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Xpanding my horizon

Xpanding my horizon

2010-02-11 by Terje Winther

Hi all,
I just subscribed to this groups, and thought I might introduce myself.
I have loved synthesizers for as long as I can remember (all the way  
back into the 1970s...). I make music with synths, repair them, and  
even build some. The Xpander and Matrix-12 are facinating instruments,  
and I have just gotten a Matrix-12 in for service, so finally I can  
take the time to learn more about these instruments. It has all the  
usual errors; one key broken, one rotary encoder mailfunctoning, auto- 
tune turns out the usual errors, but apart form that is seems to be  
mostly in order.
More about me, my music, gear and all that at:   http://www.wintherstormer.no/


Terje Winther
terje.winther@...
http://www.wintherstormer.no/

Re: Xpanding my horizon

2010-02-11 by envia94

Hello Terje, let me just welcome you!

There are a lot of interesting listening in your web page (http://www.wintherstormer.no/music.html). Thanks!

I hope you'll also find some interesting things about Xpander/M12 in our Files and Photos sections especially:

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xpantastic/files
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xpantastic/photos/album/0/list
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/xpantastic/polls

Tiitu

Re: [xpantastic] Xpanding my horizon

2010-02-12 by Karl Schmeer

Hi Terje,
Welcome to the group.  Watch out, you might get hooked, and have to acquire one for yourself.
 
You will find posts here on all the fails you mention. 
Encoder  - Clean or replace Schmidt trigger chip connected to the failed encoder
Tune Fail - Coupling Caps Usually Cx49  x = channel #
 
I have fixed quite a few of these. I am happy to offer any help.
Have Fun!
 
Kindest Regards
 
Karl Schmeer
 


--- On Thu, 2/11/10, Terje Winther <terje.winther@wintherstormer.no> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Terje Winther <terje.winther@...>
Subject: [xpantastic] Xpanding my horizon
To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 7:19 AM


  



Hi all,
I just subscribed to this groups, and thought I might introduce myself.
I have loved synthesizers for as long as I can remember (all the way 
back into the 1970s...). I make music with synths, repair them, and 
even build some. The Xpander and Matrix-12 are facinating instruments, 
and I have just gotten a Matrix-12 in for service, so finally I can 
take the time to learn more about these instruments. It has all the 
usual errors; one key broken, one rotary encoder mailfunctoning, auto- 
tune turns out the usual errors, but apart form that is seems to be 
mostly in order.
More about me, my music, gear and all that at: http://www.winthers tormer.no/

Terje Winther
terje.winther@ wintherstormer. no
http://www.winthers tormer.no/

Re: [xpantastic] Xpanding my horizon

2010-02-16 by Bill Fox

Terje Winther wrote:
> Hi all,
> I just subscribed to this groups, and thought I might introduce myself.
> I have loved synthesizers for as long as I can remember (all the way  
> back into the 1970s...). I make music with synths, repair them, and  
> even build some. The Xpander and Matrix-12 are facinating instruments,  
> and I have just gotten a Matrix-12 in for service, so finally I can  
> take the time to learn more about these instruments. It has all the  
> usual errors; one key broken, one rotary encoder mailfunctoning, auto- 
> tune turns out the usual errors, but apart form that is seems to be  
> mostly in order.
> More about me, my music, gear and all that at:   http://www.wintherstormer.no/

Hi Terje,

Welcome to the group.  Listmates, I play Terje's music on my radio 
shows.  I recommend that you take a listen to his music.

Cheers,

Bill

Re: [xpantastic] Xpanding my horizon

2010-02-23 by Terje Winther

Hi all,
I am well into the service of the Matrix-12. Surprisingly, there are a  
lot of things that works, even though it all seems a bit worn.
I am slowly learning to program this giant, so that I don´t do any  
errors out of mistakes.
There are a few hardware parts that need to be changed (a key is  
broken, the levels are scratchy, number "3" on the numeric keypad is  
not responsive etc.), but today I came across a peculiar problem: it  
seems that this unit is in 5-voice mode. Voice 6 seems to be dead, and  
the unit is just jumping over that voice when cycling voices, so there  
are never any "dead" voices. Is this some clever trick of the logic,  
or has the synth itself detected that one voice is dead?
It does sound fat, though  :-)

Terje Winther
terje.winther@...
http://www.wintherstormer.no/

Re: [xpantastic] Xpanding my horizon

2010-02-23 by Karl Schmeer

Hi Terje,
 
Sounds like he has one voice turned off. 
 
Push these buttons to access this:
Master Page> Page 2 >  Voices On/Off
 
Each voice can be turned on or off here. Odds are good, that the voice turned off, is malfunctioning,   
Good Luck
 
Karl Schmeer


--- On Tue, 2/23/10, Terje Winther <terje.winther@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Terje Winther <terje.winther@...>
Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Xpanding my horizon
To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 2:01 PM


  



Hi all,
I am well into the service of the Matrix-12. Surprisingly, there are a 
lot of things that works, even though it all seems a bit worn.
I am slowly learning to program this giant, so that I don´t do any 
errors out of mistakes.
There are a few hardware parts that need to be changed (a key is 
broken, the levels are scratchy, number "3" on the numeric keypad is 
not responsive etc.), but today I came across a peculiar problem: it 
seems that this unit is in 5-voice mode. Voice 6 seems to be dead, and 
the unit is just jumping over that voice when cycling voices, so there 
are never any "dead" voices. Is this some clever trick of the logic, 
or has the synth itself detected that one voice is dead?
It does sound fat, though :-)

Terje Winther
terje.winther@ wintherstormer. no
http://www.winthers tormer.no/

Re: [xpantastic] Xpanding my horizon

2010-02-28 by Terje Winther

Hi all, and thanks for all the input regarding the Matrix-12 repair  
that I am doing.
The unit is in very good shape and sounds good. Among other things all  
the displays are fine, panel is good, wooden sides are in fine shape,  
and all keys (except one broken) looks good.
There are some trouble manuvering the synth, as several buttons don´t  
respond. It was kind of dirty before I started working on it, so I  
guess several of the buttons needs to be cleaned, as I had to do with  
they keys (both keytops and key contacts).

I have run across some various interesting failures:
- One voice is dead, and I have pinpointed this to the fact that the  
VCA output (leg no. 14) of the CEM3372 is dead. All else on the chips  
works as it should; inputs, VCF sections and all. It is just the VCA  
that is gone. Usually when a CEM chip fails it is completely dead, so  
this was a puzzle for me. Swapping chips with other voices turns it  
into a working voice. So a new chip is needed here, then.
- The rotary encoders all work, thankfully. It is just the Schmidt  
trigger chips that seems to mailfunction, just as Karl Schmeer  
suggested (thanks!). If I rotate the encoder with a very specific  
speed - slowly, but not too slowly - I can make it increase somewhat,  
but it is difficult. Reducing with the same encoder is no problem.  
Need new chips probably, or maybe just clean up?

Then the real problems:
- Only voices 1-6 can be heard. Internally all voices (both 1-6 and  
7-12) seems to work fine (I can scope it all). This might be connected  
to the next problem...
- The "Voices 1-6 / Voices 7-12" button is unresponsive, so I have no  
way to see if the second voice board is turned off or not. Are there  
any workaround for this?
- Unresponsive buttons. How do you usually solve this? Clean them, or  
change them? It seems to me that there are standard momentary buttons  
underneath the large black front panel buttons.

The power supply have a fairly high physical hum, so at one point it  
probably needs to be changed. The internal power is stable, but a  
little bit off spec, like +12.1 and -11.82. Is this to much off? I  
hope not, because that means I have to rebuild the whole power, with  
new regulator transistors and all.

Terje Winther
terje.winther@...
http://www.wintherstormer.no/

Re: [xpantastic] Xpanding my horizon

2010-03-01 by Karl Schmeer

Hi Terje,

--- On Sun, 2/28/10, Terje Winther <terje.winther@wintherstormer.no> wrote:
>From: Terje Winther <terje.winther@...>
>Subject: Re: [xpantastic] Xpanding my horizon
>To: xpantastic@yahoogroups.com
>Date: Sunday, February 28, 2010, 9:16 AM
>Hi all, and thanks for all the input regarding the Matrix-12 repair 
>that I am doing.
>The unit is in very good shape and sounds good. Among other things all 
>the displays are fine, panel is good, wooden sides are in fine shape, 
>and all keys (except one broken) looks good.
>There are some trouble manuvering the synth, as several buttons don´t 
>respond. It was kind of dirty before I started working on it, so I 
>guess several of the buttons needs to be cleaned, as I had to do with 
>they keys (both keytops and key contacts).

Good idea, you also might swing out the displays ( board is hinged ) and clean the 
glass of the VFD's as well as the front panel bezel.  It can really spiff it up.

>I have run across some various interesting failures:
>- One voice is dead, and I have pinpointed this to the fact that the 
>VCA output (leg no. 14) of the CEM3372 is dead. All else on the chips 
>works as it should; inputs, VCF sections and all. It is just the VCA 
>that is gone. Usually when a CEM chip fails it is completely dead, so 
>this was a puzzle for me. Swapping chips with other voices turns it 
>into a working voice. So a new chip is needed here, then.

You can still find those.

>- The rotary encoders all work, thankfully. It is just the Schmidt 
>trigger chips that seems to mailfunction, just as Karl Schmeer 
>suggested (thanks!). If I rotate the encoder with a very specific 
>speed - slowly, but not too slowly - I can make it increase somewhat, 
>but it is difficult. Reducing with the same encoder is no problem. 
>Need new chips probably, or maybe just clean up?
Thanx
That is exactly the symptom I had.  I thought the encoaders were dirty but a little checking with a scope 
revealed a distoted output of the trigger chip.
I used 74HC14 chip. You can get them for cheap.
I Changed out U6 and U13 on the potentiometer board. Its faster than taking the
encoaders apart and cleaning them but you may have to do this anyway.  

> Then the real problems:
> - Only voices 1-6 can be heard. Internally all voices (both 1-6 and 
> 7-12) seems to work fine (I can scope it all). This might be connected 

Question: when you say unresponsive, I imagine you mean the voices can not be heard,
but what about the little green dots on the display?  There are dots that show which 
voices are being played on the Programmer display.  Do these not light up?

> to the next problem...
> - The "Voices 1-6 / Voices 7-12" button is unresponsive, so I have no 
> way to see if the second voice board is turned off or not. Are there 
> any workaround for this?

You may know this already but, That button is only active in multi mode. 

The buttons are just momentary push buttons.  You could solder another pushbutton ( Normally open)
in it's place, on the bottom of the board with long extension wires.
This would be a temporary fix,  just so you can access voices 7 - 12.

I can think of a some reasons the upper voices (7 - 12)  would not play:

I am going on the  assumption that all voices are set to the same patch. 
A patch could have a VCA mod by a footswitch residing in voices 7 - 12, causing them to be mute.   

1) Voices 7 - 12 turned off in master page.
2) Voices 7 - 12 Pan setting to off. ( in the master page)   

> - Unresponsive buttons. How do you usually solve this? Clean them, or 
> change them? It seems to me that there are standard momentary buttons 
> underneath the large black front panel buttons.

I have had some luck with cleaning them but replacement is better. They used to be readily available,
but not so much anymore. I need to replace some of mine, to tell you the truth but
still need to find a modern part number. 
Anyone?

>The power supply have a fairly high physical hum, so at one point it 
>probably needs to be changed. The internal power is stable, but a 
>little bit off spec, like +12.1 and -11.82. Is this to much off? I 
>hope not, because that means I have to rebuild the whole power, with 
>new regulator transistors and all.

I have seen the transformer cause hum like this. It is not failed, the metal plates of the transformer have come loose  
and vibrate with the line frequency. There is no fix short of replacing the transformer.

The voltages sound close enough to be OK. If you scope it and there is no appreciable ripple < 50 mv
the power supply is probobly OK.  
BTW  It might not be a  bad idea to the power supply. The electrolytic caps in the power supply get the most abuse, And are the most likly thing to fail "in anything electronic". 


Best Luck

Karl Schmeer

Re: [xpantastic] Xpanding my horizon

2010-04-14 by Terje Winther

Hi all, and thanks for all the help regarding fixing the M12.
I am slowly progressing:
- Now all voices, both 1-6 and 7-12 works (apart from one voice), but  
it still doesn´t tune properly. Massive sounds from 11 VCOs though  :-)
- I found a strange repeating ripple of approx. 100 - 150 mV from the  
power supply. It looks (on the scope) like two ripples rather close,  
then an interval, and then the two ripples repeat again, all  
microseconds apart. I´ve read in the archives that this could be  
enough to throw off the auto-tune process, so I better recap the power  
supply, right? There usual hum from the transformer is a bit loud, but  
I have heard many synths with loud transformers, so I am not going to  
do anything about that.
- All keys work again, although some needs to be cleaned properly  
(they are intermittent)
- All encoders work, but one is way too slow, so I probably need a  
complete new set of chips for that one
- Still a few buttons that don´t work properly (I have to push  
repeatedly and/or hard to get it working), but I now know there is  
nothing electronically wrong, just a tired switch underneath.

- The voice still missing puzzles me: I thought I traced the error to  
a broken CEM3372 (the filter part works, but the VCA part seems to be  
broken). So voice 6 is dead, but if I swap the CEM3372 between, say,  
voice 5 and 6, then voice 5 becomes dead and voice 6 starts working.  
So I got a fistful of CEM3372s (12 actually) from  
Technologytransplant, but they don´t work, or the M12 doesn´t like the  
fact that the "new" CEM is from another date stamp. Any ideas?

- I also started cleaning the synth - following the tip to clean up  
the inside of the display window as well


Terje Winther
terje.winther@...
http://www.wintherstormer.no/

Re: [xpantastic] Xpanding my horizon

2010-04-15 by Karl Schmeer

Hi Terje,
 
Nice work on the M12.  

--- On Wed, 4/14/10, Terje Winther <terje.winther@...> wrote:

>- I found a strange repeating ripple of approx. 100 - 150 mV from the 
>power supply. It looks (on the scope) like two ripples rather close, 
>then an interval, and then the two ripples repeat again, all 
>microseconds apart. I´ve read in the archives that this could be 
>enough to throw off the auto-tune process, so I better recap the power 
>supply, right? 

When I posted that, I should have stated low frequency (60 Hz) ripple
usually seen with a voltmeter. If you are using a scope you will see
lots of digital noise on the rails from the 30 Khz switching power supply 
output. ( 1/30 KHz = 30 uS ) I think this is what you are seeing. 
And it is normal and too high a frequency to be heard.
I would be willing to bet the tuning errors are caused by the 
Coupling Caps at the output of each voice. 2.2 uF 50VDC is the value
PC board reference number Cx49  ( x = Voice number).

Not that recaping the power supply is a bad idea. It would be good in the long run, however the coupling caps are the more likely culprit. 


>- The voice still missing puzzles me: I thought I traced the error to 
>a broken CEM3372 (the filter part works, but the VCA part seems to be 
>broken). So voice 6 is dead, but if I swap the CEM3372 between, say, 
>voice 5 and 6, then voice 5 becomes dead and voice 6 starts working. 
>So I got a fistful of CEM3372s (12 actually) from 
>Technologytransplan t, but they don´t work, or the M12 doesn´t like the 
>fact that the "new" CEM is from another date stamp. Any ideas?

That is strange. I do not know of anyone who has puchased from Tech Transplant, so I have no track record to work with there.

some thoughts:

Will a newly purchased 3372 work in one of the other voices? I supose there could still be something wrong with voice 6.

Did you try retuning VCF/VCA's after changing out the part? In theory
this would calibrate out any differences between individual chips.

It does not make any sense that a newer/different date chip would not work at all. More likly there would be tracking errors or offsets.

Best Luck

Karl Schmeer

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