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Basic question about breadboards

Basic question about breadboards

2011-10-21 by jstockma

I am a AVR hobbyist and I am currently working on a project to design and program a two wire interface between to Mega AVRs in which one would send instructions to the second directing certain tasks. I have the software side of it well underway but I am having doubts about the hardware part of it. I have determined that I must power each chip from the same power source (in this case a voltage regulator) and that I must connect the two wire busses to a common ground. What I am concerned with is my basic choice to implement this on a breadboard. The busses would be the side rails. I am seeing conflicting opinions about breadboards and their suitability. I would be interested in more views on this from the group. Ultimately I can go with a soldered solution, but I would like to do the prototypes on a breadboard if possible, at least until I get it up and running. I have no EE or EE Computer science training. Thanks,

Re: [AVR-Chat] Basic question about breadboards

2011-10-23 by bobgardner@aol.com

Just run a wire from the 5V bus and the Gnd bus on the first breadboard to the second breadboard. Each should have a Big Electrolytic and a couple of .1 caps. 
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-----Original Message-----
From: jstockma <jcs1@msn.com>
To: AVR-Chat <AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Oct 22, 2011 10:32 pm
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Basic question about breadboards


I am a AVR hobbyist and I am currently working on a project to design and 
rogram a two wire interface between to Mega AVRs in which one would send 
nstructions to the second directing certain tasks. I have the software side of 
t well underway but I am having doubts about the hardware part of it. I have 
etermined that I must power each chip from the same power source (in this case 
 voltage regulator) and that I must connect the two wire busses to a common 
round. What I am concerned with is my basic choice to implement this on a 
readboard. The busses would be the side rails. I am seeing conflicting opinions 
bout breadboards and their suitability. I would be interested in more views on 
his from the group. Ultimately I can go with a soldered solution, but I would 
ike to do the prototypes on a breadboard if possible, at least until I get it 
p and running. I have no EE or EE Computer science training. Thanks, 

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RE: [AVR-Chat] Basic question about breadboards

2011-10-23 by Dave McLaughlin

They can have separate supplies if you need this capability. You just need
to connect the GND of each to get a common voltage point. Use the same
voltage of supply at each board and use good decoupling at the power entry
points of the board and close to the processor power pins.

 

How long is the final intended connection of each board? I2C is Inter IC
Communications bus and really intended for all being on the same PCB or
within the same chassis. It is not designed for long cables.

 

If you need longer link, you can consider implementing RS485?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of jstockma
Sent: 22 October 2011 07:31
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Basic question about breadboards

 

  

I am a AVR hobbyist and I am currently working on a project to design and
program a two wire interface between to Mega AVRs in which one would send
instructions to the second directing certain tasks. I have the software side
of it well underway but I am having doubts about the hardware part of it. I
have determined that I must power each chip from the same power source (in
this case a voltage regulator) and that I must connect the two wire busses
to a common ground. What I am concerned with is my basic choice to implement
this on a breadboard. The busses would be the side rails. I am seeing
conflicting opinions about breadboards and their suitability. I would be
interested in more views on this from the group. Ultimately I can go with a
soldered solution, but I would like to do the prototypes on a breadboard if
possible, at least until I get it up and running. I have no EE or EE
Computer science training. Thanks, 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Basic question about breadboards

2011-10-23 by tim gilbert

You probably don't need to run off the same power supply but, if by 'two wire' you mean I2C-like, then you do need the same ground (and don't forget the pull up resistors).

There's no reason this won't work on a breadboard using DIP components. Been there done that (probably before you were even born.)

Of course, I would ask why you're doing it this way. I've found that good old RS232 is a lot easier for most things but that depends on your application.


Regards,


Tim Gilbert
JEM Innovation Inc.
303-926-9053 (office)
303-437-4342 (cell)
www.jeminnovation.com
www.pdksolutions.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jstockma 
  To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 6:31 PM
  Subject: [AVR-Chat] Basic question about breadboards


    
  I am a AVR hobbyist and I am currently working on a project to design and program a two wire interface between to Mega AVRs in which one would send instructions to the second directing certain tasks. I have the software side of it well underway but I am having doubts about the hardware part of it. I have determined that I must power each chip from the same power source (in this case a voltage regulator) and that I must connect the two wire busses to a common ground. What I am concerned with is my basic choice to implement this on a breadboard. The busses would be the side rails. I am seeing conflicting opinions about breadboards and their suitability. I would be interested in more views on this from the group. Ultimately I can go with a soldered solution, but I would like to do the prototypes on a breadboard if possible, at least until I get it up and running. I have no EE or EE Computer science training. Thanks, 



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Basic question about breadboards

2011-10-23 by jstockma

Thanks, woulf  the internal pulls ups be sufficient? My design includes external pull up resistors.
John Stockman

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "tim gilbert" <tim@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> You probably don't need to run off the same power supply but, if by 'two wire' you mean I2C-like, then you do need the same ground (and don't forget the pull up resistors).
> 
> There's no reason this won't work on a breadboard using DIP components. Been there done that (probably before you were even born.)
> 
> Of course, I would ask why you're doing it this way. I've found that good old RS232 is a lot easier for most things but that depends on your application.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Tim Gilbert
> JEM Innovation Inc.
> 303-926-9053 (office)
> 303-437-4342 (cell)
> www.jeminnovation.com
> www.pdksolutions.com
> 
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: jstockma 
>   To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 6:31 PM
>   Subject: [AVR-Chat] Basic question about breadboards
> 
> 
>     
>   I am a AVR hobbyist and I am currently working on a project to design and program a two wire interface between to Mega AVRs in which one would send instructions to the second directing certain tasks. I have the software side of it well underway but I am having doubts about the hardware part of it. I have determined that I must power each chip from the same power source (in this case a voltage regulator) and that I must connect the two wire busses to a common ground. What I am concerned with is my basic choice to implement this on a breadboard. The busses would be the side rails. I am seeing conflicting opinions about breadboards and their suitability. I would be interested in more views on this from the group. Ultimately I can go with a soldered solution, but I would like to do the prototypes on a breadboard if possible, at least until I get it up and running. I have no EE or EE Computer science training. Thanks, 
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [AVR-Chat] Basic question about breadboards

2011-10-23 by Philippe Habib

If you must use I2C for some reason, you can get some range extender chips that will let you go for 10s of Meters.  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave McLaughlin" <dave_mclaughlin@nerdshack.com>
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2011 8:14:27 PM
Subject: RE: [AVR-Chat] Basic question about breadboards

They can have separate supplies if you need this capability. You just need
to connect the GND of each to get a common voltage point. Use the same
voltage of supply at each board and use good decoupling at the power entry
points of the board and close to the processor power pins.

 

How long is the final intended connection of each board? I2C is Inter IC
Communications bus and really intended for all being on the same PCB or
within the same chassis. It is not designed for long cables.

 

If you need longer link, you can consider implementing RS485?

 

From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of jstockma
Sent: 22 October 2011 07:31
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Basic question about breadboards

 

  

I am a AVR hobbyist and I am currently working on a project to design and
program a two wire interface between to Mega AVRs in which one would send
instructions to the second directing certain tasks. I have the software side
of it well underway but I am having doubts about the hardware part of it. I
have determined that I must power each chip from the same power source (in
this case a voltage regulator) and that I must connect the two wire busses
to a common ground. What I am concerned with is my basic choice to implement
this on a breadboard. The busses would be the side rails. I am seeing
conflicting opinions about breadboards and their suitability. I would be
interested in more views on this from the group. Ultimately I can go with a
soldered solution, but I would like to do the prototypes on a breadboard if
possible, at least until I get it up and running. I have no EE or EE
Computer science training. Thanks, 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

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Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Basic question about breadboards

2011-10-23 by tim gilbert

That depends, if you're writing all your own code you could make it work but if you're using any standard I2C parts you will almost certainly need the 3.9K resistors to meet the timing.


Regards,

Tim Gilbert
JEM Innovation Inc.
303-926-9053 (office)
303-437-4342 (cell)
www.jeminnovation.com
www.pdksolutions.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: jstockma 
  To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 4:24 PM
  Subject: [AVR-Chat] Re: Basic question about breadboards


    
  Thanks, woulf the internal pulls ups be sufficient? My design includes external pull up resistors.
  John Stockman

  --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "tim gilbert" <tim@...> wrote:
  >
  > You probably don't need to run off the same power supply but, if by 'two wire' you mean I2C-like, then you do need the same ground (and don't forget the pull up resistors).
  > 
  > There's no reason this won't work on a breadboard using DIP components. Been there done that (probably before you were even born.)
  > 
  > Of course, I would ask why you're doing it this way. I've found that good old RS232 is a lot easier for most things but that depends on your application.
  > 
  > 
  > Regards,
  > 
  > 
  > Tim Gilbert
  > JEM Innovation Inc.
  > 303-926-9053 (office)
  > 303-437-4342 (cell)
  > www.jeminnovation.com
  > www.pdksolutions.com
  > 
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: jstockma 
  > To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com 
  > Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 6:31 PM
  > Subject: [AVR-Chat] Basic question about breadboards
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > I am a AVR hobbyist and I am currently working on a project to design and program a two wire interface between to Mega AVRs in which one would send instructions to the second directing certain tasks. I have the software side of it well underway but I am having doubts about the hardware part of it. I have determined that I must power each chip from the same power source (in this case a voltage regulator) and that I must connect the two wire busses to a common ground. What I am concerned with is my basic choice to implement this on a breadboard. The busses would be the side rails. I am seeing conflicting opinions about breadboards and their suitability. I would be interested in more views on this from the group. Ultimately I can go with a soldered solution, but I would like to do the prototypes on a breadboard if possible, at least until I get it up and running. I have no EE or EE Computer science training. Thanks, 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >



  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Basic question about breadboards

2011-10-23 by Jim Wagner

No, the internal pullups are just a little too large. The issue is speed. The clock and data rise times are entirely set by line capacitance and resistor value. 

If you are willing to run slower than maximum speed, then you probably could manage with the internal pullups.

Jim Wagner
Oregon Research Electronics

On Oct 23, 2011, at 3:24 PM, jstockma wrote:

> Thanks, woulf the internal pulls ups be sufficient? My design includes external pull up resistors.
> John Stockman
> 
> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "tim gilbert" <tim@...> wrote:
> >
> > You probably don't need to run off the same power supply but, if by 'two wire' you mean I2C-like, then you do need the same ground (and don't forget the pull up resistors).
> > 
> > There's no reason this won't work on a breadboard using DIP components. Been there done that (probably before you were even born.)
> > 
> > Of course, I would ask why you're doing it this way. I've found that good old RS232 is a lot easier for most things but that depends on your application.
> > 
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > 
> > Tim Gilbert
> > JEM Innovation Inc.
> > 303-926-9053 (office)
> > 303-437-4342 (cell)
> > www.jeminnovation.com
> > www.pdksolutions.com
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: jstockma 
> > To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com 
> > Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 6:31 PM
> > Subject: [AVR-Chat] Basic question about breadboards
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I am a AVR hobbyist and I am currently working on a project to design and program a two wire interface between to Mega AVRs in which one would send instructions to the second directing certain tasks. I have the software side of it well underway but I am having doubts about the hardware part of it. I have determined that I must power each chip from the same power source (in this case a voltage regulator) and that I must connect the two wire busses to a common ground. What I am concerned with is my basic choice to implement this on a breadboard. The busses would be the side rails. I am seeing conflicting opinions about breadboards and their suitability. I would be interested in more views on this from the group. Ultimately I can go with a soldered solution, but I would like to do the prototypes on a breadboard if possible, at least until I get it up and running. I have no EE or EE Computer science training. Thanks, 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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