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259e: Complex vs. Twisted versions gain / volume differences

259e: Complex vs. Twisted versions gain / volume differences

2010-09-18 by Rash Rahim

Today I had a Complex 259e and a Twisted 259e (both running v15 'Twisted' 
firmware) going into respective inputs into the 227e. Strangely, the Complex 
version has far less absolute volume potential than the Twisted version. 
Suspecting 227e channel gain differences, I swapped the inputs around, but sadly 
the phenomena persisted.

I was wondering if this is a 'problem' specific to the Complex 259e that I have, 
or if it is perhaps explained by something else, for instance, for all I know, 
B&A revised the output gain level for the Twisted re-release, can anyone 
confirm, refute or otherwise explain what I'm experiencing here? I wonder if 
anyone else on the list has a Complex and Twisted 259e, if so I would really 
love to have your feedback, or from anyone else for that matter. 

Very many thanks in advance!

Rash


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [200e] 259e: Complex vs. Twisted versions gain / volume differences

2010-09-18 by don hassler

I found the gain on the 259e being very noticeably lower than the 261e, though 
how the complex compares to the twisted I'm not sure.
While you have both, I'd be interested in whether the internal fm index is the 
same on the twisted as the complex.
I had my complex upgraded, and for some reason, I'm imagining the range of 
internal fm to be lower on the twisted.
Thanks!





________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Rash Rahim <rashemirashim@yahoo.com>
To: 200e@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 13:57:22
Subject: [200e] 259e: Complex vs. Twisted versions gain / volume differences

  
Today I had a Complex 259e and a Twisted 259e (both running v15 'Twisted' 
firmware) going into respective inputs into the 227e. Strangely, the Complex 
version has far less absolute volume potential than the Twisted version. 
Suspecting 227e channel gain differences, I swapped the inputs around, but sadly 

the phenomena persisted.

I was wondering if this is a 'problem' specific to the Complex 259e that I have, 

or if it is perhaps explained by something else, for instance, for all I know, 
B&A revised the output gain level for the Twisted re-release, can anyone 
confirm, refute or otherwise explain what I'm experiencing here? I wonder if 
anyone else on the list has a Complex and Twisted 259e, if so I would really 
love to have your feedback, or from anyone else for that matter. 

Very many thanks in advance!

Rash

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [200e] 259e: Complex vs. Twisted versions gain / volume differences

2010-09-18 by Rash

That's really interesting Don, thanks. I have yet to acquire a 261e, it's good to know that in advance though.

I really wish I could answer your FM index query, would you believe it, today was my first 'dance' with the 200e! My moves need some work, yet :-)

But wow - the experience was incredible - just a 259e too... Really impressive! 

Thanks again Don!

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 Sep 2010, at 07:03 PM, don hassler <dlh30039@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I found the gain on the 259e being very noticeably lower than the 261e, though 
> how the complex compares to the twisted I'm not sure.
> While you have both, I'd be interested in whether the internal fm index is the 
> same on the twisted as the complex.
> I had my complex upgraded, and for some reason, I'm imagining the range of 
> internal fm to be lower on the twisted.
> Thanks!
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Rash Rahim <rashemirashim@yahoo.com>
> To: 200e@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 13:57:22
> Subject: [200e] 259e: Complex vs. Twisted versions gain / volume differences
> 
> Today I had a Complex 259e and a Twisted 259e (both running v15 'Twisted' 
> firmware) going into respective inputs into the 227e. Strangely, the Complex 
> version has far less absolute volume potential than the Twisted version. 
> Suspecting 227e channel gain differences, I swapped the inputs around, but sadly 
> 
> the phenomena persisted.
> 
> I was wondering if this is a 'problem' specific to the Complex 259e that I have, 
> 
> or if it is perhaps explained by something else, for instance, for all I know, 
> B&A revised the output gain level for the Twisted re-release, can anyone 
> confirm, refute or otherwise explain what I'm experiencing here? I wonder if 
> anyone else on the list has a Complex and Twisted 259e, if so I would really 
> love to have your feedback, or from anyone else for that matter. 
> 
> Very many thanks in advance!
> 
> Rash
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [200e] 259e: Complex vs. Twisted versions gain / volume differences

2010-09-20 by Rash Rahim

Just a supplemental note about this, yesterday I performed a couple of side by 
side tests, first doing an A - B comparison of the pure sine coming out of the 
principal sections - there was a whisker between them if that - virtually the 
same loudness. It was the same comparing the modulation oscillator in the 
audible ranges. So my (lay) deduction is that despite the electronic 
architecture being largely based on the same topologies, the implementation in 
each version of 259e is a little different. It could be down to changes / 
substitutions in component types. If true, I welcome the difference, really I 
posed the original question for fear the Complex version I have might be a 
little sick or something. 

 
On the related point, I noticed that at certain settings, the FM input pots on 
both the Principal and Modulation oscillators on the Complex 259e affects pitch. 
With identical settings, the Twisted 259e version does not do this. For context 
both modules are running v15 hardware. Sorry for the almost diary entry nature 
of this post, it might be of interest to some of you.
 
Cheers,
Rash


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [200e] 259e: Complex vs. Twisted versions gain / volume differences

2010-09-20 by don hassler

Are you saying on your complex, with nothing plugged in the external fm, you get 
changes in frequency as you rotate the pot?





________________________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Rash Rahim <rashemirashim@yahoo.com>
To: 200e@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 7:18:44
Subject: Re: [200e] 259e: Complex vs. Twisted versions gain / volume differences

  
Just a supplemental note about this, yesterday I performed a couple of side by 
side tests, first doing an A - B comparison of the pure sine coming out of the 
principal sections - there was a whisker between them if that - virtually the 
same loudness. It was the same comparing the modulation oscillator in the 
audible ranges. So my (lay) deduction is that despite the electronic 
architecture being largely based on the same topologies, the implementation in 
each version of 259e is a little different. It could be down to changes / 
substitutions in component types. If true, I welcome the difference, really I 
posed the original question for fear the Complex version I have might be a 
little sick or something. 

 
On the related point, I noticed that at certain settings, the FM input pots on 
both the Principal and Modulation oscillators on the Complex 259e affects pitch. 

With identical settings, the Twisted 259e version does not do this. For context 
both modules are running v15 hardware. Sorry for the almost diary entry nature 
of this post, it might be of interest to some of you.
 
Cheers,
Rash

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [200e] 259e: Complex vs. Twisted versions gain / volume differences

2010-09-20 by Rash

Hi Don

Yes, that is what was happening yesterday. Inspired by Tom's advice (thanks by the way Tom), I just had a session, and I seem to have isolated the phenomena as being linked to the Modulation Oscillator. 

That said, the Twisted hardware is behaving the same way! So perhaps this is just a quirk. 

Anyway if you're curious, here is what I am doing: mod type set to Morph, morph set to 5, tables set anywhere between 2 and 5 and setting the Mod Osc to say 220 and on high range. Now as I turn the Mod Osc's FM in (sans patch cord), I can sometimes hear changes, but looking at the green and red LED's either side of 'morph' reveals some definite changes as the FM in pot is rotated. And when this happens, it seems to occasionally have a knock on mirror effect on the Principal Oscillator's FM in knob.

Being 'green' to the 200e, I am probably making a glaring omission of some kind. Sadly despite the reset, the volume level on the Complex seems way lower than the Complex. I suppose I could ask B&A about that, though I run the risk of being tagged a pedant! 

Cheers
Rash

Sent from my iPhone

On 20 Sep 2010, at 09:05 PM, don hassler <dlh30039@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Are you saying on your complex, with nothing plugged in the external fm, you get 
> changes in frequency as you rotate the pot?
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Rash Rahim <rashemirashim@yahoo.com>
> To: 200e@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 7:18:44
> Subject: Re: [200e] 259e: Complex vs. Twisted versions gain / volume differences
> 
> Just a supplemental note about this, yesterday I performed a couple of side by 
> side tests, first doing an A - B comparison of the pure sine coming out of the 
> principal sections - there was a whisker between them if that - virtually the 
> same loudness. It was the same comparing the modulation oscillator in the 
> audible ranges. So my (lay) deduction is that despite the electronic 
> architecture being largely based on the same topologies, the implementation in 
> each version of 259e is a little different. It could be down to changes / 
> substitutions in component types. If true, I welcome the difference, really I 
> posed the original question for fear the Complex version I have might be a 
> little sick or something. 
> 
> On the related point, I noticed that at certain settings, the FM input pots on 
> both the Principal and Modulation oscillators on the Complex 259e affects pitch. 
> 
> With identical settings, the Twisted 259e version does not do this. For context 
> both modules are running v15 hardware. Sorry for the almost diary entry nature 
> of this post, it might be of interest to some of you.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rash
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [200e] 259e: Complex vs. Twisted versions gain / volume differences

2010-09-20 by Don Kim

My 259e seems quieter than my 261e at certain settings/FM, but then other
settings it seems about as loud as the 261e.  Both the 261e and 259e seem
quieter than the 258v.  I thought it was just me too, but most the odd
things, I chalk them up to Buchla quirks since most don't seem paralyzing
and have some sort of workaround.

On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Rash <rashemirashim@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Don
>
> Yes, that is what was happening yesterday. Inspired by Tom's advice (thanks
> by the way Tom), I just had a session, and I seem to have isolated the
> phenomena as being linked to the Modulation Oscillator.
>
> That said, the Twisted hardware is behaving the same way! So perhaps this
> is just a quirk.
>
> Anyway if you're curious, here is what I am doing: mod type set to Morph,
> morph set to 5, tables set anywhere between 2 and 5 and setting the Mod Osc
> to say 220 and on high range. Now as I turn the Mod Osc's FM in (sans patch
> cord), I can sometimes hear changes, but looking at the green and red LED's
> either side of 'morph' reveals some definite changes as the FM in pot is
> rotated. And when this happens, it seems to occasionally have a knock on
> mirror effect on the Principal Oscillator's FM in knob.
>
> Being 'green' to the 200e, I am probably making a glaring omission of some
> kind. Sadly despite the reset, the volume level on the Complex seems way
> lower than the Complex. I suppose I could ask B&A about that, though I run
> the risk of being tagged a pedant!
>
> Cheers
> Rash
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On 20 Sep 2010, at 09:05 PM, don hassler <dlh30039@yahoo.com<dlh30039%40yahoo.com>>
> wrote:
>
> > Are you saying on your complex, with nothing plugged in the external fm,
> you get
> > changes in frequency as you rotate the pot?
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Rash Rahim <rashemirashim@yahoo.com <rashemirashim%40yahoo.com>>
> > To: 200e@yahoogroups.com <200e%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 7:18:44
> > Subject: Re: [200e] 259e: Complex vs. Twisted versions gain / volume
> differences
> >
> > Just a supplemental note about this, yesterday I performed a couple of
> side by
> > side tests, first doing an A - B comparison of the pure sine coming out
> of the
> > principal sections - there was a whisker between them if that - virtually
> the
> > same loudness. It was the same comparing the modulation oscillator in the
>
> > audible ranges. So my (lay) deduction is that despite the electronic
> > architecture being largely based on the same topologies, the
> implementation in
> > each version of 259e is a little different. It could be down to changes /
>
> > substitutions in component types. If true, I welcome the difference,
> really I
> > posed the original question for fear the Complex version I have might be
> a
> > little sick or something.
> >
> > On the related point, I noticed that at certain settings, the FM input
> pots on
> > both the Principal and Modulation oscillators on the Complex 259e affects
> pitch.
> >
> > With identical settings, the Twisted 259e version does not do this. For
> context
> > both modules are running v15 hardware. Sorry for the almost diary entry
> nature
> > of this post, it might be of interest to some of you.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Rash
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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