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2012-09-24 by AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the AVR-Chat group: What version of Studio do you feel is most reliable? o 4.19 or earlier o 5.X o 6 To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AVR-Chat/surveys?id=13153903 Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks!
2012-09-24 by John Samperi
At 01:09 AM 25/09/2012, you wrote: >What version of Studio do you feel is most reliable? Is there a POINT to this? Does it matter what we think or what Atmel thinks is the future direction? I still use 4.18, AS5 should not even be considered as it was simply a bug ridden early release. If you want to use newer chips then you are stuck to AS6 and whichever comes later on. Regards John Samperi ******************************************************** Ampertronics Pty. Ltd. 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Website http://www.ampertronics.com.au *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly ********************************************************
2012-09-24 by David Kelly
On Sep 24, 2012, at 4:25 PM, John Samperi wrote: > At 01:09 AM 25/09/2012, you wrote: >> What version of Studio do you feel is most reliable? > > Is there a POINT to this? Does it matter what we think or what > Atmel thinks is the future direction? I think its a useful way to stick our thumb's in Atmel's eye and create a bit of discomfort. So when I saw the survey, I clicked. > I still use 4.18, AS5 should not even be considered as it was > simply a bug ridden early release. If you want to use newer chips > then you are stuck to AS6 and whichever comes later on. Yup. I got stuck with AS6 that way. AS6 reminds me of my early distaste for Microchip's software. Not so sure the problem is with super slow resource hog VS10 IDE as it is with someone having gone hog wild with optimizations in GCC 4.x and lost debugging information. I know full well code can get optimized out and moved around but this is worse than that. Digging in the Disassembly view I can find the line I am trying to breakpoint, often a line or line and a half above where the debugger set the breakpoint. No excuses, its just wrong. And by setting breakpoints in the wrong place, they often do not trigger. At least sometimes the debugger admits it doesn't know where to lay a breakpoint when one tries. Go try surrounding lines trying to find one that will break. Go surfing in Disassembly view to find a suitable breakpoint. The ASF stuff is a nice attempt but with seemingly 95% of it implemented in include files as inline code, its a mess to debug when gcc gets all confused about inline code, and line numbers, and the debugger can't set breakpoints in the proper places. AS 4.18 was a nice sharp knife but AS6 is like cutting butter with a baseball bat. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net ============================================================ Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2012-09-24 by John Samperi
At 07:42 AM 25/09/2012, you wrote: >AS 4.18 was a nice sharp knife but AS6 is like cutting butter with a >baseball bat. I still haven't even downloaded AS5/6, can't afford to be messed around with and not do any work. However with the upcoming demise of win XP and the possible need to use newer chips I got a new laptop yesterday which I will use with AS6 when the next release is out. Maybe I'll just use the newer JTAG Mk3 with it and leave all my other stuff untouched untill I can trust ASxxx. Win7 is already a new headache and win8 is just around the corner so I will need to get used to the beasts. It's a nuisance that we need to continuously upgrade stuff which works well otherwise and one doesn't really need the bells and whistles attached to a new O/S. I don't think I'm doing anything newer or better work wise than when I was using win 3.1 or even DOS. Regards John Samperi ******************************************************** Ampertronics Pty. Ltd. 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Website http://www.ampertronics.com.au *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly ********************************************************
2012-09-24 by Trevor Bryant
I use AVR Studio 4.19 on two of my computers with no problems. Both are Intel quad-core, one is running Windows 7 Pro 64bit (4GB DDR3), the other Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit (8GB DDR3). I have no problems with either setup - in the code or in the programming of my micros. That's not to say there may not be issues somewhere, I just haven't found any that affect the work that I do. Cheers, Trevor Bryant On 9/24/2012 6:04 PM, John Samperi wrote: > > At 07:42 AM 25/09/2012, you wrote: > >AS 4.18 was a nice sharp knife but AS6 is like cutting butter with a > >baseball bat. > > I still haven't even downloaded AS5/6, can't afford to be messed > around with and not do any work. > > However with the upcoming demise of win XP and the possible need > to use newer chips I got a new laptop yesterday which I will use > with AS6 when the next release is out. Maybe I'll just use the newer > JTAG Mk3 with it and leave all my other stuff untouched untill I can > trust ASxxx. > > Win7 is already a new headache and win8 is just around the corner > so I will need to get used to the beasts. > > It's a nuisance that we need to continuously upgrade stuff which works > well otherwise and one doesn't really need the bells and whistles attached > to a new O/S. > > I don't think I'm doing anything newer or better work wise than when I was > using win 3.1 or even DOS. > > Regards > > John Samperi > > ******************************************************** > Ampertronics Pty. Ltd. > 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA > Tel. (02) 9674-6495 > Website http://www.ampertronics.com.au > *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly > ******************************************************** > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2012-09-24 by Jim Wagner
There will be "problems" as new devices are introduced and definition files for 4.xx are not updated. Jim Wagner Oregon Research Electronics
----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor Bryant" <yrunot@shaw.ca> To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:14:25 PM Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] New poll for AVR-Chat I use AVR Studio 4.19 on two of my computers with no problems. Both are Intel quad-core, one is running Windows 7 Pro 64bit (4GB DDR3), the other Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit (8GB DDR3). I have no problems with either setup - in the code or in the programming of my micros. That's not to say there may not be issues somewhere, I just haven't found any that affect the work that I do. Cheers, Trevor Bryant [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2012-09-25 by R E Purcella
is it possible for users to update the definition files? rep
On 9/24/2012 3:24 PM, Jim Wagner wrote: > > There will be "problems" as new devices are introduced and definition > files for 4.xx are not updated. > > Jim Wagner > Oregon Research Electronics > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Trevor Bryant" <yrunot@shaw.ca <mailto:yrunot%40shaw.ca>> > To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AVR-Chat%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:14:25 PM > Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] New poll for AVR-Chat > > I use AVR Studio 4.19 on two of my computers with no problems. Both are > Intel quad-core, one is running Windows 7 Pro 64bit (4GB DDR3), the > other Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit (8GB DDR3). > > I have no problems with either setup - in the code or in the programming > of my micros. That's not to say there may not be issues somewhere, I > just haven't found any that affect the work that I do. > > Cheers, > Trevor Bryant > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >
2012-09-25 by Jim Wagner
I suspect that it is possible but not easy. They are text files. Jim Wagner On Sep 24, 2012, at 5:13 PM, R E Purcella wrote: > is it possible for users to update the definition files? > > rep > On 9/24/2012 3:24 PM, Jim Wagner wrote: > > > > There will be "problems" as new devices are introduced and definition > > files for 4.xx are not updated. > > > > Jim Wagner > > Oregon Research Electronics > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Trevor Bryant" <yrunot@shaw.ca <mailto:yrunot%40shaw.ca>> > > To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com <mailto:AVR-Chat%40yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2012 3:14:25 PM > > Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] New poll for AVR-Chat > > > > I use AVR Studio 4.19 on two of my computers with no problems. Both are > > Intel quad-core, one is running Windows 7 Pro 64bit (4GB DDR3), the > > other Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit (8GB DDR3). > > > > I have no problems with either setup - in the code or in the programming > > of my micros. That's not to say there may not be issues somewhere, I > > just haven't found any that affect the work that I do. > > > > Cheers, > > Trevor Bryant > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2012-09-26 by bayramdavies
--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, John Samperi <samperi@...> wrote: > ... with the upcoming demise of win XP ... I understand that MicroSoft is ending support for XP soon, but could you clarify what you mean by the "demise of win XP", please? I have been planning to continue to use XP indefinitely. Nothing that MicroSoft has done since XP has any value to me and I can't afford the time to grapple with a new OS. Graham.
2012-09-26 by bayramdavies
--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, John Samperi <samperi@...> wrote: > Is there a POINT to this? Does it > matter what we think or what Atmel > thinks is the future direction? The poll specifically asks "What version of Studio .. is most reliable?" Reliability is important to me, so, yes, I think there is a point. Even though I hate the sluggishness of AS6 and don't want to have to re-learn how to use my tool set, if it turns out to be way more reliable I will probably bite the bullet. On the other hand, who is going to be able to vote on this poll? Only people with enough experience with all of the candidates to have a valid opinion of their reliability. That rules out everyone like me who is sticking with AS4. I worry that people will vote against AS6 for reasons other than reliability, i.e. that it is barely usable. So maybe in November when I get to see the results I won't believe them anyway, which means there may not be a point after all. Graham.
2012-09-26 by David Kelly
On Sep 26, 2012, at 7:15 AM, bayramdavies wrote: > The poll specifically asks "What version of Studio .. is most reliable?" Reliability is important to me, so, yes, I think there is a point. Even though I hate the sluggishness of AS6 and don't want to have to re-learn how to use my tool set, if it turns out to be way more reliable I will probably bite the bullet. Going back to 2005-2006 with whatever version of Studio and WinAVR with gcc somewhere around 3.3.1 the biggest problem I had was an observation that gcc was sometimes emitting two RET's at end of functions. No big deal, was only about 0.08% code bloat. By the end of 3.3 into 3.4 this was fixed. Those were the Good Old Days. I was in a much better debugging environment there than later with a 68HC16 and CodeWarrior. With AS6 there is not good synchronization between debugger and source code. Its rather poor and its not due to aggressive optimization (which is also present). It is a touch better with all optimizations off. AS6 might be more acceptable with an older gcc or with a purchased compiler. -- David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net ============================================================ Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
2012-09-26 by John Samperi
At 10:05 PM 26/09/2012, you wrote: >I understand that MicroSoft is ending support for XP soon, >but could you clarify what you mean by the "demise of win XP", please? It will be similar to what happened when win 98 stopped being supported. I had to upgrade my laptop to win XP as the anti-virus I was using stopped supporting win 98. Then AVR Studio was no longer supporting win 98 etc. I was also hoping to use win XP indefinitely but unfortunately the reality is that you can't really work with newer tools if one sticks to older O/S. And yes I get cranky too that I will need to eventually throw away 2 perfectly working desktop computers which may not be able to run win 7 or the soon to be released win 8. Just got a new laptop on Monday running win 7 as my old laptop is not really able to run AS6 which is required if one wants to attend Atmel's seminars in November in Australia. It took 2.5 hours of downloads, updates and installs before AS6 was ready to run. If you are coming to the Atmel's seminars we will see each other there. :-) Regards John Samperi ******************************************************** Ampertronics Pty. Ltd. 11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA Tel. (02) 9674-6495 Website http://www.ampertronics.com.au *Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly ********************************************************