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Liquid level measurement

Liquid level measurement

2009-01-14 by Enki

I need to measure the liquid level inside a transparent plastic 
bottle. I need to know when the liquid is below half bottle height and 
when the bottle is almost empty. Just two steps.
	The plastic bottle measures 12cm high x 8cm x 3cm.
	I'm not allowed to insert any probe in the bottle.
	There are four bottles side by side.

	I was thinking on metal plates mounted on each side of each bottle 
and using the capacitance method.

	Or a B&W video camera and some processing. I could generate four 
sample windows on each video line and integrate the samples. The four 
integrated signals would represent the liquid level on each bottle.
	An ATMEGA48 would do the level measurement with four ADCs.

	Comments, please.

	Thanks,
	Mark Jordan

Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

2009-01-14 by Ken Holt

I have used capacitive sensing successfully on a 4' high
fiberglass tank, measuring the height of the water inside
to within and inch.  I used only one metal plate; the water
inside was a good enough ground plate.

Enki wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
> I need to measure the liquid level inside a transparent plastic
> bottle. I need to know when the liquid is below half bottle height and
> when the bottle is almost empty. Just two steps.
> The plastic bottle measures 12cm high x 8cm x 3cm.
> I'm not allowed to insert any probe in the bottle.
> There are four bottles side by side.
>
> I was thinking on metal plates mounted on each side of each bottle
> and using the capacitance method.
>
> Or a B&W video camera and some processing. I could generate four
> sample windows on each video line and integrate the samples. The four
> integrated signals would represent the liquid level on each bottle.
> An ATMEGA48 would do the level measurement with four ADCs.
>
> Comments, please.
>
> Thanks,
> Mark Jordan
>
>

Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

2009-01-14 by Tim Gilbert

Are the bottles transparent?  If so, you could use a laser and photo diodes; the wavelengths absorbed could even tell you what was in the bottle.

Regards,

Tim Gilbert
JEM Innovation Inc.
303-926-9053 (office)
303-437-4342 (cell)
720-890-8582 (fax)
www.jeminnovation.com
www.pdksolutions.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ken Holt 
  To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement


  I have used capacitive sensing successfully on a 4' high
  fiberglass tank, measuring the height of the water inside
  to within and inch. I used only one metal plate; the water
  inside was a good enough ground plate.

  Enki wrote:
  >
  >
  > I need to measure the liquid level inside a transparent plastic
  > bottle. I need to know when the liquid is below half bottle height and
  > when the bottle is almost empty. Just two steps.
  > The plastic bottle measures 12cm high x 8cm x 3cm.
  > I'm not allowed to insert any probe in the bottle.
  > There are four bottles side by side.
  >
  > I was thinking on metal plates mounted on each side of each bottle
  > and using the capacitance method.
  >
  > Or a B&W video camera and some processing. I could generate four
  > sample windows on each video line and integrate the samples. The four
  > integrated signals would represent the liquid level on each bottle.
  > An ATMEGA48 would do the level measurement with four ADCs.
  >
  > Comments, please.
  >
  > Thanks,
  > Mark Jordan
  >
  > 



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

2009-01-14 by Philippe Habib

I have used sensors from SIE Sensorik to read liquid level through a  
plastic wall.  They are easy to use, can be calibrated for sensitivity  
and are very reliable.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Jan 13, 2009, at 5:43 PM, Enki wrote:

>
> 	I need to measure the liquid level inside a transparent plastic
> bottle. I need to know when the liquid is below half bottle height and
> when the bottle is almost empty. Just two steps.
> 	The plastic bottle measures 12cm high x 8cm x 3cm.
> 	I'm not allowed to insert any probe in the bottle.
> 	There are four bottles side by side.
>
> 	I was thinking on metal plates mounted on each side of each bottle
> and using the capacitance method.
>
> 	Or a B&W video camera and some processing. I could generate four
> sample windows on each video line and integrate the samples. The four
> integrated signals would represent the liquid level on each bottle.
> 	An ATMEGA48 would do the level measurement with four ADCs.
>
> 	Comments, please.
>
> 	Thanks,
> 	Mark Jordan
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

2009-01-14 by Philippe Habib

Another option might be a pressure transducer on the bottom of the  
bottle or an ultrasound device bouncing off the water.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Jan 13, 2009, at 6:24 PM, Tim Gilbert wrote:

> Are the bottles transparent?  If so, you could use a laser and photo  
> diodes; the wavelengths absorbed could even tell you what was in the  
> bottle.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tim Gilbert
> JEM Innovation Inc.
> 303-926-9053 (office)
> 303-437-4342 (cell)
> 720-890-8582 (fax)
> www.jeminnovation.com
> www.pdksolutions.com
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Ken Holt
>  To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
>  Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:20 PM
>  Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement
>
>
>  I have used capacitive sensing successfully on a 4' high
>  fiberglass tank, measuring the height of the water inside
>  to within and inch. I used only one metal plate; the water
>  inside was a good enough ground plate.
>
>  Enki wrote:
>>
>>
>> I need to measure the liquid level inside a transparent plastic
>> bottle. I need to know when the liquid is below half bottle height  
>> and
>> when the bottle is almost empty. Just two steps.
>> The plastic bottle measures 12cm high x 8cm x 3cm.
>> I'm not allowed to insert any probe in the bottle.
>> There are four bottles side by side.
>>
>> I was thinking on metal plates mounted on each side of each bottle
>> and using the capacitance method.
>>
>> Or a B&W video camera and some processing. I could generate four
>> sample windows on each video line and integrate the samples. The four
>> integrated signals would represent the liquid level on each bottle.
>> An ATMEGA48 would do the level measurement with four ADCs.
>>
>> Comments, please.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mark Jordan
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

RE: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

2009-01-14 by Mat Tubb

You can also use a set of scales to measure the weight were practical.
 
regards
Mat Tubb
Airship Solutions Pty Ltd
http://www.airship.com.au/
Ph: 1300 791 068
Mb: 0415 150 414
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Enki
Sent: Wednesday, 14 January 2009 12:44 PM
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement
 

I need to measure the liquid level inside a transparent plastic 
bottle. I need to know when the liquid is below half bottle height and 
when the bottle is almost empty. Just two steps.
The plastic bottle measures 12cm high x 8cm x 3cm.
I'm not allowed to insert any probe in the bottle.
There are four bottles side by side.

I was thinking on metal plates mounted on each side of each bottle 
and using the capacitance method.

Or a B&W video camera and some processing. I could generate four 
sample windows on each video line and integrate the samples. The four 
integrated signals would represent the liquid level on each bottle.
An ATMEGA48 would do the level measurement with four ADCs.

Comments, please.

Thanks,
Mark Jordan
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

2009-01-14 by Robert Tilden

Perhaps an IR reflection sensor on the outside. There may be enough of a
difference in index of refraction between air and liquid on the inside that
there will be a reflection from the air/plastic interface when empty and no
reflection when full. If you can use separate emitters/sensors you could
adjust the angle of incidence to optimize the signal difference.

Capacitance sensing would work as well, but would need more circuitry. 

-----------------------------------
Bob Tilden, tilden@northwestern.edu
High Energy Physics Group
Northwestern University
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Enki
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:44 PM
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement


	I need to measure the liquid level inside a transparent plastic 
bottle. I need to know when the liquid is below half bottle height and 
when the bottle is almost empty. Just two steps.
	The plastic bottle measures 12cm high x 8cm x 3cm.
	I'm not allowed to insert any probe in the bottle.
	There are four bottles side by side.

	I was thinking on metal plates mounted on each side of each bottle 
and using the capacitance method.

	Or a B&W video camera and some processing. I could generate four 
sample windows on each video line and integrate the samples. The four 
integrated signals would represent the liquid level on each bottle.
	An ATMEGA48 would do the level measurement with four ADCs.

	Comments, please.

	Thanks,
	Mark Jordan


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

2009-01-14 by Tim Gilbert

Most windshield rain sensors use the index of refraction principle; however, the difference between "full" and "just wet" isn't very much.

Tim Gilbert
JEM Innovation Inc.
303-926-9053 (office)
303-437-4342 (cell)
720-890-8582 (fax)
www.jeminnovation.com
www.pdksolutions.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Robert Tilden 
  To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:14 PM
  Subject: RE: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement


  Perhaps an IR reflection sensor on the outside. There may be enough of a
  difference in index of refraction between air and liquid on the inside that
  there will be a reflection from the air/plastic interface when empty and no
  reflection when full. If you can use separate emitters/sensors you could
  adjust the angle of incidence to optimize the signal difference.

  Capacitance sensing would work as well, but would need more circuitry. 

  -----------------------------------
  Bob Tilden, tilden@northwestern.edu
  High Energy Physics Group
  Northwestern University

  -----Original Message-----
  From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
  Of Enki
  Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:44 PM
  To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

  I need to measure the liquid level inside a transparent plastic 
  bottle. I need to know when the liquid is below half bottle height and 
  when the bottle is almost empty. Just two steps.
  The plastic bottle measures 12cm high x 8cm x 3cm.
  I'm not allowed to insert any probe in the bottle.
  There are four bottles side by side.

  I was thinking on metal plates mounted on each side of each bottle 
  and using the capacitance method.

  Or a B&W video camera and some processing. I could generate four 
  sample windows on each video line and integrate the samples. The four 
  integrated signals would represent the liquid level on each bottle.
  An ATMEGA48 would do the level measurement with four ADCs.

  Comments, please.

  Thanks,
  Mark Jordan

  ------------------------------------

  Yahoo! Groups Links



   

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

2009-01-14 by Rick B.

Alex and the other guy who both said weigh them were correct.

Weigh them.

M5



--- On Tue, 1/13/09, Enki <enkitec@gmail.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Enki <enkitec@gmail.com>
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 8:43 PM










    
            

	I need to measure the liquid level inside a transparent plastic 

bottle. I need to know when the liquid is below half bottle height and 

when the bottle is almost empty. Just two steps.

	The plastic bottle measures 12cm high x 8cm x 3cm.

	I'm not allowed to insert any probe in the bottle.

	There are four bottles side by side.



	I was thinking on metal plates mounted on each side of each bottle 

and using the capacitance method.



	Or a B&W video camera and some processing. I could generate four 

sample windows on each video line and integrate the samples. The four 

integrated signals would represent the liquid level on each bottle.

	An ATMEGA48 would do the level measurement with four ADCs.



	Comments, please.



	Thanks,

	Mark Jordan




      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

2009-01-14 by Tim McDonough

Enki wrote:
> 	I need to measure the liquid level inside a transparent plastic 
> bottle. I need to know when the liquid is below half bottle height and 
> when the bottle is almost empty. Just two steps.
> 	The plastic bottle measures 12cm high x 8cm x 3cm.
> 	I'm not allowed to insert any probe in the bottle.
> 	There are four bottles side by side.

Is the liquid itself always the same?
Is the liquid clear or opaque?

I have detected used oil in a steel container where there was a sight 
glass. When oil is present it will reflect light. Other dark liquids 
may work the same.

If it is possible, the weight option already mentioned is probably the 
easiest and would allow the "trip point" to be easily adjusted.

Tim

Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

2009-01-14 by Zack Widup

Naah, that's too easy!
:-)

Zack

On 1/13/09, Alex Shepherd <lists06@ajsystems.co.nz> wrote:
>
>   > An ATMEGA48 would do the level measurement with four ADCs.
> >
> > Comments, please.
>
> What about weighing them?
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

2009-01-14 by dlc

Put a strong magnet on a float around a rod that goes down one side. 
Put a hall effect device at 1/2 and nearly empty.  The rest goes without 
saying.

DLC

Philippe Habib wrote:
> I have used sensors from SIE Sensorik to read liquid level through a  
> plastic wall.  They are easy to use, can be calibrated for sensitivity  
> and are very reliable.
> On Jan 13, 2009, at 5:43 PM, Enki wrote:
> 
>> 	I need to measure the liquid level inside a transparent plastic
>> bottle. I need to know when the liquid is below half bottle height and
>> when the bottle is almost empty. Just two steps.
>> 	The plastic bottle measures 12cm high x 8cm x 3cm.
>> 	I'm not allowed to insert any probe in the bottle.
>> 	There are four bottles side by side.
>>
>> 	I was thinking on metal plates mounted on each side of each bottle
>> and using the capacitance method.
>>
>> 	Or a B&W video camera and some processing. I could generate four
>> sample windows on each video line and integrate the samples. The four
>> integrated signals would represent the liquid level on each bottle.
>> 	An ATMEGA48 would do the level measurement with four ADCs.
>>
>> 	Comments, please.
>>
>> 	Thanks,
>> 	Mark Jordan
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

-- 
-------------------------------------------------
Dennis Clark          TTT Enterprises
www.techtoystoday.com
-------------------------------------------------

Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

2009-01-14 by Philippe Habib

The company I mentioned earlier makes two sensors types.  One trips on  
wet and the other actually needs real water, not just moisture  
sticking to the walls of the container.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Jan 13, 2009, at 7:19 PM, Tim Gilbert wrote:

> Most windshield rain sensors use the index of refraction principle;  
> however, the difference between "full" and "just wet" isn't very much.
>
> Tim Gilbert
> JEM Innovation Inc.
> 303-926-9053 (office)
> 303-437-4342 (cell)
> 720-890-8582 (fax)
> www.jeminnovation.com
> www.pdksolutions.com
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Robert Tilden
>  To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
>  Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:14 PM
>  Subject: RE: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement
>
>
>  Perhaps an IR reflection sensor on the outside. There may be enough  
> of a
>  difference in index of refraction between air and liquid on the  
> inside that
>  there will be a reflection from the air/plastic interface when  
> empty and no
>  reflection when full. If you can use separate emitters/sensors you  
> could
>  adjust the angle of incidence to optimize the signal difference.
>
>  Capacitance sensing would work as well, but would need more  
> circuitry.
>
>  -----------------------------------
>  Bob Tilden, tilden@northwestern.edu
>  High Energy Physics Group
>  Northwestern University
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On  
> Behalf
>  Of Enki
>  Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:44 PM
>  To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
>  Subject: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement
>
>  I need to measure the liquid level inside a transparent plastic
>  bottle. I need to know when the liquid is below half bottle height  
> and
>  when the bottle is almost empty. Just two steps.
>  The plastic bottle measures 12cm high x 8cm x 3cm.
>  I'm not allowed to insert any probe in the bottle.
>  There are four bottles side by side.
>
>  I was thinking on metal plates mounted on each side of each bottle
>  and using the capacitance method.
>
>  Or a B&W video camera and some processing. I could generate four
>  sample windows on each video line and integrate the samples. The four
>  integrated signals would represent the liquid level on each bottle.
>  An ATMEGA48 would do the level measurement with four ADCs.
>
>  Comments, please.
>
>  Thanks,
>  Mark Jordan
>
>  ------------------------------------
>
>  Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

2009-01-14 by Rick B.

Rube Goldberg lives !!!




--- On Tue, 1/13/09, Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@gmail.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Zack Widup <w9sz.zack@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 11:31 PM










    
            Naah, that's too easy!

:-)



Zack



On 1/13/09, Alex Shepherd <lists06@ajsystems. co.nz> wrote:

>

>   > An ATMEGA48 would do the level measurement with four ADCs.

> >

> > Comments, please.

>

> What about weighing them?

>

>  

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Liquid level measurement

2009-01-14 by ajcollins99

All of these are good ideas.  When thinking about this, I ruled out 
weight becasue you never said it would be the same liquid each time.  
If so, weight is the best (easiest) option in my opinion.  

Camera and IR are good ideas, however sensitive to environmental 
conditions.  Is this bottle always going to be at the same place, and 
are the conditions always the same during the measurement?  I am 
assuming that you want to do this without human interaction, because 
that would be 

What about having a second container of liquid, putting the plastic 
bottle on a sled that has a linear encoder on it (could be as simple as 
black lines on a white background) and reading the encoder with an 
enclosed IR sensor as the plastic bottle floats in the other liquid.  
The less empty the bottle, the higher it will float?  This is more of a 
mechanical idea I guess.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

2009-01-15 by kelvin kooger

You can use combination of weight and IR on all the bottles (just incase 2 are full)..

--- On Wed, 1/14/09, Tim Gilbert <tim@jeminnovation.com> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: Tim Gilbert <tim@jeminnovation.com>
Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, January 14, 2009, 4:19 AM






Most windshield rain sensors use the index of refraction principle; however, the difference between "full" and "just wet" isn't very much.

Tim Gilbert
JEM Innovation Inc.
303-926-9053 (office)
303-437-4342 (cell)
720-890-8582 (fax)
www.jeminnovation. com
www.pdksolutions. com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Robert Tilden 
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroup s.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 8:14 PM
Subject: RE: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

Perhaps an IR reflection sensor on the outside. There may be enough of a
difference in index of refraction between air and liquid on the inside that
there will be a reflection from the air/plastic interface when empty and no
reflection when full. If you can use separate emitters/sensors you could
adjust the angle of incidence to optimize the signal difference.

Capacitance sensing would work as well, but would need more circuitry. 

------------ --------- --------- -----
Bob Tilden, tilden@northwestern .edu
High Energy Physics Group
Northwestern University

-----Original Message-----
From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroup s.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf
Of Enki
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:44 PM
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroup s.com
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

I need to measure the liquid level inside a transparent plastic 
bottle. I need to know when the liquid is below half bottle height and 
when the bottle is almost empty. Just two steps.
The plastic bottle measures 12cm high x 8cm x 3cm.
I'm not allowed to insert any probe in the bottle.
There are four bottles side by side.

I was thinking on metal plates mounted on each side of each bottle 
and using the capacitance method.

Or a B&W video camera and some processing. I could generate four 
sample windows on each video line and integrate the samples. The four 
integrated signals would represent the liquid level on each bottle.
An ATMEGA48 would do the level measurement with four ADCs.

Comments, please.

Thanks,
Mark Jordan

------------ --------- --------- ------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 














      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Liquid level measurement

2009-01-15 by David Kelly

Been waiting on someone to suggest an ultrasonic range finder to detect
the fluid level.

-- 
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net
========================================================================
Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

2009-01-15 by David VanHorn

On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Enki <enkitec@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>        I need to measure the liquid level inside a transparent plastic
> bottle. I need to know when the liquid is below half bottle height and
> when the bottle is almost empty. Just two steps.
>        The plastic bottle measures 12cm high x 8cm x 3cm.
>        I'm not allowed to insert any probe in the bottle.
>        There are four bottles side by side.

Is the liquid transparent, opaque, or uncontrolled?
If transparent, you can use the lensing effect. Shine a light source
through a bottle and observe what happens.
If opaque, then the liquid would block a beam.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Liquid level measurement

2009-01-15 by Philippe Habib

To quote myself...


or an ultrasound device bouncing off the water.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Jan 15, 2009, at 7:40 AM, David Kelly wrote:

> Been waiting on someone to suggest an ultrasonic range finder to  
> detect
> the fluid level.
>
> -- 
> David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net
> = 
> = 
> ======================================================================
> Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Liquid level measurement

2009-01-15 by David VanHorn

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Philippe Habib <phabib@well.com> wrote:
> To quote myself...
>
>
> or an ultrasound device bouncing off the water.

I didn't see where it said anything about wether the container was
capped or not.
Caps or lids would make this difficult.. :)

This sounds like an inspection point, where bottles are checked after filling.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Liquid level measurement

2009-01-15 by David Kelly

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:32:20AM -0500, David VanHorn wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Philippe Habib <phabib@well.com> wrote:
> > To quote myself...
> >
> >
> > or an ultrasound device bouncing off the water.
> 
> I didn't see where it said anything about wether the container was
> capped or not.
> Caps or lids would make this difficult.. :)
> 
> This sounds like an inspection point, where bottles are checked after
> filling.

It thought it sounded like a homework assignment. Therefore one is free
to stipulate conditions that are not specified.

-- 
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net
========================================================================
Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Liquid level measurement

2009-01-15 by David VanHorn

> It thought it sounded like a homework assignment. Therefore one is free
> to stipulate conditions that are not specified.

Yeah, it kinda does sound like homework..

Asking for ideas is cool IMHO, he's not asking for us to SOLVE it for
him, provide tested code, and assembled PCBs with complete BOM and
programmed micros... :)

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Liquid level measurement

2009-01-15 by David Kelly

On Jan 15, 2009, at 10:47 AM, David VanHorn wrote:

>> It thought it sounded like a homework assignment. Therefore one is  
>> free
>> to stipulate conditions that are not specified.
>
> Yeah, it kinda does sound like homework..
>
> Asking for ideas is cool IMHO, he's not asking for us to SOLVE it for
> him, provide tested code, and assembled PCBs with complete BOM and
> programmed micros... :)

Ditto. Big difference in asking for ideas. Much the same as a group  
discussion about a book from assigned reading vs. asking for a pre- 
written book report.

I have spent some time considering ultrasonic range finding as a means  
of measuring wheel travel on a dirtbike. Optical encoders are a  
possibility but we're talking about measurements under very nasty  
conditions. Measure the travel of *this* wheel: http://home.hiwaay.net/~dkelly/Husaberg/Pages/4.html

String and pulleys would be fairly complicated but easy to understand.  
Complex to install, especially when its not intended to be a permanent  
installation.

What I'm thinking would work best would be a pair of telescoping tubes  
with piezo exciter and microphone. Then either time how long the  
wavefront takes to echo off the end or excite with white noise and  
measure the frequency.

The same telescoping tubes should work just as well for the front forks.

Think an accelerometer on the wheel and on the fender would also be  
good to have. Not sure that the job could be done with only an  
accelerometer but having both acceleration data and absolute position  
data one could validate each with the other. Then learn how to live  
with only one or the other for future use.

--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net
========================================================================
Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Liquid level measurement

2009-01-15 by Bruce Parham

> Measure the travel of *this* wheel: http://home.hiwaay.net/~dkelly/Husaberg/Pages/4.html

No problem - add a reluctance pickup, near the chain, on the front of the drive sprocket.

As for measuring the liquid level, assuming the system is still, aim a columnated beam of 
light at the liquid surface at an angle from the side and sense the reflected spot on the 
other side.

Bruce

Re: [AVR-Chat] Liquid level measurement

2009-01-16 by Enki

On 15 Jan 2009 at 10:43, David VanHorn wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Enki <enkitec@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >        I need to measure the liquid level inside a transparent plastic
> > bottle. I need to know when the liquid is below half bottle height and
> > when the bottle is almost empty. Just two steps.
> >        The plastic bottle measures 12cm high x 8cm x 3cm.
> >        I'm not allowed to insert any probe in the bottle.
> >        There are four bottles side by side.
> 
> Is the liquid transparent, opaque, or uncontrolled?
> If transparent, you can use the lensing effect. Shine a light source
> through a bottle and observe what happens.
> If opaque, then the liquid would block a beam.
> 


	The liquid is printer ink, four colors. The four bottles are closed 
top & bottom, transparent plastic, and mounted togheter. They are spaced 
half a milimeter each. I'm not allowed to insert anything in the 
bottles.
	But I can insert copper plates between the bottles and measure the 
capacitance. Maybe that will do.
	I can also experiment with four IR beams, one for each bottle.
	I can not measure weight because the four bottles are mounted 
together. Ultrasonic seems not to be simple to do.

	Thanks for the ideas. I liked the Sensorik sensors. Have to ask for 
samples ;-)

	P.S.: this is not a homework, it is a project for a potential 
client. If my design works, they buy it.

	Mark Jordan



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Liquid level measurement

2009-01-16 by David Kelly

On Jan 15, 2009, at 4:07 PM, Bruce Parham wrote:

>> Measure the travel of *this* wheel: http://home.hiwaay.net/~dkelly/Husaberg/Pages/4.html
>
> No problem - add a reluctance pickup, near the chain, on the front  
> of the drive sprocket.


Sorry about that, didn't mean the distance the wheel rolled but the  
vertical motion for studying the suspension performance. Thats what I  
meant about the telescopic tube using ultrasonic range finding to  
record the instantaneous length of said tube.

Already have a magnet on the front brake rotor with a reed relay  
pickup driving the speedometer/odometer.

--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net
========================================================================
Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.

RE: [AVR-Chat] Re: Liquid level measurement

2009-01-16 by Darren Worley

>> Measure the travel of *this* wheel: http://home.
<http://home.hiwaay.net/~dkelly/Husaberg/Pages/4.html>
hiwaay.net/~dkelly/Husaberg/Pages/4.html

>No problem - add a reluctance pickup, near the chain, on the front of the
drive sprocket. 

I think meant how far the wheel moves up and down in relation to the frame.
Is this for the rear wheel?

LVDT? or Something simpler -> Concept: mount a 10 turn linear pot with a
negator spring and small deep section pulley directly attached to the pot
spindle. Wrap 10x with fishing line all sealed in a rubber casing that has a
tiny hole for the fishing line to escape as the actuator. Depending on your
pulley circumference (x10), depends on linear distance measurable. Wind the
pot fully anticlockwise, connect spring, then wrap the line around the
pulley clockwise. The negator spring is a constant force spring and as you
pull the fishing line it tightens up and applies constant force on the line,
and the distance moved is then a linear resistance measurement. Mount the
module above the rear plastic guard, (secondary protection against direct
mud/stone spray, and gravity works to your favour to some degree) but keep
close to the frame then drill tiny hole/slot through guard, seal with second
piece of rubber, pull fishing line though and attach to the swingarm via
swivel, but closer to the pivot point to keep away from potential sticks
etc. Any mud that collects on the string will be wiped of by the rubber
seals (similar to the front shock seals). This method may be prone to
sticks/stones/sticky mud/ though, but is ultra cheap and easy to do. I'd be
interested if you actually do this.


>As for measuring the liquid level, assuming the system is still, aim a
columnated beam of 
light at the liquid surface at an angle from the side and sense the
reflected spot on the 
other side.

>Bruce
 
Re the measuring the levels, have you considered what canon do on their ink
cartridges to measure tank capacity? 
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Fork travle - was Re: Liquid level measurement

2009-01-16 by Roy E. Burrage

Using a pot like this, especially a wire wound, 10 turn type, could be 
bad jazz.  I tried that once on a dancer arm for a textile finishing 
line to gather data.  It didn't last very long.

If cost is an issue, David, have you ever thought about making your own 
LVDT?  The L might not be very good, but it would be repeatable.  A coil 
of wire is cheap.  In a pinch the coil from an old reed relay can be 
used.  A steel rod can easily be fixed to your fork and as it extends 
and retracts into the coil it would change the frequency of an 
oscillator.  Frequency is easy to measure.

It would take some experimentation to develop a cheat sheet, I mean, a 
correction curve, for your DIY LVDT but that can also be done fairly easily.

How about a couple of linear bearings on the rod to ensure it doesn't 
flap too much?  Those aren't too expensive either.  You would probably 
need some similar mechanism for the more expensive LVDT, anyway.


REB



Darren Worley wrote:
>>> Measure the travel of *this* wheel: http://home.
>>>       
> <http://home.hiwaay.net/~dkelly/Husaberg/Pages/4.html>
> hiwaay.net/~dkelly/Husaberg/Pages/4.html
>
>   
>> No problem - add a reluctance pickup, near the chain, on the front of the
>>     
> drive sprocket. 
>
> I think meant how far the wheel moves up and down in relation to the frame.
> Is this for the rear wheel?
>
> LVDT? or Something simpler -> Concept: mount a 10 turn linear pot with a
> negator spring and small deep section pulley directly attached to the pot
> spindle. Wrap 10x with fishing line all sealed in a rubber casing that has a
> tiny hole for the fishing line to escape as the actuator. Depending on your
> pulley circumference (x10), depends on linear distance measurable. Wind the
> pot fully anticlockwise, connect spring, then wrap the line around the
> pulley clockwise. The negator spring is a constant force spring and as you
> pull the fishing line it tightens up and applies constant force on the line,
> and the distance moved is then a linear resistance measurement. Mount the
> module above the rear plastic guard, (secondary protection against direct
> mud/stone spray, and gravity works to your favour to some degree) but keep
> close to the frame then drill tiny hole/slot through guard, seal with second
> piece of rubber, pull fishing line though and attach to the swingarm via
> swivel, but closer to the pivot point to keep away from potential sticks
> etc. Any mud that collects on the string will be wiped of by the rubber
> seals (similar to the front shock seals). This method may be prone to
> sticks/stones/sticky mud/ though, but is ultra cheap and easy to do. I'd be
> interested if you actually do this.
>
>   
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Liquid level measurement

2009-01-17 by David Kelly

On Jan 15, 2009, at 8:46 PM, Darren Worley wrote:

>>> Measure the travel of *this* wheel: http://home.hiwaay.net/~dkelly/Husaberg/Pages/4.html
>>
>> No problem - add a reluctance pickup, near the chain, on the front  
>> of the drive sprocket.
>>
>
> I think meant how far the wheel moves up and down in relation to the  
> frame.  Is this for the rear wheel?
>

Front and rear.

> LVDT? or Something simpler -> Concept: mount a 10 turn linear pot  
> with a negator spring and small deep section pulley directly  
> attached to the pot spindle. Wrap 10x with fishing line all sealed  
> in a rubber casing that has a tiny hole for the fishing line to  
> escape as the actuator. Depending on your pulley circumference  
> (x10), depends on linear distance measurable. Wind the pot fully  
> anticlockwise, connect spring, then wrap the line around the pulley  
> clockwise. The negator spring is a constant force spring and as you  
> pull the fishing line it tightens up and applies constant force on  
> the line, and the distance moved is then a linear resistance  
> measurement. Mount the module above the rear plastic guard,  
> (secondary protection against direct mud/stone spray, and gravity  
> works to your favour to some degree) but keep close to the frame  
> then drill tiny hole/slot through guard, seal with second piece of  
> rubber, pull fishing line though and attach to the swingarm via  
> swivel, but closer to the pivot point to keep away from potential  
> sticks etc. Any mud that collects on the string will be wiped of by  
> the rubber seals (similar to the front shock seals). This method may  
> be prone to sticks/stones/sticky mud/ though, but is ultra cheap and  
> easy to do. I'd be interested if you actually do this.
>

Mentioned that in my original post. Thats complex and prone to break.  
Considered optical encoder in place of 10 turn pot. Also need high  
frequency response because am interested in how fast it moves up and  
down. A telescopic tube with ultrasonic rangefinder inside could be  
clipped (or taped) on the bike in seconds. Also a copy of the same  
could be mounted to the front so that front and rear data would be  
from the same kind of sensors.

The tube would be easy to damage but cheap to replace. Could be PVC or  
aluminum.

LVDT can be expensive and delicate when caked with mud.

Design range is 14". Suspension travel is 335 mm rear, 300 mm front.  
13.2" rear, 11.8" front.
http://www.husaberg.com/Specifications.242.0.html

> Re the measuring the levels, have you considered what canon do on  
> their ink cartridges to measure tank capacity?

Not sure the OP's ink is for an inkjet but possibly for a printing  
press.

If I wanted an idea of how much liquid is in a tank, I'd thump it with  
a finger and guess based on the sound.


--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net
========================================================================
Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.

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