200e

o.k. after i get no response on my emails to Don i have to write here.
And after i get no help here i will spreed out on the whole Internet.

I just want to know if i am the only one who get a used System? 

After my 200e arrived i found out that most of the Moduls are used one.
Checking the date of service shows me that there where build in 2007.
Looks like they where on a Exhibition or used by are Studio for some
time. They are a lot of scratches on the Modules and on the Wood case.

My first Email got a response that says "

Thanks for pointing out the handling marks on your system.  We will
re-emphasize the need for careful handling to our testers.

The appearance of a bit of use is quite accurate.  Your instrument has
been subjected to many days of field testing, as are all of our
instruments.  None of your modules are "second hand".

Sorry about the minor blemishes.  We'll  try to do better.

Cheers,

Don Buchla "

I can only say that my Buchla looks very used and it is dirty. Also if
it was field tested why are one poti do not work correct?


Kai

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3148/2638905508_53bcc3fc25_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3053/2638905388_8ded775fd0_o_d.jpg

i can upload more if you want.





--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, amnesia <amni56@...> wrote:
>
> Photos?
> 
> kai200e wrote:
> >
> > o.k. after i get no response on my emails to Don i have to write here.
> > And after i get no help here i will spreed out on the whole Internet.
> >
> > I just want to know if i am the only one who get a used System?
> >
> > After my 200e arrived i found out that most of the Moduls are used
one.

> > Checking the date of service shows me that there where build in 2007.
> > Looks like they where on a Exhibition or used by are Studio for some
> > time. They are a lot of scratches on the Modules and on the Wood case.
> >
> > My first Email got a response that says "
> >
> > Thanks for pointing out the handling marks on your system. We will
> > re-emphasize the need for careful handling to our testers.
> >
> > The appearance of a bit of use is quite accurate. Your instrument has
> > been subjected to many days of field testing, as are all of our
> > instruments. None of your modules are "second hand".
> >
> > Sorry about the minor blemishes. We'll try to do better.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Don Buchla "
> >
> > I can only say that my Buchla looks very used and it is dirty. Also if
> > it was field tested why are one poti do not work correct?
> >
> > Kai
> >
> >
>

Photos?

kai200e wrote:

>
> o.k. after i get no response on my emails to Don i have to write here.
> And after i get no help here i will spreed out on the whole Internet.
>
> I just want to know if i am the only one who get a used System?
>
> After my 200e arrived i found out that most of the Moduls are used one.
> Checking the date of service shows me that there where build in 2007.
> Looks like they where on a Exhibition or used by are Studio for some
> time. They are a lot of scratches on the Modules and on the Wood case.
>
> My first Email got a response that says "
>
> Thanks for pointing out the handling marks on your system. We will
> re-emphasize the need for careful handling to our testers.
>
> The appearance of a bit of use is quite accurate. Your instrument has
> been subjected to many days of field testing, as are all of our
> instruments. None of your modules are "second hand".
>
> Sorry about the minor blemishes. We'll try to do better.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Don Buchla "
>
> I can only say that my Buchla looks very used and it is dirty. Also if
> it was field tested why are one poti do not work correct?
>
> Kai
>
>

I wouldn't worry about it --- we're not talking  modern factory  
conditions here. Mine has a couple of scratches on wood too and I  
noticed the dated test tag on one of the modules (inside) was not   
exactly 'new'.

I find the 200e very idiosyncratic and do sometimes wonder if various  
modules are working properly, but overall I trust and accept that is  
just how they are designed. The upside is the incredible sounds the  
thing can make and in ways other synthesizers couldn't -- or wouldn't  
-- do. It doesn't happen every time, but often I am completely blown  
away by it.

If you value a Buchla machine then a large part of that is the unique  
creative brain that invented it - and part of that is a pretty  
homespun and non-streamlined production operation.

I really don't think you've been cheated or sold any kind of deficient  
or 'used' equipment. To me, the scratches remind me I have something  
totally unique and rare.







On 5-Jul-08, at 1:22 AM, kai200e wrote:

> o.k. after i get no response on my emails to Don i have to write here.
> And after i get no help here i will spreed out on the whole Internet.
>
> I just want to know if i am the only one who get a used System?
>
> After my 200e arrived i found out that most of the Moduls are used  
> one.
> Checking the date of service shows me that there where build in 2007.
> Looks like they where on a Exhibition or used by are Studio for some
> time. They are a lot of scratches on the Modules and on the Wood case.
>
> My first Email got a response that says "
>
> Thanks for pointing out the handling marks on your system. We will
> re-emphasize the need for careful handling to our testers.
>
> The appearance of a bit of use is quite accurate. Your instrument has
> been subjected to many days of field testing, as are all of our
> instruments. None of your modules are "second hand".
>
> Sorry about the minor blemishes. We'll try to do better.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Don Buchla "
>
> I can only say that my Buchla looks very used and it is dirty. Also if
> it was field tested why are one poti do not work correct?
>
> Kai
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A couple of thoughts here too. First, I can totally understand your concern especially given the cost and probable anticipation, but it does seem like you are getting responses from Buchla & Associates, they are sending you emails. Have you requested to arrange warranty care?

Secondly, second hand would imply prior ownership, not prior use or burn in. Restock or even remanufacture become very complex business judgement calls, and are very different than selling an previously bought and used device as new.
The marred jack could have even arrived that way from the distributor, encoders can be defective, etc.

Dhymitruy makes several real important points, smaller custom shops have miniscule profit margins to bury for example a flawed jack, let alone offering exhaustive zero fault QC services, or super efficient inventory control, etc. What Buchla  does offer is an extraordinarily unique instrument with unriveled design built with very high quality parts.
I could even compare the situation when my place of work purchased a never used SSL 4000G from the manufacturer, it came out of the box with a blown mic pre(btw, unrelated to anything, nearly all the ICs and transistors in the SSL 4000 are in sockets, I think they assume a degree of failure!) and a handful of blown lamps. We bought a faulty from the box Manley EQ, I think either a bad switch or solder joint. We got it cleared up, these machines are performing wonderfully.
Of course this kind of thing can happen with HP or Apple too.
I really think you'll be able to get them to take care of you at Buchla, 
just work with them, try to relax, this instrument is worth it.
And try and enjoy your 200e, nothing else sounds like it!
Don


--- On Sat, 7/5/08, Dhymitruy Bouryiotis <da108@telus.net> wrote:

> From: Dhymitruy Bouryiotis <da108@telus.net>
> Subject: Re: [200e] Don selling 2nd Hand Gear as New?
> To: 200e@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, July 5, 2008, 8:44 AM
> I wouldn't worry about it --- we're not talking 
> modern factory  
> conditions here. Mine has a couple of scratches on wood too
> and I  
> noticed the dated test tag on one of the modules (inside)
> was not   
> exactly 'new'.
> 
> I find the 200e very idiosyncratic and do sometimes wonder
> if various  
> modules are working properly, but overall I trust and
> accept that is  
> just how they are designed. The upside is the incredible
> sounds the  
> thing can make and in ways other synthesizers couldn't
> -- or wouldn't  
> -- do. It doesn't happen every time, but often I am
> completely blown  
> away by it.
> 
> If you value a Buchla machine then a large part of that is
> the unique  
> creative brain that invented it - and part of that is a
> pretty  
> homespun and non-streamlined production operation.
> 
> I really don't think you've been cheated or sold
> any kind of deficient  
> or 'used' equipment. To me, the scratches remind me
> I have something  
> totally unique and rare.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 5-Jul-08, at 1:22 AM, kai200e wrote:
> 
> > o.k. after i get no response on my emails to Don i
> have to write here.
> > And after i get no help here i will spreed out on the
> whole Internet.
> >
> > I just want to know if i am the only one who get a
> used System?
> >
> > After my 200e arrived i found out that most of the
> Moduls are used  
> > one.
> > Checking the date of service shows me that there where
> build in 2007.
> > Looks like they where on a Exhibition or used by are
> Studio for some
> > time. They are a lot of scratches on the Modules and
> on the Wood case.
> >
> > My first Email got a response that says "
> >
> > Thanks for pointing out the handling marks on your
> system. We will
> > re-emphasize the need for careful handling to our
> testers.
> >
> > The appearance of a bit of use is quite accurate. Your
> instrument has
> > been subjected to many days of field testing, as are
> all of our
> > instruments. None of your modules are "second
> hand".
> >
> > Sorry about the minor blemishes. We'll try to do
> better.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Don Buchla "
> >
> > I can only say that my Buchla looks very used and it
> is dirty. Also if
> > it was field tested why are one poti do not work
> correct?
> >
> > Kai
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have to side with Kai. It doesn't matter how small or unique an operation is, a product 
sold as 'New' should not only be in unused condition, but also look it. It's very possible 
that the scratch on the wood panel could have happened during the testing/building 
process, but that jack looks VERY used. It's way beyond a blemish from the factory. I'd like 
to see more pictures if possible. 

True, the 200e is an incredible system, but that in no way justifies putting up with 
receiving beat up modules, especially considering the amount of money involved.

Gus


--- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "kai200e" <kai200e@...> wrote:

>
> o.k. after i get no response on my emails to Don i have to write here.
> And after i get no help here i will spreed out on the whole Internet.
> 
> I just want to know if i am the only one who get a used System? 
> 
> After my 200e arrived i found out that most of the Moduls are used one.
> Checking the date of service shows me that there where build in 2007.
> Looks like they where on a Exhibition or used by are Studio for some
> time. They are a lot of scratches on the Modules and on the Wood case.
> 
> My first Email got a response that says "
> 
> Thanks for pointing out the handling marks on your system.  We will
> re-emphasize the need for careful handling to our testers.
> 
> The appearance of a bit of use is quite accurate.  Your instrument has
> been subjected to many days of field testing, as are all of our
> instruments.  None of your modules are "second hand".
> 
> Sorry about the minor blemishes.  We'll  try to do better.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Don Buchla "
> 
> I can only say that my Buchla looks very used and it is dirty. Also if
> it was field tested why are one poti do not work correct?
> 
> 
> Kai
>

hello kai

you have not been sold second-hand modules. we don't have any. there
has been one restocked system that i'm aware of since the 200e's
launch; that was a couple years ago, and when we got it back it was
the cleanest looking thing in the shop.

the tags represent the date the hardware was tested after it was
assembled and given its first firmware. this could have easily been
months or even years in the past, since it may take a long time to run
out of a batch of a given module.

after a cabinet is assembled and filled, the modules' firmware is
updated and another round of testing is performed. at this point, i
would hope that something like a bad potentiometer would be noticed.
that bums me out, but if something is broken it can be fixed.

of course, if you have a warranty question (something doesn't work
right and needs to be fixed or replaced), it would be most helpful to
address it directly to me or don, with as much detail as possible.

i do hate seeing scratches on the wood... it is quite easy to create
them, even just when packing the cabinet for shipment. perhaps we
should investigate more durable coatings, and certainly people could
always stand to be more careful in the shop.

it looks to me like the cv jack is simply dirty. who knows why. many
tools and adhesives and solders and pastes and whatnot are used by the
same very few hands at B&A. maybe don had cream cheese on his fingers
from his lunch as he spent the many many many hours it took to test
the 222e firmware with the very few existing hardware specimens.


it would take an unthinkable amount of "use" to make a banana jack
actually non-functional, and this one doesn't have a visible abrasion
or dent. there seems to be a general scattering of shop-dust on the
panel. it had probably been sitting on a shelf for a while.

apologies for dusty appearance but nothing is "beat-up."

my guess is that 200e modules will henceforth be cleaner when they are
packed for shipping. hopefully that will answer the problem.

when we say that B&A is a small company, we really mean it. don has
put a great deal of his own time into each and every instrument that
goes out. possibly one or two other people were involved, and possibly
not. there are no robots and no plastic bags, and i guess i have to
say that personally, i do think it should make a difference to your
standard of appearance.

-eb

On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 1:12 PM, imabadbadkat96 <imabadbadkat96@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I have to side with Kai. It doesn't matter how small or unique an operation
> is, a product
> sold as 'New' should not only be in unused condition, but also look it. It's
> very possible
> that the scratch on the wood panel could have happened during the
> testing/building
> process, but that jack looks VERY used. It's way beyond a blemish from the
> factory. I'd like
> to see more pictures if possible.
>
> True, the 200e is an incredible system, but that in no way justifies putting
> up with
> receiving beat up modules, especially considering the amount of money
> involved.
>
> Gus
>
> --- In 200e@yahoogroups.com, "kai200e" <kai200e@...> wrote:
>>
>> o.k. after i get no response on my emails to Don i have to write here.
>> And after i get no help here i will spreed out on the whole Internet.
>>
>> I just want to know if i am the only one who get a used System?
>>
>> After my 200e arrived i found out that most of the Moduls are used one.
>> Checking the date of service shows me that there where build in 2007.
>> Looks like they where on a Exhibition or used by are Studio for some
>> time. They are a lot of scratches on the Modules and on the Wood case.
>>
>> My first Email got a response that says "
>>
>> Thanks for pointing out the handling marks on your system. We will
>> re-emphasize the need for careful handling to our testers.
>>
>> The appearance of a bit of use is quite accurate. Your instrument has
>> been subjected to many days of field testing, as are all of our
>> instruments. None of your modules are "second hand".
>>
>> Sorry about the minor blemishes. We'll try to do better.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Don Buchla "
>>
>> I can only say that my Buchla looks very used and it is dirty. Also if
>> it was field tested why are one poti do not work correct?
>>
>>
>> Kai
>>
>
>

I definitely appreciate the insight into the goings-on at Buchla & Associates. 
Thanks Ezra.