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Studio Fuse Question

Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-24 by Jim Wagner

Greetings -

I am trying to put together a reasonable GUI for Mac users who use the  
gcc install called "AVR MacPack". It is progressing well but I have a  
problem. That is how to represent the fuse and lock bits. I would like  
to do it in the same sense as Atmel Studio. But, I don't have a  
connection to a programmer, right now, to see what the real sense is.

Sooooo... can someone tell me whether a fuse check mark in Studio  
represents "programmed" or "un-programmed".

Oh, Freaks is totally infested with MalWare. I am surprised they left  
it operating (as of a few hours ago).

Many thanks,
Jim Wagner
Oregon Research Electronics

Re: [AVR-Chat] Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-24 by John Samperi

At 03:11 PM 24/03/2009, you wrote:
>can someone tell me whether a fuse check mark in Studio
>represents "programmed" or "un-programmed".

Checked=programmed or 0

Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************

Re: [AVR-Chat] Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-24 by dlc

Yeah, but sometimes fuse programmed turns a feature on and sometimes it 
turns a feature off.  That is the MOST infuriating "feature" of the AVR 
series of parts, it's hard to tell by the documentation whether 
something is on or off!

DLC

John Samperi wrote:
> At 03:11 PM 24/03/2009, you wrote:
>> can someone tell me whether a fuse check mark in Studio
>> represents "programmed" or "un-programmed".
> 
> Checked=programmed or 0
> 
> Regards
> 
> John Samperi
> 
> ********************************************************
> Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
> 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
> Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
> Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
> *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
> ********************************************************
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Question with boldness even the existence of a God;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of the
homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
-------------------------------------------------
Dennis Clark          TTT Enterprises
www.techtoystoday.com
-------------------------------------------------

Re: [AVR-Chat] Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-24 by Jim Wagner

Thanks, John

Jim Wagner
On Mar 23, 2009, at 10:18 PM, John Samperi wrote:

> At 03:11 PM 24/03/2009, you wrote:
> >can someone tell me whether a fuse check mark in Studio
> >represents "programmed" or "un-programmed".
>
> Checked=programmed or 0
>
> Regards
>
> John Samperi
>
> ********************************************************
> Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
> 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
> Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Fax (02) 9674-8745
> Website http://www.ampertronics.com.au
> *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
> ********************************************************
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-24 by John Samperi

At 04:26 PM 24/03/2009, you wrote:
>Yeah, but sometimes fuse programmed turns a feature on and sometimes it
>turns a feature off.

??can you give us an example of when a programmed fuse turns a feature off?


Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************

Re: [AVR-Chat] Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-24 by David VanHorn

On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 1:40 AM, John Samperi
<samperi@ampertronics.com.au> wrote:
> At 04:26 PM 24/03/2009, you wrote:
>>Yeah, but sometimes fuse programmed turns a feature on and sometimes it
>>turns a feature off.
>
> ??can you give us an example of when a programmed fuse turns a feature off?

A programmed CKOPT fuse turns the low power oscillator off. (and the
high power one that you should use, on..)

Depends on your perspective, I suppose.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-25 by dlc

John,

   David gave one example, here are some more (from the MEGA168):

High Fuse Byte 	Bit No 	Description 		Default Value
RSTDISBL(1) 	7 	External Reset Disable 	1 (unprogrammed)
DWEN 		6 	debugWIRE Enable 	1 (unprogrammed)
SPIEN(2) 	5	Enable Serial Program 	0 (programmed, SPI
			and Data Downloading	  programming enabled)

Is RSTDISBL enabled or disabled by being unprogrammed?  In this case I 
believe that 1 (unprogrammed) enables the external reset.  How about 
DWEN?  In this case, I believe that a 1 disables the debugWire.  In our 
third case, a 0 (programmed) ENABLES the serial programming.

This pretty much defines confusion when it comes to dealing with AVR 
fuses I think.  I have to look at how the device behaves and then look 
at the default settings to see how to set the blasted fuses.  It isn't 
terribly obvious just by reading the documentation.

DLC

John Samperi wrote:
> At 04:26 PM 24/03/2009, you wrote:
>> Yeah, but sometimes fuse programmed turns a feature on and sometimes it
>> turns a feature off.
> 
> ??can you give us an example of when a programmed fuse turns a feature off?
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> John Samperi
> 
> ********************************************************
> Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
> 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
> Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
> Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
> *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
> ********************************************************
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Question with boldness even the existence of a God;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of the
homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
-------------------------------------------------
Dennis Clark          TTT Enterprises
www.techtoystoday.com
-------------------------------------------------

Re: [AVR-Chat] Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-25 by John Samperi

At 03:37 PM 25/03/2009, you wrote:
>High Fuse Byte  Bit No  Description             Default Value
>RSTDISBL(1)     7       External Reset Disable  1 (unprogrammed)
>DWEN            6       debugWIRE Enable        1 (unprogrammed)
>SPIEN(2)        5       Enable Serial Program   0 (programmed, SPI
>                         and Data Downloading      programming enabled)

The confusion only happens in your mind if you use some rubbish
programming interface with your programmer. :-)

A CHECKED BOX means programmed, unchecked means not programmed.

I NEVER have to worry about the bit being 0 or 1, do you?
You even seem to know where the fuse bits are located, I don't
and don't want to know. (have been using AVRs for about 10 years now)

If I want the RESET pin disabled and turn it into an I/O then I
program the RSTDISBL fuse by CHECKING the appropriate box, I guess
this would make the bit 0 but I don't really care to know.
No confusion there.

As far as DWEN is concerned I have NEVER programmed that bit but I use
DW very frequently. I simply do a "Build and Run" or "Start debug",
if the DWEN is already programmed then the debug session starts if not
I get prompted to enable DW, I say yes, follow the prompts and it JUST HAPPENS.

When I want to disable DW I do that as Atmel intended from within a debug
session. Debug > Dragon (or JTAG Mk2) options > disable DW.

Are people making their lifes more complicated than necessary?

Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************

Re: Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-25 by Graham Davies

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, John Samperi <samperi@...> wrote:

> The confusion only happens in your mind ...

I have to say that I'm with John on this.  Sometimes it's a little tricky to figure out what you can do with fuses (and lock bits) and which option you actually want, but once you're there I can't see the source of any confusion in the way AVR Studio presents the fuse state and programming options.

To my mind, all the fuse options are active when programmed.  Just look at what the fuse is called and if the fuse is programmed, then that's what you get.  Otherwise, you get the opposite.

I also think that messing with the debugWIRE enable fuse manually is just asking for trouble.

Graham.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-25 by Dennis Clark

> At 03:37 PM 25/03/2009, you wrote:
>>High Fuse Byte  Bit No  Description             Default Value
>>RSTDISBL(1)     7       External Reset Disable  1 (unprogrammed)
>>DWEN            6       debugWIRE Enable        1 (unprogrammed)
>>SPIEN(2)        5       Enable Serial Program   0 (programmed, SPI
>>                         and Data Downloading      programming enabled)
>
> The confusion only happens in your mind if you use some rubbish
> programming interface with your programmer. :-)

  Ah well, I guess that I use a rubbish programmer interface, since it's a
CLI on a UNIX type box - I don't use AVRstudio.

DLC

> A CHECKED BOX means programmed, unchecked means not programmed.
>
> I NEVER have to worry about the bit being 0 or 1, do you?
> You even seem to know where the fuse bits are located, I don't
> and don't want to know. (have been using AVRs for about 10 years now)
>
> If I want the RESET pin disabled and turn it into an I/O then I
> program the RSTDISBL fuse by CHECKING the appropriate box, I guess
> this would make the bit 0 but I don't really care to know.
> No confusion there.
>
> As far as DWEN is concerned I have NEVER programmed that bit but I use
> DW very frequently. I simply do a "Build and Run" or "Start debug",
> if the DWEN is already programmed then the debug session starts if not
> I get prompted to enable DW, I say yes, follow the prompts and it JUST
> HAPPENS.
>
> When I want to disable DW I do that as Atmel intended from within a debug
> session. Debug > Dragon (or JTAG Mk2) options > disable DW.
>
> Are people making their lifes more complicated than necessary?
>
> Regards
>
> John Samperi
>
> ********************************************************
> Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
> 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
> Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
> Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
> *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
> ********************************************************
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


-- 
Dennis Clark
TTT Enterprises

Re: Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-25 by Graham Davies

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Clark" <dlc@...> wrote:
>
> Gosh, I feel terrible that I'm not a Windows user now.

I didn't say anything about Windows.  I just said that AVR Studio presents fuse programming in a way that I don't find confusing.  It isn't my fault that AVR Studio only runs on Windows, nor am I implying that all the tools that do run on other platforms are inadequate.  But, if you're finding fuses confusing, you may want to look for more help from your programming tools.

Graham.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-25 by Dennis Clark

> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, John Samperi <samperi@...> wrote:
>
>> The confusion only happens in your mind ...
>
> I have to say that I'm with John on this.  Sometimes it's a little tricky
> to figure out what you can do with fuses (and lock bits) and which option
> you actually want, but once you're there I can't see the source of any
> confusion in the way AVR Studio presents the fuse state and programming
> options.
>
> To my mind, all the fuse options are active when programmed.  Just look at
> what the fuse is called and if the fuse is programmed, then that's what
> you get.  Otherwise, you get the opposite.
>
> I also think that messing with the debugWIRE enable fuse manually is just
> asking for trouble.

 Gosh, I feel terrible that I'm not a Windows user now.

DLC

> Graham.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


-- 
Dennis Clark
TTT Enterprises

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-25 by Dennis Clark

> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Clark" <dlc@...> wrote:
>>
>> Gosh, I feel terrible that I'm not a Windows user now.
>
> I didn't say anything about Windows.  I just said that AVR Studio presents
> fuse programming in a way that I don't find confusing.  It isn't my fault
> that AVR Studio only runs on Windows, nor am I implying that all the tools
> that do run on other platforms are inadequate.  But, if you're finding
> fuses confusing, you may want to look for more help from your programming
> tools.

Now I feel bad about making a snarky reply...  I'm finding it humorous
that on the ARM group I'm chastised for wanting the IDE to handle more of
the details for me and being told that "real men" use makefiles and file
editors to program, and this list is exactly the opposite - I'm advised to
stick with the factory IDE and let it handle the details.

I do my development on a Mac OSX system using Eclipse/AVR plugin and my
programmer tool is avrdude which is a CLI tool.  I have to read and
understand the data sheets to properly set fuses, and I haven't even TRIED
to get debugging working through GDB and Avarice yet.

DLC

> Graham.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


-- 
Dennis Clark
TTT Enterprises

Re: Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-25 by Graham Davies

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Clark" <dlc@...> wrote:

> Now I feel bad about making
> a snarky reply ...

As snarky remarks go, that one was well within the bounds of acceptable discourse.

> ... on the ARM group I'm chastised
> for wanting the IDE to handle more of
> the details for me and being told that
> "real men" use makefiles and file
> editors to program, and this list
> is exactly the opposite - I'm advised
> to stick with the factory IDE and let
> it handle the details.

You might still be misreading this.  "Real" real men do whatever makes them most productive, without apology, but with tolerance for the methods of others.  I think here a couple of us have proposed a solution to your problem that involves the use of AVR Studio, but that doesn't generalize to the entire group being advocates of IDE-only programming.  On the ARM group, you've probably attracted the attention of some command-line zealots.  When someone makes a suggestion, that's all it is, a suggestion.  You should stir what we say into the melting-pot of your own knowledge and come up with a solution that fits your own needs and style.

Graham.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-25 by John Samperi

At 05:46 AM 26/03/2009, you wrote:
>  avrdude which is a CLI tool.

I used to love CLI stuff....last century, when I was young. :-)

They did have a GUI for it and someone is trying to revive it,
but I guess the REAL MEN are resisting.


Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************

Re: [AVR-Chat] Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-25 by John Samperi

At 02:16 AM 26/03/2009, you wrote:
>   Ah well, I guess that I use a rubbish programmer interface, since it's a
>CLI on a UNIX type box - I don't use AVRstudio.

You said it brother. :-) I guess ponyprog is it's nearest cousin for
destroying chips.

Why can't a UNIX box have a GUI? Is it a religious thing?
(see other reply)

Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-25 by Roy E. Burrage

Yesterday, when I was young ...

How's the rest of that old Roy Clark song go?


REB



John Samperi wrote:
> At 05:46 AM 26/03/2009, you wrote:
>   
>>  avrdude which is a CLI tool.
>>     
>
> I used to love CLI stuff....last century, when I was young. :-)
>
> They did have a GUI for it and someone is trying to revive it,
> but I guess the REAL MEN are resisting.
>
>
> Regards
>
> John Samperi


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-25 by Russell Shaw

John Samperi wrote:
> At 02:16 AM 26/03/2009, you wrote:
>>   Ah well, I guess that I use a rubbish programmer interface, since it's a
>> CLI on a UNIX type box - I don't use AVRstudio.
> 
> You said it brother. :-) I guess ponyprog is it's nearest cousin for
> destroying chips.
> 
> Why can't a UNIX box have a GUI? Is it a religious thing?
> (see other reply)

Because unix programmers are incompetent for anything to do with gui
programming.

It all started with X windows from day 1 and went down hill from there.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-26 by John Samperi

At 09:50 AM 26/03/2009, you wrote:
>Because unix programmers are incompetent for anything to do with gui
>programming.

GREAT!! Finally a war. LOL

This place is pretty quite without the good asm vs C or
compiler wars.

So a programmer (as in avrdude not people) war c/w OS war would
be great. LOL LOL

Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-26 by dlc

But the GUI was written for Windows.  I'm considering a GUI that is more 
universal, say JAVA or Python.  Anything would help!  Avrdude is a good 
tool, but as you say it is SO 20th century!

DLC

John Samperi wrote:
> At 05:46 AM 26/03/2009, you wrote:
>>  avrdude which is a CLI tool.
> 
> I used to love CLI stuff....last century, when I was young. :-)
> 
> They did have a GUI for it and someone is trying to revive it,
> but I guess the REAL MEN are resisting.
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> John Samperi
> 
> ********************************************************
> Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
> 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
> Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
> Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
> *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
> ********************************************************
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Question with boldness even the existence of a God;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of the
homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
-------------------------------------------------
Dennis Clark          TTT Enterprises
www.techtoystoday.com
-------------------------------------------------

Re: [AVR-Chat] Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-26 by dlc

Frankly, I just think that no one has ever gone through the bother of 
doing one.  In the ARM world you are a woosie for not doing everything 
the hard way - Which is one of the reasons I haven't gotten very far in 
the ARM world I guess.  Windows has some good tools, but nothing ever 
gets past Windows.  M$ has the 800 pound gorilla, every other OS is just 
a Lemur by comparison and gets commensurate attention.

DLC

John Samperi wrote:
> At 02:16 AM 26/03/2009, you wrote:
>>   Ah well, I guess that I use a rubbish programmer interface, since it's a
>> CLI on a UNIX type box - I don't use AVRstudio.
> 
> You said it brother. :-) I guess ponyprog is it's nearest cousin for
> destroying chips.
> 
> Why can't a UNIX box have a GUI? Is it a religious thing?
> (see other reply)
> 
> Regards
> 
> John Samperi
> 
> ********************************************************
> Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
> 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
> Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
> Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
> *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
> ********************************************************
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Question with boldness even the existence of a God;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of the
homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
-------------------------------------------------
Dennis Clark          TTT Enterprises
www.techtoystoday.com
-------------------------------------------------

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-26 by dlc

Graham Davies wrote:
> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Clark" <dlc@...> wrote:
> 
>> Now I feel bad about making
>> a snarky reply ...
> 
> As snarky remarks go, that one was well within the bounds of acceptable discourse.
> 
>> ... on the ARM group I'm chastised
>> for wanting the IDE to handle more of
>> the details for me and being told that
>> "real men" use makefiles and file
>> editors to program, and this list
>> is exactly the opposite - I'm advised
>> to stick with the factory IDE and let
>> it handle the details.
> 
> You might still be misreading this.  "Real" real men do whatever makes them most productive, without apology, but with tolerance for the methods of others.  I think here a couple of us have proposed a solution to your problem that involves the use of AVR Studio, but that doesn't generalize to the entire group being advocates of IDE-only programming.  On the ARM group, you've probably attracted the attention of some command-line zealots.  When someone makes a suggestion, that's all it is, a suggestion.  You should stir what we say into the melting-pot of your own knowledge and come up with a solution that fits your own needs and style.

Oh quit lecturing.  I've used just about every tool around.  I use 
Windows stuff when I have to, I'm just not fond of Windows.  By 
comparison though things are way easier there than on my chosen 
platform, the Mac which I use for everything else.  But I'm still 
looking for a way to just stick with one OS.  That solution just doesn't 
exit.

DLC

> Graham.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Question with boldness even the existence of a God;
because, if there be one, he must more approve of the
homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson
-------------------------------------------------
Dennis Clark          TTT Enterprises
www.techtoystoday.com
-------------------------------------------------

Re: [AVR-Chat] Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-26 by John Samperi

At 03:30 PM 26/03/2009, you wrote:
>Frankly, I just think that no one has ever gone through the bother of
>doing one.

There was a GUI for avrdude a few years ago, I even tried it.
Here is a relevant thread on avrfreaks:
http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=73940&highlight=gui 


Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-26 by Tim McDonough

Without getting into the OS "war" I have a fuse question.

AVR Studio uses GCC and of course it can also be used as a command 
line tool along with avrdude, etc. Is there any universal way to 
specify the fuse settings you want within the C source code and have 
it picked up by the programing tools? A pragma perhaps?

Tim

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Studio Fuse Question

2009-03-26 by John Samperi

At 04:27 AM 27/03/2009, you wrote:
>Is there any universal way to
>specify the fuse settings you want within the C source code and have
>it picked up by the programing tools? A pragma perhaps?

I believe there is and not just for C. Not too sure how it all works
but later versions of Studio have facility where an single ELF file
can be supplied for production which contains all the required data
for flash, EEPROM and fuses. (3rd programming window below the EEPROM
programming window).

I have not used this facility so far, it should be spelled out in the Studio
docs I guess.



Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************

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