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Fw: [emulatorfive] E5 Status - E-mu Systems Health

Fw: [emulatorfive] E5 Status - E-mu Systems Health

2003-01-21 by David

----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: <info@...>
To: <emulatorfive@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 12:24 PM
Subject: [emulatorfive] E5 Status - E-mu Systems Health


Hi
Project Phantom (aka Emulator 5) has been further delayed and it is
unlikely to appear until mid 2003. The software sampler may get
different features as a result, especially as E-mu Systems are very
late to the software sampler market and need something to diffentiate
them in the market. A possible new feature set of advanced Z-plane
filters, RFX FX and Darwin FX utilising a new PCI "DSP" accelerator"
card would make a lot of sense. I am sure the market research shows
that a "me too" software sampler will not earn much revenue... We
will have to wait an see. The downside is that a new PCI DSP card has
to be a "closed platform", as Creative aren't too keen on open
platforms, as it exposes their technology to competition. They hate
this.

The continued developed of new hardware based products from E-mu
Systems depends on the availability of new DSP chips. Just next to
them sits the Creative ATC (Advanced echnology Centre) which is
pumping out new chips under the leadership of Dave Rossum - the
Audigy 2 recently appeared as a full 192k/24-bit "G chip". However
these chips are not so useful for pro music, even though the line
between consumer and pro markets has got very thin recently. The R
chip in the RFX was the last new chip to create a product at E-mu
Systems, it was the basis of the aborted 1998 Mantis digital mixer.
The ATC won't be building pro music chips, so E-mu have to re-use the
ATC consumer chips. They can't easily use third party chips, as
Creative would get upset. In any case there aren't many engineers at
E-mu these days..

It is therefore improbably that E-mu Systems can get hold of new
hardware, or the required R&D budget, so new Emulators are unlikely -
hence why EOS will reach a pinnacle of development at 4.8 and stop.
The hardware platform of the future is the PC/Mac with add in cards,
because of economics and consumers. Building a new digital filter
chips such as a H2 is an expensive idea.

E-mu Systems will continue to leverage the existing platforms such as
Protues 2000, and the Vintage Keys module was shown at NAMM2003, and
there is maybe 1 or 2 more evolutions to be had on this platform.
Even a new Proteus 3000 with faster processor and 24bit/192k digital
outs, is feasible on paper - it just doesn't add much for the pro
musician. The Proteus saved E-mu Systems in 1989, and it is still the
cash cow that might just see them through to 2004. A Proteus 2000 on
a PCI card is very feasible, but this still hasn't reached the
market. This could be what the E5 mutates into...

Creative own E-mu Systems, although the real reason they bought E-mu
was to get Dave Rossum and his engineering skills. In 1992 this
ownership gave birth to many fantastic products, but now its become a
real constraint. E-mu tried to broaden their product lines in the mid
1990's and failed. The current business plan appears to be a slimming
down to the basics, with a much slower rate of product development,
until the market turns up. Hence the lack of "big" announcements, an
SP12000 drum machine is never going to happen whilst Creative take
the product development decisions.

So there are two routes forward.

1)E-mu Systems remain with the Creative mothership and try and fight
a somewhat rear guard action, but find it hard to attract the
talented people and hardware needed - until.... a few sensible
acquisitions by Creative inject some momentum - say a few US based
software synth/sampler companies. This has to be done fast as Emagic
and Steinberg have already been snapped up. We could then see the
real blend of soft and hardware that I know the E-mu guys want to
deliver. However its unlikely that Creative will ever buy companies
outside its consumer area. Ensoniq was bought for its PCI interface,
NOT its music technology.

2)E-mu Systems detachs from the mothership via a Management Buy Out
and gets new financial backing. The deal would be difficult to
achieve because Creative want to own the technology patents - Rossums
hard work. The brand name, staff and library of samples are easy to
prise from Creative, but the G chip? It would have to be done on a
licensed basis, and ideally join up with a software synth/sampler
company - like Antares across the street. The new company would be
small, highly customer focused and fully aware that it was a niche
market and not a \ufffd100m revenue earner. A US version of Waldorf is
what we are taking about.

All other routes lead backwards.

Regards
Rob
The Emulator Archive
www.emulatorarchive.com








To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
emulatorfive-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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Re: [xl7] Fw: [emulatorfive] E5 Status - E-mu Systems Health

2003-01-22 by Ravi Ivan Sharma

Good post. Although it makes Rossum sound like an automaton product that works where he is focused. I take it that Dave must somehow "like" working on soundcards better than synths these days. I personally can't get too hot over a soundblaster card in comparison to a synth. But that's just me.

Ravi
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David 
  To: xl7@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:07 PM
  Subject: [xl7] Fw: [emulatorfive] E5 Status - E-mu Systems Health



  ----- Original Message -----
  From: <info@...>
  To: <emulatorfive@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 12:24 PM
  Subject: [emulatorfive] E5 Status - E-mu Systems Health


  Hi
  Project Phantom (aka Emulator 5) has been further delayed and it is
  unlikely to appear until mid 2003. The software sampler may get
  different features as a result, especially as E-mu Systems are very
  late to the software sampler market and need something to diffentiate
  them in the market. A possible new feature set of advanced Z-plane
  filters, RFX FX and Darwin FX utilising a new PCI "DSP" accelerator"
  card would make a lot of sense. I am sure the market research shows
  that a "me too" software sampler will not earn much revenue... We
  will have to wait an see. The downside is that a new PCI DSP card has
  to be a "closed platform", as Creative aren't too keen on open
  platforms, as it exposes their technology to competition. They hate
  this.

  The continued developed of new hardware based products from E-mu
  Systems depends on the availability of new DSP chips. Just next to
  them sits the Creative ATC (Advanced echnology Centre) which is
  pumping out new chips under the leadership of Dave Rossum - the
  Audigy 2 recently appeared as a full 192k/24-bit "G chip". However
  these chips are not so useful for pro music, even though the line
  between consumer and pro markets has got very thin recently. The R
  chip in the RFX was the last new chip to create a product at E-mu
  Systems, it was the basis of the aborted 1998 Mantis digital mixer.
  The ATC won't be building pro music chips, so E-mu have to re-use the
  ATC consumer chips. They can't easily use third party chips, as
  Creative would get upset. In any case there aren't many engineers at
  E-mu these days..

  It is therefore improbably that E-mu Systems can get hold of new
  hardware, or the required R&D budget, so new Emulators are unlikely -
  hence why EOS will reach a pinnacle of development at 4.8 and stop.
  The hardware platform of the future is the PC/Mac with add in cards,
  because of economics and consumers. Building a new digital filter
  chips such as a H2 is an expensive idea.

  E-mu Systems will continue to leverage the existing platforms such as
  Protues 2000, and the Vintage Keys module was shown at NAMM2003, and
  there is maybe 1 or 2 more evolutions to be had on this platform.
  Even a new Proteus 3000 with faster processor and 24bit/192k digital
  outs, is feasible on paper - it just doesn't add much for the pro
  musician. The Proteus saved E-mu Systems in 1989, and it is still the
  cash cow that might just see them through to 2004. A Proteus 2000 on
  a PCI card is very feasible, but this still hasn't reached the
  market. This could be what the E5 mutates into...

  Creative own E-mu Systems, although the real reason they bought E-mu
  was to get Dave Rossum and his engineering skills. In 1992 this
  ownership gave birth to many fantastic products, but now its become a
  real constraint. E-mu tried to broaden their product lines in the mid
  1990's and failed. The current business plan appears to be a slimming
  down to the basics, with a much slower rate of product development,
  until the market turns up. Hence the lack of "big" announcements, an
  SP12000 drum machine is never going to happen whilst Creative take
  the product development decisions.

  So there are two routes forward.

  1)E-mu Systems remain with the Creative mothership and try and fight
  a somewhat rear guard action, but find it hard to attract the
  talented people and hardware needed - until.... a few sensible
  acquisitions by Creative inject some momentum - say a few US based
  software synth/sampler companies. This has to be done fast as Emagic
  and Steinberg have already been snapped up. We could then see the
  real blend of soft and hardware that I know the E-mu guys want to
  deliver. However its unlikely that Creative will ever buy companies
  outside its consumer area. Ensoniq was bought for its PCI interface,
  NOT its music technology.

  2)E-mu Systems detachs from the mothership via a Management Buy Out
  and gets new financial backing. The deal would be difficult to
  achieve because Creative want to own the technology patents - Rossums
  hard work. The brand name, staff and library of samples are easy to
  prise from Creative, but the G chip? It would have to be done on a
  licensed basis, and ideally join up with a software synth/sampler
  company - like Antares across the street. The new company would be
  small, highly customer focused and fully aware that it was a niche
  market and not a £100m revenue earner. A US version of Waldorf is
  what we are taking about.

  All other routes lead backwards.

  Regards
  Rob
  The Emulator Archive
  www.emulatorarchive.com








  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  emulatorfive-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [xl7] Fw: [emulatorfive] E5 Status - E-mu Systems Health

2003-01-22 by Nick Rothwell

> I personally can't get too hot over a soundblaster card in
> comparison to a synth. But that's just me.

Sound Bladder cards, sure, but if you're talking about sound cards in
general, I guess you've not heard a Korg OasysPCI...

(On the other hand, there is still a working Korg Oasys prototype
keyboard; apparently, it was on display in Korg's "museum" exhibit at
NAMM.)

-- 

  nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http://www.cassiel.com

Re: [xl7] Fw: [emulatorfive] E5 Status - E-mu Systems Health

2003-01-22 by drK

On 1/21/03 7:21 PM, "Ravi Ivan Sharma" <noision1@...> wrote:

> Good post. Although it makes Rossum sound like an automaton product that works
> where he is focused. I take it that Dave must somehow "like" working on
> soundcards better than synths these days. I personally can't get too hot over
> a soundblaster card in comparison to a synth. But that's just me.
> 
> Ravi

Dave *is* Creative's chief scientist.  And he has been deeply interested in
integrated circuit design for many years now, back to the days when he
collaborated with Ron Dow to create the SSM chip line.  Since Creative is
paying the bills, and IC development is very costly, it's understandable why
he would focus in the areas the company expects to make their profit.  It is
also my understanding that he has not been involved in the Emu side of
Creative for quite some time.

Also the inexpensiveness of the Soundblaster line hides how innovative and
effective they could be as musician's tools.  The original Soundblaster AWE,
which  Dave/E-mu helped Creative with prior to the acquisition, brought
cost-effective sampling to the personal computer.  This was an ESI-class
sampler (if I recall) on a $200 ISA card.  It offered 32 voices, which were
full-fledge synth voices with filters, envelopes, LFOs and it supported up
to 32MB of sample memory.  It worked at 44.1kHz and 16-bit.  When programmed
well it sounded great (though the card's outputs were a tad below full "pro"
spec).  Unfortunately it got caught in the gravitational pull of the game
and consumer music market and except for some well informed people was
largely lost in the main-stream pro-music arena.  Most musicians looked down
on the product, probably figuring since it was a consumer game card it had
little to offer.  So using it had a bit of a stigma which was not deserved.

The successor Live line extended the above to 64 voices and included
effects.  This is pretty much a P2K on a soundcard with user sampling which
I believe could be taken beyond 64MB with some special work.  It even
offered low-cost digital I/O.  This was a $100 card that could perform the
function of a $2K sampler.

These devices had great potential for pro-use that was never fully realized.
technology was not the reason.

By any measure Dave Rossum is a giant in the history of music technology.
But for all the great innovations he brought on the synthesizer product side
he will be at least equally remembered for his contribution in the
algorithms and techniques he innovated in custom ICs, many after Creative
acquired E-mu.

drk

www.delora.com/music
www.mp3.com/zdrk
drk.iuma.com

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