AVR-Chat

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Tom Becker <gtbecker@...> wrote:
>
> mido glgl wrote:
>  > ... Me and Youssef are student in the same class...
> 
> Why did you tell us November 30 that:
> "... really i'm in faculty of engineering..."?
> 
> Are you a student or are you faculty?
>
mido glgl and youssef not in implementing so 

any one can help us do that or don't wast our and his time

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Clark <dlc@...> wrote:
>
>    I feel an attack of "old fartism" coming on...  For those that have 
> kids and have seen "Clifford, The Big Red Dog", use the voice of the 
> fellow who talks about "when I was a boy..." here:
> 
>    Back when I was a student we didn't have the WWW, we read books and 
> experimented using solderless breadboards.  <Sounds of gasps>"No WWW? 
> How did you survive?!"
>    Well, we read data sheets and looked at example code (if there was 
> any), then we (whisper quietly) hand-assembled code from assembly
sheets 
> and keyed it in.  In other words, we learned to look data up and 
> interpret it.  This means you need to know the parts of a micro 
> controller and how it works.  I'm sure that your class has provided
said 
> data sheets and manuals.  It is now up to you to "connect the dots" and 
> learn the steps we use in the real world to solve problems.  Getting 
> help is fine, asking for the answers without even trying to understand 
> the problem is going to lead you down the path to failure.  If you get 
> stuck and would like an explanation on some detail, we're happy to
help, 
> there are some sticking points with the AVR controllers that are not 
> obvious to the beginner.
> 
> Go for it and have fun,
> DLC
> 
> mido glgl wrote:
> > Dear Tom Becker, 
> >         Me and Youssef are student in the same class and we are
begginer in MCU and try to study ,
> > We begun but need for help
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Tom Becker <gtbecker@...>
> > To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 11:36:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Beginner, I want a simple prog
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> >     
> >             Youssef, is "mido glgl" your teacher or is he also a
student?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >     
> >   
> > 
> >     
> >     
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > <!--
> > 
> > #ygrp-mkp{
> > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px
0px;padding:0px 14px;}
> > #ygrp-mkp hr{
> > border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}
> > #ygrp-mkp #hd{
> >
color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-height:122%;margin:10px
0px;}
> > #ygrp-mkp #ads{
> > margin-bottom:10px;}
> > #ygrp-mkp .ad{
> > padding:0 0;}
> > #ygrp-mkp .ad a{
> > color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}
> > -->
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > <!--
> > 
> > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{
> > font-family:Arial;}
> > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{
> > margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}
> > #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{
> > margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}
> > -->
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > <!--
> > 
> > #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean,
sans-serif;}
> > #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}
> > #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica,
clean, sans-serif;}
> > #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}
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> > font-family:Georgia;
> > }
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0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;}
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> > float:left;white-space:nowrap;}
> > .bld{font-weight:bold;}
> > #ygrp-grft{
> > font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;}
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> > font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666;
> > padding:5px 0;
> > }
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> > padding-bottom:10px;}
> > 
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> >
font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:uppercase;}
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> >
font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-right:.5em;}
> > #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
> > font-weight:bold;}
> > #ygrp-vital a{
> > text-decoration:none;}
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> > background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}
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> > padding:8px 0;}
> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
> >
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%;}
> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
> > text-decoration:none;}
> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
> > text-decoration:underline;}
> > #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
> > margin:0;}
> > o{font-size:0;}
> > .MsoNormal{
> > margin:0 0 0 0;}
> > #ygrp-text tt{
> > font-size:120%;}
> > blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}
> > .replbq{margin:4;}
> > -->
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >      
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> -- 
> ---------------------------------------
> Dennis Clark    TTT Enterprises
> ---------------------------------------
>
back they invented the lamp as they owned few tools , they do a great
 thing  , nowadays we have more tools so we should achieve more quickly  
by using any possible tools we have

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Wagner <wagnerj@...> wrote:
>
> 
> On Dec 27, 2007, at 2:24 PM, Wael Abd Elgilil wrote:
> 
> > --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Tom Becker <gtbecker@> wrote:
> >  >
> >  > mido glgl wrote:
> >  > > ... Me and Youssef are student in the same class...
> >  >
> >  > Why did you tell us November 30 that:
> >  > "... really i'm in faculty of engineering..."?
> >  >
> >  > Are you a student or are you faculty?
> >  >
> >  mido glgl and youssef not in implementing so
> >
> >  any one can help us do that or don't wast our and his time
> >
> >
> Wael Abd Elgilil
> 
> You question is so basic that most of us do not know how to answer. It 
> is as if you have never read a book about embedded processor 
> programming, or the data sheet for the chip you wish to use.
> 
> Until you do some of that on your own, it is very hard to help you. 
> Further, nobody will "give" you a simple program. If it is simple, you 
> need to learn how. The AVR Freaks website has many tutorials. There is 
> also an AVR Beginner website with lots of information about how to get 
> started.
> 
> Jim Wagner
> Oregon Research Electronics
> Tangent, OR, USA
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Jim Wagner

thank you for your advice but be aware that iam a begginer and i want 
the first footstep to start so i need an express way to walk

Dear Tom Becker, 
        Me and Youssef are student in the same class and we are begginer in MCU and try to study ,
We begun but need for help

----- Original Message ----
From: Tom Becker <gtbecker@rightime.com>
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 11:36:35 PM
Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Beginner, I want a simple prog










  


    
            Youssef, is "mido glgl" your teacher or is he also a student?





    
  

    
    




<!--

I feel an attack of "old fartism" coming on...  For those that have 
kids and have seen "Clifford, The Big Red Dog", use the voice of the 
fellow who talks about "when I was a boy..." here:

   Back when I was a student we didn't have the WWW, we read books and 
experimented using solderless breadboards.  <Sounds of gasps>"No WWW? 
How did you survive?!"
   Well, we read data sheets and looked at example code (if there was 
any), then we (whisper quietly) hand-assembled code from assembly sheets 
and keyed it in.  In other words, we learned to look data up and 
interpret it.  This means you need to know the parts of a micro 
controller and how it works.  I'm sure that your class has provided said 
data sheets and manuals.  It is now up to you to "connect the dots" and 
learn the steps we use in the real world to solve problems.  Getting 
help is fine, asking for the answers without even trying to understand 
the problem is going to lead you down the path to failure.  If you get 
stuck and would like an explanation on some detail, we're happy to help, 
there are some sticking points with the AVR controllers that are not 
obvious to the beginner.

Go for it and have fun,
DLC

mido glgl wrote:
> Dear Tom Becker, 
>         Me and Youssef are student in the same class and we are begginer in MCU and try to study ,
> We begun but need for help
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Tom Becker <gtbecker@rightime.com>
> To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 11:36:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Beginner, I want a simple prog
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
>     
>             Youssef, is "mido glgl" your teacher or is he also a student?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     
>   
> 
>     
>     
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <!--
> 
> #ygrp-mkp{
> border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px 0px;padding:0px 14px;}
> #ygrp-mkp hr{
> border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}
> #ygrp-mkp #hd{
> color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0px;}
> #ygrp-mkp #ads{
> margin-bottom:10px;}
> #ygrp-mkp .ad{
> padding:0 0;}
> #ygrp-mkp .ad a{
> color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}
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> 
> 
> 
> <!--
> 
> #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{
> font-family:Arial;}
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> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

-- 
---------------------------------------
Dennis Clark    TTT Enterprises
---------------------------------------

mido glgl wrote:
 > ... Me and Youssef are student in the same class...

Why did you tell us November 30 that:
"... really i'm in faculty of engineering..."?

Are you a student or are you faculty?

Same here, except I spell it "olde fahrt" <grin>

My very first microcontroller project was with a Z-80.  I wrote the 
program in assembler, translated it into machine code myself on paper 
using the Zilog Z-80 data book, and then programmed it into a SEEQ 52B13 
EEPROM.  I made a programmer that used DIP switches for address and data 
and a pushbutton for programming. I must've programmed thousands of lines 
of machine code by loading it with the DIP switches and pushing the 
button. I did not have a computer at the time to do any of this with. 
And the darned programs worked!

It was a learning experience but I'm glad those days are behind me.
:-)

Zack

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007, Dennis Clark wrote:

>   I feel an attack of "old fartism" coming on...  For those that have
> kids and have seen "Clifford, The Big Red Dog", use the voice of the
> fellow who talks about "when I was a boy..." here:
>
>   Back when I was a student we didn't have the WWW, we read books and
> experimented using solderless breadboards.  <Sounds of gasps>"No WWW?
> How did you survive?!"
>   Well, we read data sheets and looked at example code (if there was
> any), then we (whisper quietly) hand-assembled code from assembly sheets
> and keyed it in.  In other words, we learned to look data up and
> interpret it.  This means you need to know the parts of a micro
> controller and how it works.  I'm sure that your class has provided said
> data sheets and manuals.  It is now up to you to "connect the dots" and
> learn the steps we use in the real world to solve problems.  Getting
> help is fine, asking for the answers without even trying to understand
> the problem is going to lead you down the path to failure.  If you get
> stuck and would like an explanation on some detail, we're happy to help,
> there are some sticking points with the AVR controllers that are not
> obvious to the beginner.
>
> Go for it and have fun,
> DLC
>

Also, while we could provide some simple samples, the thing about the
world of micro-controllers is that most applications (even simple
ones) tend to be specific to the circuit used.

i.e.  I could provide you an example to blink the LED on an
ATmega8535, but that program would only work exactly the same for you
IF and only IF you had a similar LED attached in a similar fashion AND
ran your system off of a similar speed clock source.

That is - if I were to send you a sample app designed to blink the LED
using a 32 kHz clock and you were using a 16 MHz clock, the LED would
blink too fast.

That is - (same sample) if you had the LED attached to a different
port (or a different pin of the same port,) your LED would not blink.

That is why some of us get a bit frustrated when asked overly vague
questions.  We do not know which board you are using, the schematic of
the board is not known to us.  We could guess, but it would likely be
wrong and add to your level of frustration and confusion.

So, back to your original post of asking for a delay routine.  Things
that are ambiguous/need clarification:

1. What clock speed are you running at?
2. What range of delays do you want - microseconds or days or both?

These both are very necessary things to know to solve your delay look
problem.

Also, there is a really neat library called Avr LibC for WinAVR/GCC. 
(This is where googling and spending time digesting the freely
available info on the web come in.) It provides some sample wait
routines as well:

http://www.nongnu.org/avr-libc/user-manual/group__util__delay.html

Now, if you really wanted a delay routine, you could read through the
Avr LibC delay routines, contemplate how the above two questions are
pertinent to your original post - then try to ask very specific questions.

John

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Wael Abd Elgilil" <w.abdelgilil@...>
wrote:
>
> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Wagner <wagnerj@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > On Dec 27, 2007, at 2:24 PM, Wael Abd Elgilil wrote:
> > 
> > > --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Tom Becker <gtbecker@> wrote:
> > >  >
> > >  > mido glgl wrote:
> > >  > > ... Me and Youssef are student in the same class...
> > >  >
> > >  > Why did you tell us November 30 that:
> > >  > "... really i'm in faculty of engineering..."?
> > >  >
> > >  > Are you a student or are you faculty?
> > >  >
> > >  mido glgl and youssef not in implementing so
> > >
> > >  any one can help us do that or don't wast our and his time
> > >
> > >
> > Wael Abd Elgilil
> > 
> > You question is so basic that most of us do not know how to
answer. It 
> > is as if you have never read a book about embedded processor 
> > programming, or the data sheet for the chip you wish to use.
> > 
> > Until you do some of that on your own, it is very hard to help you. 
> > Further, nobody will "give" you a simple program. If it is simple,
you 
> > need to learn how. The AVR Freaks website has many tutorials.
There is 
> > also an AVR Beginner website with lots of information about how to
get 

> > started.
> > 
> > Jim Wagner
> > Oregon Research Electronics
> > Tangent, OR, USA
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> Jim Wagner
> 
> thank you for your advice but be aware that iam a begginer and i want 
> the first footstep to start so i need an express way to walk
>

On Dec 27, 2007, at 2:24 PM, Wael Abd Elgilil wrote:

> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Tom Becker <gtbecker@...> wrote:
>  >
>  > mido glgl wrote:
>  > > ... Me and Youssef are student in the same class...
>  >
>  > Why did you tell us November 30 that:
>  > "... really i'm in faculty of engineering..."?
>  >
>  > Are you a student or are you faculty?
>  >
>  mido glgl and youssef not in implementing so
>
>  any one can help us do that or don't wast our and his time
>
>
Wael Abd Elgilil

You question is so basic that most of us do not know how to answer. It 
is as if you have never read a book about embedded processor 
programming, or the data sheet for the chip you wish to use.

Until you do some of that on your own, it is very hard to help you. 
Further, nobody will "give" you a simple program. If it is simple, you 
need to learn how. The AVR Freaks website has many tutorials. There is 
also an AVR Beginner website with lots of information about how to get 
started.

Jim Wagner
Oregon Research Electronics
Tangent, OR, USA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[See to end]

Wael Abd Elgilil wrote:
> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Clark <dlc@...> wrote:
> 
>>   I feel an attack of "old fartism" coming on...  For those that have 
>>kids and have seen "Clifford, The Big Red Dog", use the voice of the 
>>fellow who talks about "when I was a boy..." here:
>>
>>   Back when I was a student we didn't have the WWW, we read books and 
>>experimented using solderless breadboards.  <Sounds of gasps>"No WWW? 
>>How did you survive?!"
>>   Well, we read data sheets and looked at example code (if there was 
>>any), then we (whisper quietly) hand-assembled code from assembly
> 
> sheets 
> 
>>and keyed it in.  In other words, we learned to look data up and 
>>interpret it.  This means you need to know the parts of a micro 
>>controller and how it works.  I'm sure that your class has provided
> 
> said 
> 
>>data sheets and manuals.  It is now up to you to "connect the dots" and 
>>learn the steps we use in the real world to solve problems.  Getting 
>>help is fine, asking for the answers without even trying to understand 
>>the problem is going to lead you down the path to failure.  If you get 
>>stuck and would like an explanation on some detail, we're happy to
> 
> help, 
> 
>>there are some sticking points with the AVR controllers that are not 
>>obvious to the beginner.
>>
>>Go for it and have fun,
>>DLC
>>
>>mido glgl wrote:
>>
>>>Dear Tom Becker, 
>>>        Me and Youssef are student in the same class and we are
> 
> begginer in MCU and try to study ,
> 
>>>We begun but need for help

[snip]

> 
> back they invented the lamp as they owned few tools , they do a great
>  thing  , nowadays we have more tools so we should achieve more quickly  
> by using any possible tools we have   
>  

   That is a "slippery slope" argument.  You aren't using tools, you are 
asking someone else to do the work without you understanding what was 
done.  I could have leaned over and asked the guy next to me how he did 
it, and copied it.  But I would not have learned anything and would have 
failed the tests.  I saw this happen many times.  Do your own work, ask 
your own questions.  By struggling through it you will learn something. 
  We don't learn from our successes, we learn through our mistakes.

DLC


-- 
---------------------------------------
Dennis Clark    TTT Enterprises
---------------------------------------

On Dec 27, 2007, at 2:49 PM, Wael Abd Elgilil wrote:

> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Jim Wagner <wagnerj@...> wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  > On Dec 27, 2007, at 2:24 PM, Wael Abd Elgilil wrote:
>  >
>  > > --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Tom Becker <gtbecker@> wrote:
>  > > >
>  > > > mido glgl wrote:
>  > > > > ... Me and Youssef are student in the same class...
>  > > >
>  > > > Why did you tell us November 30 that:
>  > > > "... really i'm in faculty of engineering..."?
>  > > >
>  > > > Are you a student or are you faculty?
>  > > >
>  > > mido glgl and youssef not in implementing so
>  > >
>  > > any one can help us do that or don't wast our and his time
>  > >
>  > >
>  > Wael Abd Elgilil
>  >
>  > You question is so basic that most of us do not know how to answer. 
> It
>  > is as if you have never read a book about embedded processor
>  > programming, or the data sheet for the chip you wish to use.
>  >
>  > Until you do some of that on your own, it is very hard to help you.
>  > Further, nobody will "give" you a simple program. If it is simple, 
> you
>  > need to learn how. The AVR Freaks website has many tutorials. There 
> is
>  > also an AVR Beginner website with lots of information about how to 
> get
>  > started.
>  >
>  > Jim Wagner
>  > Oregon Research Electronics
>  > Tangent, OR, USA
>  >
>  >
>  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>  >
>  Jim Wagner
>
>  thank you for your advice but be aware that iam a begginer and i want
>  the first footstep to start so i need an express way to walk
> _,_._,___
The simple answer is that there is no express way to walk. You need to 
spend some time learning. Then, you crawl. Then walk. Maybe then, even 
run!

Jim



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Wael Abd Elgilil <w.abdelgilil@hotmail.com> wrote:

> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Tom Becker
> <gtbecker@...> wrote:
> >
> > mido glgl wrote:
> >  > ... Me and Youssef are student in the same
> class...
> > 
> > Why did you tell us November 30 that:
> > "... really i'm in faculty of engineering..."?
> > 
> > Are you a student or are you faculty?
> >
> mido glgl and youssef not in implementing so 
> 
> any one can help us do that or don't wast our and
> his time

Probably.  We don't seem to be inclined to do so,
though.

There are many 'C' books that should cover your needs
quite thouroughly.  Google should also provide a lot
of leads.  Try seaching for 'conditional loops'.

Best of Luck!

Jeff

Happiness is - positive intake manifold pressure.


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Dennis Clark wrote:
> [See to end]
> 
> Wael Abd Elgilil wrote:
>> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Clark <dlc@...> wrote:
>>
>>>   I feel an attack of "old fartism" coming on...  For those that have 
>>> kids and have seen "Clifford, The Big Red Dog", use the voice of the 
>>> fellow who talks about "when I was a boy..." here:
>>>
>>>   Back when I was a student we didn't have the WWW, we read books and 
>>> experimented using solderless breadboards.  <Sounds of gasps>"No WWW? 
>>> How did you survive?!"
>>>   Well, we read data sheets and looked at example code (if there was 
>>> any), then we (whisper quietly) hand-assembled code from assembly
>> sheets 
>>
>>> and keyed it in.  In other words, we learned to look data up and 
>>> interpret it.  This means you need to know the parts of a micro 
>>> controller and how it works.  I'm sure that your class has provided
>> said 
>>
>>> data sheets and manuals.  It is now up to you to "connect the dots" and 
>>> learn the steps we use in the real world to solve problems.  Getting 
>>> help is fine, asking for the answers without even trying to understand 
>>> the problem is going to lead you down the path to failure.  If you get 
>>> stuck and would like an explanation on some detail, we're happy to
>> help, 
>>
>>> there are some sticking points with the AVR controllers that are not 
>>> obvious to the beginner.
>>>
>>> Go for it and have fun,
>>> DLC
>>>
>>> mido glgl wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Tom Becker, 
>>>>        Me and Youssef are student in the same class and we are
>> begginer in MCU and try to study ,
>>
>>>> We begun but need for help
> 
> [snip]
> 
>> back they invented the lamp as they owned few tools , they do a great
>>  thing  , nowadays we have more tools so we should achieve more quickly  
>> by using any possible tools we have   
>>  
> 
>    That is a "slippery slope" argument.  You aren't using tools, you are 
> asking someone else to do the work without you understanding what was 
> done.  I could have leaned over and asked the guy next to me how he did 
> it, and copied it.  But I would not have learned anything and would have 
> failed the tests.  I saw this happen many times.  Do your own work, ask 
> your own questions.  By struggling through it you will learn something. 
>   We don't learn from our successes, we learn through our mistakes.
> 
> DLC

Let me add this:

Dear Wael, mido, et al:

The greatest tool you will ever own is already in your possession.  It 
is that computer behind your eyeballs.  Develop it.  Without it, all 
the other tools will be worthless, and in fact, could not even have 
been made.

-- 
erikc
--
"At one point in time, many of us had Jesus as our personal lord
and saviour. Unfortunately, we later had to dismiss him for
incompetence, gross negligence, misconduct and consistent failure
to show  up for work.  Not to mention being caught with his hand
in the till..."