200e

hello,

after reading most of the posts in the archive I've come to understand
that the falling edge of a pulse with a max level > 10V serves as a
trigger (leading me to believe that this trigger pulse must have a
very short duration). Has anyone in the group successfully triggered a
281e from a Serge? I have read that someone uses a TKB with his
Buchla, but I am not sure how you would get a trigger to the Buchla
that is in sync with other envelopes in the Serge when these are
triggered on the rising edge whereas the Buchla triggers in the
falling edge... 

thank you for your help,

J

Who said Buchlas trigger on the falling edge of a trigger? A 281 has a
switch to select between AD and AR responses. What's happening when
that switch is thrown is that the level is being shifted so that the
input comparator is responding to either the 10 volt spike at the
beginning or the 5 volt gate (with duration). The length of the spike
at the beginning of a Buchla pulse is very short, but that really has
no bearing on the speed of the triggering. I would worry more about
the Serge sending out 5 volt gates. With those, you should be unable
to use the AR mode on the 281.


Mark





--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "jjsynth" <jjsynth@...> wrote:

>
> hello,
> 
> after reading most of the posts in the archive I've come to understand
> that the falling edge of a pulse with a max level > 10V serves as a
> trigger (leading me to believe that this trigger pulse must have a
> very short duration). Has anyone in the group successfully triggered a
> 281e from a Serge? I have read that someone uses a TKB with his
> Buchla, but I am not sure how you would get a trigger to the Buchla
> that is in sync with other envelopes in the Serge when these are
> triggered on the rising edge whereas the Buchla triggers in the
> falling edge... 
> 
> thank you for your help,
> 
> J
>

falling edge: that i extrapolated from a post by ezra buchla (msg
#618) where he explains about pulses used for clocking a sequencer. he
wrote: ... you could also use an analog pulse as a clock any voltage
with a
(>=10v) -> (<10v) transition will work as long as the voltage source
and the 200e share a ground. ... which I interpreted as triggering on
the falling edge of the pulse. But maybe I'm completely wrong, that's
why I asked.

regards,

J


--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Verbos" <verbos2002@...> wrote:

>
> Who said Buchlas trigger on the falling edge of a trigger? A 281 has a
> switch to select between AD and AR responses. What's happening when
> that switch is thrown is that the level is being shifted so that the
> input comparator is responding to either the 10 volt spike at the
> beginning or the 5 volt gate (with duration). The length of the spike
> at the beginning of a Buchla pulse is very short, but that really has
> no bearing on the speed of the triggering. I would worry more about
> the Serge sending out 5 volt gates. With those, you should be unable
> to use the AR mode on the 281.
> 
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "jjsynth" <jjsynth@> wrote:
> >
> > hello,
> > 
> > after reading most of the posts in the archive I've come to understand
> > that the falling edge of a pulse with a max level > 10V serves as a
> > trigger (leading me to believe that this trigger pulse must have a
> > very short duration). Has anyone in the group successfully triggered a
> > 281e from a Serge? I have read that someone uses a TKB with his
> > Buchla, but I am not sure how you would get a trigger to the Buchla
> > that is in sync with other envelopes in the Serge when these are
> > triggered on the rising edge whereas the Buchla triggers in the
> > falling edge... 
> > 
> > thank you for your help,
> > 
> > J
> >
>

Serge spec calls for a 5 volt gate. That said, there are some modules
that just shoot a comparator to the positive rail and call it a gate,
like the middle of a SSG. However, in the case of a TKB you would most
likely have to mod it to send out a hotter gate.

Mark






--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "ezra buchla" <ezra.buchla@...> wrote:
>
> hm... i think i said that backwards in the old post. it was true for
> whatever i was actually looking at, which may have been an original
> 281,  or maybe some weird flavor of 249e.
> 
> BUT the 200e spec says that pulses are triggered on the rising edge of
> the 10v transient pulse. (lo -> hi transition); that said, i'm not
> totally sure that this is how pulse detection is implemented on all
> modules. it's unlikely we would notice if it was backwards because the
> 10v transients are so very very short.
> 
> if you are actually using a pulse generator where the 10v segments are
> long enough that it makes a difference, then you should be able to
> discern the 2__e-s behavior from that setup.
> if you can't discern the behavior, it's probably a moot point.
> if you can, and it's negative-edge triggered, that's technically a
> bug, and could be fixed pretty easily (in firmware).
> 
> i don't really know what serge pulses look like... if they don't go at
> least above 8v, they will not be recognized as pulses by 200e modules.
> 
> -eb
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 1:53 PM, jjsynth <jjsynth@...> wrote:
> > falling edge: that i extrapolated from a post by ezra buchla (msg
> > #618) where he explains about pulses used for clocking a sequencer. he
> > wrote: ... you could also use an analog pulse as a clock any voltage
> > with a
> > (>=10v) -> (<10v) transition will work as long as the voltage source
> > and the 200e share a ground. ... which I interpreted as triggering on
> > the falling edge of the pulse. But maybe I'm completely wrong, that's
> > why I asked.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > J
> >
> > --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Verbos" <verbos2002@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Who said Buchlas trigger on the falling edge of a trigger? A 281
has a
> >> switch to select between AD and AR responses. What's happening when
> >> that switch is thrown is that the level is being shifted so that the
> >> input comparator is responding to either the 10 volt spike at the
> >> beginning or the 5 volt gate (with duration). The length of the spike
> >> at the beginning of a Buchla pulse is very short, but that really has
> >> no bearing on the speed of the triggering. I would worry more about
> >> the Serge sending out 5 volt gates. With those, you should be unable
> >> to use the AR mode on the 281.
> >>
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "jjsynth" <jjsynth@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > hello,
> >> >
> >> > after reading most of the posts in the archive I've come to
understand
> >> > that the falling edge of a pulse with a max level > 10V serves as a
> >> > trigger (leading me to believe that this trigger pulse must have a
> >> > very short duration). Has anyone in the group successfully
triggered a

> >> > 281e from a Serge? I have read that someone uses a TKB with his
> >> > Buchla, but I am not sure how you would get a trigger to the Buchla
> >> > that is in sync with other envelopes in the Serge when these are
> >> > triggered on the rising edge whereas the Buchla triggers in the
> >> > falling edge...
> >> >
> >> > thank you for your help,
> >> >
> >> > J
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>

on this group, we are generally talking about 200e modules...

the 281e reads pulse inputs digitally. it uses a built-in comparator
on the cpu. my guess is that it will trigger on lo-hi transitions, but
i have neither a datasheet nor a module in front of me t confirm that.

eb

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 11:27 AM, Mark Verbos <verbos2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Who said Buchlas trigger on the falling edge of a trigger? A 281 has a
> switch to select between AD and AR responses. What's happening when
> that switch is thrown is that the level is being shifted so that the
> input comparator is responding to either the 10 volt spike at the
> beginning or the 5 volt gate (with duration). The length of the spike
> at the beginning of a Buchla pulse is very short, but that really has
> no bearing on the speed of the triggering. I would worry more about
> the Serge sending out 5 volt gates. With those, you should be unable
> to use the AR mode on the 281.
>
> Mark
>
> --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "jjsynth" <jjsynth@...> wrote:
>>
>> hello,
>>
>> after reading most of the posts in the archive I've come to understand
>> that the falling edge of a pulse with a max level > 10V serves as a
>> trigger (leading me to believe that this trigger pulse must have a
>> very short duration). Has anyone in the group successfully triggered a
>> 281e from a Serge? I have read that someone uses a TKB with his
>> Buchla, but I am not sure how you would get a trigger to the Buchla
>> that is in sync with other envelopes in the Serge when these are
>> triggered on the rising edge whereas the Buchla triggers in the
>> falling edge...
>>
>> thank you for your help,
>>
>> J
>>
>
>

hm... i think i said that backwards in the old post. it was true for
whatever i was actually looking at, which may have been an original
281,  or maybe some weird flavor of 249e.

BUT the 200e spec says that pulses are triggered on the rising edge of
the 10v transient pulse. (lo -> hi transition); that said, i'm not
totally sure that this is how pulse detection is implemented on all
modules. it's unlikely we would notice if it was backwards because the
10v transients are so very very short.

if you are actually using a pulse generator where the 10v segments are
long enough that it makes a difference, then you should be able to
discern the 2__e-s behavior from that setup.
if you can't discern the behavior, it's probably a moot point.
if you can, and it's negative-edge triggered, that's technically a
bug, and could be fixed pretty easily (in firmware).

i don't really know what serge pulses look like... if they don't go at
least above 8v, they will not be recognized as pulses by 200e modules.

-eb

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 1:53 PM, jjsynth <jjsynth@yahoo.com> wrote:
> falling edge: that i extrapolated from a post by ezra buchla (msg
> #618) where he explains about pulses used for clocking a sequencer. he
> wrote: ... you could also use an analog pulse as a clock any voltage
> with a
> (>=10v) -> (<10v) transition will work as long as the voltage source
> and the 200e share a ground. ... which I interpreted as triggering on
> the falling edge of the pulse. But maybe I'm completely wrong, that's
> why I asked.
>
> regards,
>
> J
>
> --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Verbos" <verbos2002@...> wrote:
>>
>> Who said Buchlas trigger on the falling edge of a trigger? A 281 has a
>> switch to select between AD and AR responses. What's happening when
>> that switch is thrown is that the level is being shifted so that the
>> input comparator is responding to either the 10 volt spike at the
>> beginning or the 5 volt gate (with duration). The length of the spike
>> at the beginning of a Buchla pulse is very short, but that really has
>> no bearing on the speed of the triggering. I would worry more about
>> the Serge sending out 5 volt gates. With those, you should be unable
>> to use the AR mode on the 281.
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "jjsynth" <jjsynth@> wrote:
>> >
>> > hello,
>> >
>> > after reading most of the posts in the archive I've come to understand
>> > that the falling edge of a pulse with a max level > 10V serves as a
>> > trigger (leading me to believe that this trigger pulse must have a
>> > very short duration). Has anyone in the group successfully triggered a
>> > 281e from a Serge? I have read that someone uses a TKB with his
>> > Buchla, but I am not sure how you would get a trigger to the Buchla
>> > that is in sync with other envelopes in the Serge when these are
>> > triggered on the rising edge whereas the Buchla triggers in the
>> > falling edge...
>> >
>> > thank you for your help,
>> >
>> > J
>> >
>>
>
>

Ok,

thank you for the explanation. One more question though: how does gate
work? is a gate that rises to 10V and stays there sufficient for
triggering and gating an evenlope with sustain? I guess I would lose
the possiblity to retrigger a sustained envelope but apart from that,
would it work?

regards,

j
--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "ezra buchla" <ezra.buchla@...> wrote:
>
> hm... i think i said that backwards in the old post. it was true for
> whatever i was actually looking at, which may have been an original
> 281,  or maybe some weird flavor of 249e.
> 
> BUT the 200e spec says that pulses are triggered on the rising edge of
> the 10v transient pulse. (lo -> hi transition); that said, i'm not
> totally sure that this is how pulse detection is implemented on all
> modules. it's unlikely we would notice if it was backwards because the
> 10v transients are so very very short.
> 
> if you are actually using a pulse generator where the 10v segments are
> long enough that it makes a difference, then you should be able to
> discern the 2__e-s behavior from that setup.
> if you can't discern the behavior, it's probably a moot point.
> if you can, and it's negative-edge triggered, that's technically a
> bug, and could be fixed pretty easily (in firmware).
> 
> i don't really know what serge pulses look like... if they don't go at
> least above 8v, they will not be recognized as pulses by 200e modules.
> 
> -eb
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 1:53 PM, jjsynth <jjsynth@...> wrote:
> > falling edge: that i extrapolated from a post by ezra buchla (msg
> > #618) where he explains about pulses used for clocking a sequencer. he
> > wrote: ... you could also use an analog pulse as a clock any voltage
> > with a
> > (>=10v) -> (<10v) transition will work as long as the voltage source
> > and the 200e share a ground. ... which I interpreted as triggering on
> > the falling edge of the pulse. But maybe I'm completely wrong, that's
> > why I asked.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > J
> >
> > --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Verbos" <verbos2002@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Who said Buchlas trigger on the falling edge of a trigger? A 281
has a
> >> switch to select between AD and AR responses. What's happening when
> >> that switch is thrown is that the level is being shifted so that the
> >> input comparator is responding to either the 10 volt spike at the
> >> beginning or the 5 volt gate (with duration). The length of the spike
> >> at the beginning of a Buchla pulse is very short, but that really has
> >> no bearing on the speed of the triggering. I would worry more about
> >> the Serge sending out 5 volt gates. With those, you should be unable
> >> to use the AR mode on the 281.
> >>
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "jjsynth" <jjsynth@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > hello,
> >> >
> >> > after reading most of the posts in the archive I've come to
understand
> >> > that the falling edge of a pulse with a max level > 10V serves as a
> >> > trigger (leading me to believe that this trigger pulse must have a
> >> > very short duration). Has anyone in the group successfully
triggered a

> >> > 281e from a Serge? I have read that someone uses a TKB with his
> >> > Buchla, but I am not sure how you would get a trigger to the Buchla
> >> > that is in sync with other envelopes in the Serge when these are
> >> > triggered on the rising edge whereas the Buchla triggers in the
> >> > falling edge...
> >> >
> >> > thank you for your help,
> >> >
> >> > J
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>