Emu XL-7 & MP-7 User's Group

Hello,

could somebody explain me why on Earth do not
sum the returns on sub outs in the SPDIF main out ?
The signal is oresent on the main analogue outs
but it is  missing from the SPDIF.
Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh ...

I'm puzzled, it's the first serious flaw I'm encountering
in the XL7, but it is very very disappointing.


Regards,

    Zsolt

Probably because that would require the sound to be digitized, and 
Command Stations don't have A/D converters (alas! I would *love* to 
pass audio through these filters!). I've read somewhere that summing 
of returns with main outs on Command Stations is passive, that is, 
returns are routed to mains even when the unit is turned off. I 
suppose it's not much of a comfort for you, but at least answers 
the "why" part...

regards,
Boris.
--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Zsolt Szabó <Zsolt.Szabo@...> wrote:

>
> Hello,
> 
> could somebody explain me why on Earth do not
> sum the returns on sub outs in the SPDIF main out ?
> The signal is oresent on the main analogue outs
> but it is  missing from the SPDIF.
> Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh ...
> 
> I'm puzzled, it's the first serious flaw I'm encountering
> in the XL7, but it is very very disappointing.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
>     Zsolt
>

Good reason.  In addition, I have several synths that have SPDIF outputs and since this is a 2 channel format, they let the user pick which two channels are to be used on that output....no summing other outs.  You can easily switch to summing all voices to the main output and routing that to the SPDIF so I don't see this as a flaw at all....just the way you happen to have set up your system......

Bob
El Segundo, CA


-----Original Message-----

>From: gutman75 <bgutman@...>
>Sent: Feb 13, 2007 10:40 AM
>To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [xl7] Re: XL7 disappointment
>
>Probably because that would require the sound to be digitized, and 
>Command Stations don't have A/D converters (alas! I would *love* to 
>pass audio through these filters!). I've read somewhere that summing 
>of returns with main outs on Command Stations is passive, that is, 
>returns are routed to mains even when the unit is turned off. I 
>suppose it's not much of a comfort for you, but at least answers 
>the "why" part...
>
>regards,
>Boris.
>--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Zsolt Szabó <Zsolt.Szabo@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> 
>> could somebody explain me why on Earth do not
>> sum the returns on sub outs in the SPDIF main out ?
>> The signal is oresent on the main analogue outs
>> but it is  missing from the SPDIF.
>> Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh ...
>> 
>> I'm puzzled, it's the first serious flaw I'm encountering
>> in the XL7, but it is very very disappointing.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>>     Zsolt
>>
>
>

Not so much a flaw as a great disappointment, as the manual doesn't
bother to mention it while touting the glory of using the sub-outs to
sum external audio sources to the main outs.  I got all excited at
first, because I thought I would be able to route my e6400 and
Morpheus back in through the sub-out returns and just have one digital
signal path to my computer, rather than having to go through various
extra analog stages (various noisy analog stages, which seem to
involve the sound card itself rather than the mixer I'm going through
to get there).

However... it does make sense from a design stand point.  The summing
to the main is analog (has to be, since the sub-out returns are
analog), after the D/A stage, so rather than doing all the work of
re-digitizing the returns from the sub-outs, they just took the pure
digital signal before it hits the D/A and route that directly to the
SPDIF.

Yes, all digital sub-outs would be another way to go (with digital
returns summed digitally into the SPDIF), but far less useful for
people without a digital in on their FX unit (or wherever the heck
they were routing the sub-outs after they leave the box)

You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the
people all of the time... especially when your parent company is more
interested in PC sound cards than in people looking for professional
instruments.


--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, "Bob S." <tttsystems@...> wrote:
>
> Good reason.  In addition, I have several synths that have SPDIF
outputs and since this is a 2 channel format, they let the user pick
which two channels are to be used on that output....no summing other
outs.  You can easily switch to summing all voices to the main output
and routing that to the SPDIF so I don't see this as a flaw at
all....just the way you happen to have set up your system......

> 
> Bob
> El Segundo, CA
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: gutman75 <bgutman@...>
> >Sent: Feb 13, 2007 10:40 AM
> >To: xl7@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [xl7] Re: XL7 disappointment
> >
> >Probably because that would require the sound to be digitized, and 
> >Command Stations don't have A/D converters (alas! I would *love* to 
> >pass audio through these filters!). I've read somewhere that summing 
> >of returns with main outs on Command Stations is passive, that is, 
> >returns are routed to mains even when the unit is turned off. I 
> >suppose it's not much of a comfort for you, but at least answers 
> >the "why" part...
> >
> >regards,
> >Boris.
> >--- In xl7@yahoogroups.com, Zsolt Szabó <Zsolt.Szabo@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >> 
> >> could somebody explain me why on Earth do not
> >> sum the returns on sub outs in the SPDIF main out ?
> >> The signal is oresent on the main analogue outs
> >> but it is  missing from the SPDIF.
> >> Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh ...
> >> 
> >> I'm puzzled, it's the first serious flaw I'm encountering
> >> in the XL7, but it is very very disappointing.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Regards,
> >> 
> >>     Zsolt
> >>
> >
> >
>

>
> Not so much a flaw as a great disappointment, as the manual doesn't
>  bother to mention it while touting the glory of using the sub-outs to
>  sum external audio sources to the main outs.

Im not sure where it says this, but im sure i remember reading it
somewhere in the manual about it not being able to do this.  That
being said, its been a while since i read it, so i could be mistaken.
I may have read it in something else.. possibly keyboard magazine's
review?


>  You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the
>  people all of the time... especially when your parent company is more
>  interested in PC sound cards than in people looking for professional
>  instruments.

Yes.  the disapearance of EMU as a hardware company that makes
instruments makes me sad :(



[zar]

On Feb 13, 2007, at 3:40 PM, vermis_rex wrote:

> You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the
> people all of the time... especially when your parent company is more
> interested in PC sound cards than in people looking for professional
> instruments.

To be fair- when the command stations were released they were very  
much geared towards the professional user.
And I think their maintained popularity and resale value confirms that.

Additionally, if you think about it- this isn't a hinderance at all.

If you're some sort of anal "clean signal" junkie, then think about  
what would happen if the command stations could do this.

a) your external sources are all analog inputs to the fx returns-
b) the xl7 A/Ds them and sends them out the SPDIF- and you pick it up  
on your computer as digital.

It's the same number of A/D conversions as summing analog in the XL7,  
then doing the conversion externally in your sound card.
This would be an advantage- as a sound card is upgradeable while the  
A/D convertors in the XL7 would not be.
I would say buy a nice cable, or a nice sound card if you don't have  
one, and be done with it.

Myself?
I don't care.
If my beats can't generate enough of a presence to make anyone  
listening not notice any -70db hum, I've got far bigger problems.

--
"Jupiter accepts your offer..."
AIM:IMFDUP

OK,

now I heard many advices, thanks.
I understand the reasons of this misbehaviour as well.
I just thought that hey, since the SPDIF is the copy of the
main analog out then this would be a must.
But obvoiusly SPDIF is the exact copy of the main bus
for INTERNAL PARTS ONLY, but the manual forgets to
mention this, or I didn't find it.

Regarding the A/D conversion:
I don't mind it. Some noise floor is OK for me.
All the equipments in this exact case connected to the Emu
are higher spec then it is. And all analog.

Regards,

    Zsolt