash stick. this enables the proteus (whatever
  model) to access the preset *as an instrument*. I've watched it do
  this many times.... :-)

  this is one of the joys of using this technology- there's a whole heap
  of stuff that you can do with the sounds once they get into the
  proteus domain that the sampler just can't do. ymmv, as always.

  of course, this means that the proteus presets are meaningless to the
  sampler, so all you see when you put a rom into an ultra is a bunch of
  proteus-instruments-as-sampler-presets. they bear little relation to
  the presets you see in the proteus domain, being "just" the raw
  instruments.

  on another note, I've noticed that there's some sort of
  copy-protection on the sounds from a rom- I tried to make a "best of"
  rom for myself, using bits from several standard proteus roms. while I
  could copy the sounds into an ultra, & store them on the hard drive,
  make presets &c, I couldn't then author a new flash rom from them.

  duncan.







   
  Yahoo! Groups Links



   




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have read in interest a number of the comments regarding Proteus 2000 and the Ultra. I haven't caught the whole stream of conversation , so please excuse me if I ask a few questions. 

You have shed some light on this issue for me. I also wondered if you could make a best of from the ROMs when accessed with an Ultra. I am surprised at your results, not expecting that a copyright issue might come into play. I would think Emu would make the Ultra more valuable as a product if this feature were available.There would also be continuity in their product line as well.

Is there anyone else in the group who may have had any success in copying the ROM instrument and preset information to an Ultra to produce a "best of Proteus 2000 samples"? Has anyone talked with an Emu technician about this or is Emu even fielding questions on the discontinued products?

I would think it would be a great idea if Emu or a 3rd party were to offer the Emu user the abilitiy to choose samples,  presets  etc. to create an individual ROM.

Thank you for your insight in to this issue.

Bruce

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob S. 
  To: xl7@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 11:45 AM
  Subject: Re: [xl7] Re: What's on the Sound ROM?


  Some of these objects may be just reference tables associating some of the other types.

  Nice planning on Emu's part for the proprietary design.....

  Bob
  Corona/Riverside, CA

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: ferrograph632 
    To: xl7@yahoogroups.com 
    Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 7:49 AM
    Subject: [xl7] Re: What's on the Sound ROM?


    >>As I expected, Sound ROMs appear different to ROMplers with the P2K 
    synth engine and to EOS 4.X Samplers. I am now wondering what's on 
    those SIMMs.
     
    I'm guessing, but it seems to me the SIMMS may have various "objects" 
    including:
    (1) samples (available to Samplers)
    (2) multisamples (possible called presets on samplers)
    (3) instruments (samples and multisamples available to ROMplers)
    (4) presets (available to ROMplers)
    (5) sequences (available to ROMplers as demo songs and riffs)...<<

    steve- you have it, I think. I don't know about the sequence data- I
    never use it. 
    the authoring guide from emu is all I've got to go by here, but what
    actually happens in real life is that you use the sampler to create a
    bunch of presets as normal, & then it writes some stuff into the "baby
    flash" part of the flash stick. this enables the proteus (whatever
    model) to access the preset *as an instrument*. I've watched it do
    this many times.... :-)

    this is one of the joys of using this technology- there's a whole heap
    of stuff that you can do with the sounds once they get into the
    proteus domain that the sampler just can't do. ymmv, as always.

    of course, this means that the proteus presets are meaningless to the
    sampler, so all you see when you put a rom into an ultra is a bunch of
    proteus-instruments-as-sampler-presets. they bear little relation to
    the presets you see in the proteus domain, being "just" the raw
    instruments.

    on another note, I've noticed that there's some sort of
    copy-protection on the sounds from a rom- I tried to make a "best of"
    rom for myself, using bits from several standard proteus roms. while I
    could copy the sounds into an ultra, & store them on the hard drive,
    make presets &c, I couldn't then author a new flash rom from them.

    duncan.







     
    Yahoo! Groups Links



     




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for your insights, Duncan. Your real-life sampler experiences 
help to put the puzzle together for me.  I will try to check out the 
authoring guide.

Though I am still purplexed as to why the P123 [Protozoa ROM] has no 
sampler presets on it, fortunately my package also came with the 
Proteus 4000 disk (which does have P123 samples and presets for the 
sampler, as well as vintage and orbit samples and presets).

If I had spare time, I might try to figure out the EOS preset 
structure, compare it to the P2K preset structure, and try to 
emulate some presets.  But for now, I am just trying to sketch ideas 
for building a "Good Sax" Bank where velocity switching plays a big 
role.

Thanks to others, too, for insights on the question of What Exactly 
is on the Sound ROM (and how is it structured)? Additional thoughts 
would be appreciated.

--Steve


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "ferrograph632" <goddard.duncan@...> 
wrote:

[snip]

> the authoring guide from emu is all I've got to go by here, but 
what
> actually happens in real life is that you use the sampler to 
create a
> bunch of presets as normal, & then it writes some stuff into 
the "baby
> flash" part of the flash stick. this enables the proteus (whatever
> model) to access the preset *as an instrument*. I've watched it do
> this many times.... :-)
> 
> this is one of the joys of using this technology- there's a whole 
heap
> of stuff that you can do with the sounds once they get into the
> proteus domain that the sampler just can't do.

[snip]

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Bob S." <tttsystems@...> wrote:
>
> Some of these objects may be just reference tables associating some 
of the other types.

This makes sense.

> Nice planning on Emu's part for the proprietary design.....
> 
> Bob
> Corona/Riverside, CA
>

--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Beowolf" <brujerman@...> wrote:
>
> I have read in interest a number of the comments regarding Proteus 
2000 and the Ultra. I haven't caught the whole stream of 
conversation , so please excuse me if I ask a few questions. 
> 
> You have shed some light on this issue for me. I also wondered if 
you could make a best of from the ROMs when accessed with an Ultra. 
I am surprised at your results, not expecting that a copyright issue 
might come into play. I would think Emu would make the Ultra more 
valuable as a product if this feature were available.There would 
also be continuity in their product line as well.

I suspect that this kind of thinking went into the Emulator X (and 
the Proteus X).
 
> Is there anyone else in the group who may have had any success in 
copying the ROM instrument and preset information to an Ultra to 
produce a "best of Proteus 2000 samples"? Has anyone talked with an 
Emu technician about this or is Emu even fielding questions on the 
discontinued products?

A year or so ago someone here was wanting to do something like that 
and asked members what they would like to see in a "Best of . . . " 
compiled ROM. This opened up a discussion of copyright issues. If I 
remember correctly, Sean Wilhemsen from E-Mu pointed out that E-
Mu/Creative would defends its property rights if someone started 
ripping off and marketing its [E-Mu's] samples without permission 
[my words, not his]. See 
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xl7/message/13190 and the rest 
of the discssuion.

> I would think it would be a great idea if Emu or a 3rd party were 
to offer the Emu user the abilitiy to choose samples,  presets  etc. 
to create an individual ROM.

One of the other problems raised is the high cost of burnable sound 
ROMS.  I think you can buy an Emulator X package for less.

> Thank you for your insight in to this issue.
> 
> Bruce

>>A year or so ago someone here was wanting to do something like that 
and asked members what they would like to see in a "Best of . . . " 
compiled ROM...... One of the other problems raised is the high cost
of burnable sound ROMS.<<

well, I have the flash roms, the sampler & a bunch of paid-for emu
roms, & I still can't see how they've done it, after several tries.

I want to make a compact "best of" from the sounds I use most often
from the world-expedition & vintage sets; these would go into my
virtuoso with either a protozoa or sounds of zr to make up the four. I
reckon that would be a pretty versatile proteus box!

I've done the same sort of thing with my xl-7 (he said, struggling
back onto topic!); it has it's original rom, a composer, a vintage & a
flash with my own mellotron & synth noises on it. but I don't seem to
be able to load anything onto flash that started off on one of emu's
roms unless I resample it. hmph. can't believe they were clever enough
to do DRM.
I get a "bad file size" error or somesuch- will have another
look/attempt this weekend.

duncan.

First off, thanks for referring me to the sound rom authoring 
guide.  That clarified some of what I was wanting to understand.

If I read it correctly, EOS can only author 15.9MB.  Any more than 
that and you get an error--perhaps the "bad file size" error. I 
thought the Proteus Sound ROMs (from E-Mu) had either 32 MB of sound 
data or 16 MB of sound data (as in the case of the Protozoa ROM).

Not sure if you were trying to burn > 15.9 MB. 
Not sure if the samples read into an Ultra are even the same samples 
read into a Proteus.

Also, the authoring guide (last page I think) has some tips--such as 
clearing the flash SIMM first, doing stuff in a certain order, etc.

If I get the hang of the sample (and I can find a flash SIMM), I'd 
want to do a "Best of . . ." compilation for my own use, so I'm very 
interested in seeing you succeed. I will re-read the authoring 
manual with your latest observations in mind. 

[I hope with the lack of traffic on this board (except for post by 
Mr. Link) no one minds having this conversation here.]

BTW, this AM I started compiling a spreadsheet of the EOS sysex 
editable preset parameters. My plan is to make a correspondence with 
Proteus sysex editable parameters. Not sure how close EOS presets 
can come to Proteus presets. I guess that's why when you author 
flash SIMMS for a Proteus, you need to do the presets on the Proteus.

--Steve

  
 --- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "ferrograph632" <goddard.duncan@...> 
wrote:
> well, I have the flash roms, the sampler & a bunch of paid-for emu
> roms, & I still can't see how they've done it, after several tries.
> 
> I want to make a compact "best of" from the sounds I use most often
> from the world-expedition & vintage sets; these would go into my
> virtuoso with either a protozoa or sounds of zr to make up the 
four. I
> reckon that would be a pretty versatile proteus box!
> 
> I've done the same sort of thing with my xl-7 (he said, struggling
> back onto topic!); it has it's original rom, a composer, a vintage 
& a
> flash with my own mellotron & synth noises on it. but I don't seem 
to
> be able to load anything onto flash that started off on one of 
emu's
> roms unless I resample it. hmph. can't believe they were clever 
enough

> to do DRM.
> I get a "bad file size" error or somesuch- will have another
> look/attempt this weekend.
> 
> duncan.
>