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R/C throttle control ?

R/C throttle control ?

2005-09-04 by Dave Mucha

Hi all,

I'm trying to find more data about the R/C throttle control.

as I am to understand, the control input to an
ElectronicSpeedController (ESC) is over a repetitive 20mS frame.  and
in that frame there is a range between 0.5 and 2.0mS that is the value.  

That would make it so 0.5mS is a zero speed and 2.0mS would be 100% speed.

am I correct on this?
does anyone have a schematic for an ESC for a burshless motor ?

I'm looking for a 25,000 RPM motor to use on a PCB drilling machine
and these seem small enough and high speed enough to do the job. 
Unfortunatly, the combination of motor and ESC can run upwards of $1750 !

Any comments or suggestion are welcome.

Dave

Re: [AVR-Chat] R/C throttle control ?

2005-09-04 by Russell Shaw

Dave Mucha wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm trying to find more data about the R/C throttle control.
> 
> as I am to understand, the control input to an
> ElectronicSpeedController (ESC) is over a repetitive 20mS frame.  and
> in that frame there is a range between 0.5 and 2.0mS that is the value.  
> 
> That would make it so 0.5mS is a zero speed and 2.0mS would be 100% speed.
> 
> am I correct on this?
> does anyone have a schematic for an ESC for a burshless motor ?
> 
> I'm looking for a 25,000 RPM motor to use on a PCB drilling machine
> and these seem small enough and high speed enough to do the job. 
> Unfortunatly, the combination of motor and ESC can run upwards of $1750 !
> 
> Any comments or suggestion are welcome.
> 
> Dave

If it's a 3-phase induction motor, you just need to generate a 3-phase sinewave
drive where the amplitude increases with frequency, and slowly ramp up the
frequency when starting the motor.

Re: [AVR-Chat] R/C throttle control ?

2005-09-04 by erikc

Dave Mucha wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm trying to find more data about the R/C throttle control.
> 
> as I am to understand, the control input to an
> ElectronicSpeedController (ESC) is over a repetitive 20mS frame.  and
> in that frame there is a range between 0.5 and 2.0mS that is the value.  
> 
> That would make it so 0.5mS is a zero speed and 2.0mS would be 100% speed.
> 
> am I correct on this?
> does anyone have a schematic for an ESC for a burshless motor ?
> 
> I'm looking for a 25,000 RPM motor to use on a PCB drilling machine
> and these seem small enough and high speed enough to do the job. 
> Unfortunatly, the combination of motor and ESC can run upwards of $1750 !
> 
> Any comments or suggestion are welcome.
> 
> Dave

Have you considered using a Dremel or similar motor and mounting it into 
some kind of holder?


-- 
erikc
--
"The kind of man who wants the government to adopt and enforce his
ideas is always the kind of man whose ideas are idiotic."
    -- H. L. Mencken

Re: [AVR-Chat] R/C throttle control ?

2005-09-04 by Kevin

Dave,

Dave Mucha wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm trying to find more data about the R/C throttle control.
> 
> as I am to understand, the control input to an
> ElectronicSpeedController (ESC) is over a repetitive 20mS frame.  and
> in that frame there is a range between 0.5 and 2.0mS that is the value.  

   Not quite.  The standard is a 1ms to 2ms pulse, with 1.5ms being the 
center, every 20ms.  Most servos or whatever are happy with .8 to 2.2, 
going further than that is problematical.

> That would make it so 0.5mS is a zero speed and 2.0mS would be 100% speed.

   1ms is full to one direction or speed, 2ms is full to the other 
direction or speed.  Zero is 1.5ms.

> am I correct on this?
> does anyone have a schematic for an ESC for a burshless motor ?

THOSE types of controllers are family jewels, you might find some open 
source stuff out there though.

> I'm looking for a 25,000 RPM motor to use on a PCB drilling machine
> and these seem small enough and high speed enough to do the job. 
> Unfortunatly, the combination of motor and ESC can run upwards of $1750 !

   I doubt that you'll want an RC controller for that kind of operation, 
they aren't all that reliable - which is OK for an RC car, not so OK for 
a precision milling operation.  Also, for a mill you'll want motor 
feedback so that the bit can keep a constant speed up under changing 
loads - An RC motor driver won't do that.

> Any comments or suggestion are welcome.

   I recommend Googling for motor controller designs with feedback that 
use PID or something close to that to control the motor speed.

DLC


> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 

-- 
-------------------------------------------------
Dennis Clark          TTT Enterprises
www.techtoystoday.com
-------------------------------------------------

Re: [AVR-Chat] R/C throttle control ?

2005-09-04 by Thomas Keller

On Sun, 2005-09-04 at 16:29 -0600, Kevin wrote:

> > I'm trying to find more data about the R/C throttle control.
> > I'm looking for a 25,000 RPM motor to use on a PCB drilling machine
> > and these seem small enough and high speed enough to do the job. 
> > Unfortunatly, the combination of motor and ESC can run upwards of
> $1750 !
>   I doubt that you'll want an RC controller for that kind of 
> operation, they aren't all that reliable - which is OK for an RC car, 
> not so OK for a precision milling operation.  Also, for a mill you'll
> want motor feedback so that the bit can keep a constant speed up under
> changing loads - An RC motor driver won't do that.
> > Any comments or suggestion are welcome.
>    I recommend Googling for motor controller designs with feedback
> that use PID or something close to that to control the motor speed.

   Naw.  PID is too complex for this sort of thing, and gross overkill.
All he needs is a simple PWM controller, with speed feedback as an
option.  Using a brushless DC motor, or a small three pahse A/C
induction motor, speed control probably isn't a big issue, since the
speed is locked to the basic frequency of the power waveform. If the
load increases, and the frequency of the power waveform doesn';t
change,m the motor will just draw more current as needed to maintain
sync with the power waveform.

   There are several PWM speed control system projects for brushless DC
motor controls on avrfreaks.net undee the projects list,. and I know
Atmel has at least three Applications notes on such things.  Other
microcontorller vendors also have numerous applications notes on this.

   While it is arguable whether, for a small drilling application, A/C
induction motors and Space Vector Pulse Width MOdulation might be a bit
of overkill, there is that route to consider as well.  (I frankly don't
know whether the Space Vector approach is beneficial for brushless DC
motors, but I suspect not)  I do know that PWM will offer far better
power efficiency and far lower cost of power control components than any
other approach to brushless DC motor or A/C induction motor speed
control.  And PWM is much more inherently "computer friendly" than other
approaches, both at the controller level, and at the level of
inte5rfacing to PCs for control and monitoring of systems.

Tom

Re: [AVR-Chat] R/C throttle control ?

2005-09-04 by Tom Becker

> ... a simple PWM controller ... Using a brushless DC motor, [] the 
speed is locked to the basic frequency of the power waveform.

Huh?  DC power waveform?  Please explain.


Tom

Re: [AVR-Chat] R/C throttle control ?

2005-09-05 by Roy E. Burrage

PWM, switchmode DC.  The frequency is dependent upon the switching 
frequency just like a stepper motor...only different.


REB


Tom Becker wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > ... a simple PWM controller ... Using a brushless DC motor, [] the 
>speed is locked to the basic frequency of the power waveform.
>
>Huh?  DC power waveform?  Please explain.
>
>
>Tom
>
>
>  
>

Re: [AVR-Chat] R/C throttle control ?

2005-09-05 by Don Ingram

>  > ... a simple PWM controller ... Using a brushless DC motor, [] the 
> speed is locked to the basic frequency of the power waveform.
> 
> Huh?  DC power waveform?  Please explain.
> 
> 
> Tom
> 
> 

Easiest way is to think of it as you would a stepper motor which is fed with 3 
phases. Not exactly correct but a useful starting point to get your head around 
the concept. If you want to go deeper google brushless DC motor theory.

If you don't want to spend much then the Dremmel idea is a good / quick/ cheap one.

Cheers

Don

Re: R/C throttle control ?

2005-09-05 by Dave Mucha

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Kevin <dlc@f...> wrote:
> Dave,
> 
> Dave Mucha wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I'm trying to find more data about the R/C throttle control.
> > 
> > as I am to understand, the control input to an
> > ElectronicSpeedController (ESC) is over a repetitive 20mS frame.  and
> > in that frame there is a range between 0.5 and 2.0mS that is the
value.  
> 
>    Not quite.  The standard is a 1ms to 2ms pulse, with 1.5ms being the 
> center, every 20ms.  Most servos or whatever are happy with .8 to 2.2, 
> going further than that is problematical.
> 
> > That would make it so 0.5mS is a zero speed and 2.0mS would be
100% speed.
> 
>    1ms is full to one direction or speed, 2ms is full to the other 
> direction or speed.  Zero is 1.5ms.
> 

I thought that throttle was zero to full.  a servo for steering, be it
rudder, alerons or steering has a center, but I had thought throttle
was single ended, ie:1ms 

But, I am just learning.

And, brushless is the desired method.

I have to read more of the posted responses.....

Dave

Re: R/C throttle control ?

2005-09-05 by Dave Mucha

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, erikc <firewevr@a...> wrote:
> Dave Mucha wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I'm trying to find more data about the R/C throttle control.
> > 
> > as I am to understand, the control input to an
> > ElectronicSpeedController (ESC) is over a repetitive 20mS frame.  and
> > in that frame there is a range between 0.5 and 2.0mS that is the
value.  
> > 
> > That would make it so 0.5mS is a zero speed and 2.0mS would be
100% speed.
> > 
> > am I correct on this?
> > does anyone have a schematic for an ESC for a burshless motor ?
> > 
> > I'm looking for a 25,000 RPM motor to use on a PCB drilling machine
> > and these seem small enough and high speed enough to do the job. 
> > Unfortunatly, the combination of motor and ESC can run upwards of
$1750 !
> > 
> > Any comments or suggestion are welcome.
> > 
> > Dave
> 
> Have you considered using a Dremel or similar motor and mounting it
into 
> some kind of holder?
> 


I have thought about that, but am hoping to find a higher quality set-up.

the dremel with it's plastic housing is not as ridigid as I would
like.  It is also much taller and heavier than I'd like to wind up with.

It is a fall-back though.

Dave

Re: R/C throttle control ? what is best ?

2005-09-05 by Dave Mucha

Thanks all,

I guess I have been more focused on how to get the signal to a
purchhased R/C controller than the best way to control a motor.

I would like to use a brushless motor.  There seem to be pretty large
burshless motors, and they can spin 25,000 PRM or better.

So, if I restated my goal as a motor that can turn 15,000 or more, and
have a controller to regulate speed, what would anyone recomend ?

I am leery of a brushed motor as of the higher maintenacne of them.

Dave

Re: [AVR-Chat] R/C throttle control ?

2005-09-05 by Thomas Keller

On Sun, 2005-09-04 at 19:15 -0400, Tom Becker wrote:
> > ... a simple PWM controller ... Using a brushless DC motor, [] the 
> >speed is locked to the basic frequency of the power waveform.
> Huh?  DC power waveform?  Please explain.

  I know others have already responded, but permit mme to (as usual) go
into greater depth and detail (I know, I know, I am a windbag  *grin*).

  The designation "DC does NOT imply a steady state current flow, not
even over the short term.  It refers ONLY to the directionality of that
flow (e.g., one direction only).  And even then, this isn't ALWAYS
correct.

  AC refers to Alternating Current, a current which has a regular
reversal of current flow.  Dc describes Direct Current, a current which
(generally speaking) has but a single direction of current flow.

  Look a a Pulse Code MOdulation signal, or a PWM signal, for example.
Bioth examples of Direct Current waveforms, but hardly steady state.
The weaveforms of both are highly complex.  Tis is because, while the
direction of the current flow may not be changing,the AMPLITUDE of that
current flow *IS* constantlychanging, in a complex fashion.

   Yes, it's true, DC signals have waveforms, sometimes waveforms even
MORE complicated than many AC signals.

    In a PWMed brushless DC motor, for example, there are three "phases"
in the coils.  Each phase is fed power at some magnitude sequentially,
with specifica timing (e.g., angular realtionships) between the signals
fed to each coil.  The compositite signal looks like a squared up, DC
offset three-phase AC power signal, when viewed on an oscilloscope
(primarly because, for all practical purposes, that is exactly what it
is).  Indeed, the only really important difference between a PWM for DC
brushless motors, and a PWM for an AC Induction motor is that the
polarity (current direction flow) for the AC motors must be reversed F
times/second (where F is the power line frequency being fed to the
motor).

   Indeed, in most PWM speed controls for AC motors, there is no effort
made to make the waveforms appear anything whatever like a sine wave (at
least, not in the Space Vector approach, which is the one I am working
with). 

   This is one of mnay reaons that PWM speed control is less expensive,
longer lasting, and much, much more efficient than other approaches.
The varying attenuation of the signal magnitude necessary to imimtate a
sine wave is inefficient, electrically speaking.  In PWM, you simple let
time average out your voltages and currentflows, so that the power
delievered tothe armature of the motor is approximately a sine wave.
This eliminates a great dela of power lost in wave shaping, and reduces
the need for and cost of heat sinking, etc., as well as permitting you
to use switching devices with lower maximum carrying capacities, thereby
saving additional money.  (no need to run 200% safety margins,if your
devices are running cool, because there is no need to derate them as
much)

 Tom

Re: [AVR-Chat] R/C throttle control ?

2005-09-05 by Tom Becker

> ... In a PWMed brushless DC motor, for example, there are three 
"phases"...

Yes, I understand that quite well.  I question the terminology.

Is a brushless DC motor just the frame, stator and armature?  I suggest 
that it is not, that it isn't a brushless DC motor unless it includes 
the drive; until then, it is a three-phase motor with open coils, is it not?

If that is correct, PWM'ing a DC brushless motor involves just two 
leads, the DC power to the drive; the coils are downstream from the 
drive and semi-insensitive to the PWM frequency - they certainly are not 
locked to the DC power PWM frequency, as stated.  If the DC power to the 
drive is PWM'ed, variable power is delivered to the drive, modulating 
torque, thus speed, no?

I am balking at the notion of fixed pulse-width, three-phase drive being 
called PWM.


Tom

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: R/C throttle control ?

2005-09-05 by erikc

Dave Mucha wrote:

  >erikc wrote
>>Have you considered using a Dremel or similar motor and mounting it
> 
> into 
> 
>>some kind of holder?
>>
> 
> 
> 
> I have thought about that, but am hoping to find a higher quality set-up.

Be prepared to spend major bucks for that then.

> the dremel with it's plastic housing is not as ridigid as I would
> like.  It is also much taller and heavier than I'd like to wind up with.

There is an alternative, if you don't mind using compressed air.  There 
are inexpensive small "pencil grinders" like these ones:

http://www.irtools.com/IS/product.asp/id/45,57,444,865,1623,2568
http://tinyurl.com/dbjuh
http://www.airtool-yutani.co.jp/Pencil.htm

The exhaust air leaves the spindle end of the tool so it will blow away 
any cuttings that are produced, and air consumption is minimal.  Use a 
solenoid valve to conserve air.

> It is a fall-back though.
> 
> Dave



-- 
erikc
--
"The kind of man who wants the government to adopt and enforce his
ideas is always the kind of man whose ideas are idiotic."
    -- H. L. Mencken

Re: R/C throttle control ? what is best ?

2005-09-05 by Dave Mucha

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Barello" <yahoo@b...> wrote:
> With the AVR it is pretty easy (well, probably difficult the first
time...).
> 
> http://www.barello.net/Papers/AVR%20RC%20output.pdf
> 
> Shows how to generate 8 R/C pulse outputs with a couple lines of
code and a
> shift register.  You could hack it to just output one pulse (i.e.
drop the
> shift register...) then write a few more lines of code to take whatever
> input you want (analog signal) and pump out the appropriate R/C pulse to
> your favorite off the shelf three phase BLDC motor controller/motor
combo.
> 
> Cheers!


The problem with the current small mills is that the motors are slow
speed, rarely over 6,000 RPM and certainly not up near 30,000 RPM

An entire mill head is available, but the motor is over 4 pounds, I'm
expecting my entire unit to weight less than one pound.

Dave





> 
> P.S. If all you want is a small high speed motor with speed control,
check
> out the cheap desktop mill's from places like Grizzley.com - perhaps
you can
> get a motor/controller as spare parts?  Or check out Grainger.com 
This kind
> of stuff is very common.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Of Dave Mucha
> Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 10:57 AM
> To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [AVR-Chat] Re: R/C throttle control ? what is best ?
> 
> Thanks all,
> 
> I guess I have been more focused on how to get the signal to a
> purchhased R/C controller than the best way to control a motor.
> 
> I would like to use a brushless motor.  There seem to be pretty large
> burshless motors, and they can spin 25,000 PRM or better.
> 
> So, if I restated my goal as a motor that can turn 15,000 or more, and
> have a controller to regulate speed, what would anyone recomend ?
> 
> I am leery of a brushed motor as of the higher maintenacne of them.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links

RE: [AVR-Chat] Re: R/C throttle control ? what is best ?

2005-09-05 by Larry Barello

With the AVR it is pretty easy (well, probably difficult the first time...).

http://www.barello.net/Papers/AVR%20RC%20output.pdf

Shows how to generate 8 R/C pulse outputs with a couple lines of code and a
shift register.  You could hack it to just output one pulse (i.e. drop the
shift register...) then write a few more lines of code to take whatever
input you want (analog signal) and pump out the appropriate R/C pulse to
your favorite off the shelf three phase BLDC motor controller/motor combo.

Cheers!

P.S. If all you want is a small high speed motor with speed control, check
out the cheap desktop mill's from places like Grizzley.com - perhaps you can
get a motor/controller as spare parts?  Or check out Grainger.com  This kind
of stuff is very common.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Dave Mucha
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 10:57 AM
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Re: R/C throttle control ? what is best ?

Thanks all,

I guess I have been more focused on how to get the signal to a
purchhased R/C controller than the best way to control a motor.

I would like to use a brushless motor.  There seem to be pretty large
burshless motors, and they can spin 25,000 PRM or better.

So, if I restated my goal as a motor that can turn 15,000 or more, and
have a controller to regulate speed, what would anyone recomend ?

I am leery of a brushed motor as of the higher maintenacne of them.

Dave








 
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: R/C throttle control ? what is best ?

2005-09-06 by Dave Mucha

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Keller <tkeller1@n...> wrote:
> > The problem with the current small mills is that the motors are slow
> > speed, rarely over 6,000 RPM and certainly not up near 30,000 RPM
> > An entire mill head is available, but the motor is over 4 pounds, I'm
> > expecting my entire unit to weight less than one pound.
> 
>    I suspect you're crusing for trouble here, Dave.  There is a REASON
> those mill heads weigh 4 lbs.  It has to do with rigidity.
> 
>    A 1 lb mill head is going to be too light for any but the very
> lightest of cutting jobs.  You will have severe difficulty keeping your
> tool correctly aligned while aking cuts, because the millhead will be
> defelcting too far.  I would guess that you would even have trouble
> milling copper foil off of a circuit board blank with a 1 lb mill
> head,to be honest.   A 4 lb mill; head is extremely lightweight.
> 
> tom


I will be drilling with 1mm or less dia drills only for a 
PCB drilling machine.

I *may* try to rout out the boards after being drilled, but that may
not be dooable or even needed.

I could drill holes in each corner and jyst use them to align a shear,
or even leave a boarder trace and use that.

but this is a tiny driller.

Dave

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: R/C throttle control ? what is best ?

2005-09-06 by Thomas Keller

> The problem with the current small mills is that the motors are slow
> speed, rarely over 6,000 RPM and certainly not up near 30,000 RPM
> An entire mill head is available, but the motor is over 4 pounds, I'm
> expecting my entire unit to weight less than one pound.

   I suspect you're crusing for trouble here, Dave.  There is a REASON
those mill heads weigh 4 lbs.  It has to do with rigidity.

   A 1 lb mill head is going to be too light for any but the very
lightest of cutting jobs.  You will have severe difficulty keeping your
tool correctly aligned while aking cuts, because the millhead will be
defelcting too far.  I would guess that you would even have trouble
milling copper foil off of a circuit board blank with a 1 lb mill
head,to be honest.   A 4 lb mill; head is extremely lightweight.

tom

Re: [AVR-Chat] R/C throttle control ?

2005-09-06 by Thomas Keller

On Mon, 2005-09-05 at 14:02 -0400, Tom Becker wrote:
> > ... In a PWMed brushless DC motor, for example, there are three 
> "phases"...
> Yes, I understand that quite well.  I question the terminology.
> Is a brushless DC motor just the frame, stator and armature?  I
> suggest that it is not, that it isn't a brushless DC motor unless it
> includes the drive; until then, it is a three-phase motor with open
> coils, is it not?

   No, not correct.  A burchless DC motor is NOT the same as a three
phase AC induction motor.  There are some very significant differences
in pole design, and magnetic circuit layout.

> If that is correct, PWM'ing a DC brushless motor involves just two 
> leads, the DC power to the drive; the coils are downstream from the 
> drive and semi-insensitive to the PWM frequency - they certainly are
> not locked to the DC power PWM frequency, as stated.  If the DC power
> to the drive is PWM'ed, variable power is delivered to the drive,
> modulating torque, thus speed, no?

   No. If it has only two leads, it is NOT a BLDC motor.  Period.
Controllers are seldom integrated into the motors (though they CAN be).
Even then, you're going to have at LEAST 4 leads (two for power, two
(minimum) for speed control input.

> I am balking at the notion of fixed pulse-width, three-phase drive
> being called PWM.

  As well you should.  If it is "fixed Pulse Width," then it is a FPW
control, not a PWM control.   Actually, it isn;'t even that, since
sopeed control isn't even a part of the "equation."  We are talking
about variable speed motors here, so why would anyone be thinking in
terms of "fixed pulse-width?"

Tom

RE: [AVR-Chat] R/C throttle control ?

2005-09-06 by Larry Barello

Don't confuse commutation with PWM used to adjust the amount of power being
delivered to a coil of wire.  In traditional PMDC motors mechanical switches
(brushes) do the commuting so all that is needed is one PWM circuit to
control power.  BLDC are more complex and because commuting and PWM are
co-mingled finer degrees of control is possible further increasing
efficiency, hence all the exotic sounding "Space Vector Control" type drive
algorithms.  The simplest level of control simply switches coils on/off once
per cycle varying the duration of the on period for control.  Not terribly
efficient, but simple.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
 -----Original Message-----
From: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Tom Becker
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 11:03 AM
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] R/C throttle control ?

 > ... In a PWMed brushless DC motor, for example, there are three 
"phases"...

Yes, I understand that quite well.  I question the terminology.

Is a brushless DC motor just the frame, stator and armature?  I suggest 
that it is not, that it isn't a brushless DC motor unless it includes 
the drive; until then, it is a three-phase motor with open coils, is it not?

If that is correct, PWM'ing a DC brushless motor involves just two 
leads, the DC power to the drive; the coils are downstream from the 
drive and semi-insensitive to the PWM frequency - they certainly are not 
locked to the DC power PWM frequency, as stated.  If the DC power to the 
drive is PWM'ed, variable power is delivered to the drive, modulating 
torque, thus speed, no?

I am balking at the notion of fixed pulse-width, three-phase drive being 
called PWM.


Tom






 
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [AVR-Chat] R/C throttle control ?

2005-09-06 by Tom Becker

> ... If it has only two leads, it is NOT a BLDC motor. Period.

Perhaps my confusion comes from experience.  I have PWM'd two-lead 
maglev brushless DC blowers 
(http://www.sunon.com.tw/products/pdf/2005dc-maglev.pdf), and I've PWM'd 
small brushless DC gearhead motors 
(http://www.copal-usa.com/PDFs/LB16-030-AA.pdf).  Since these contain 
integrated driver electronics, each offers only two leads; PWM'ing these 
motors' power supply to moderate speed works fine and there is no 
identifiable relationship between PWM frequency and motor speed as, I 
think, one should expect.

There are, it appears from a quick search, many more examples that are 
as you describe, open-coil motors that need a multiphase driver or 
controller to operate.  Perhaps my confusion was a matter of scale.  
Thanks for the, uh, clarification.


Tom

RE: [AVR-Chat] Re: R/C throttle control ? what is best ?

2005-09-07 by Phillip Vogel

Check out www.ramprodinc.com or www.naildrill.com. They have brush motors,
but they are VERY reliable. Used by dentists, carvers and manicurists.  Some
of their units are PIC controlled, and you could easily tap into the control
circuit with your own PWM.

--

So, if I restated my goal as a motor that can turn 15,000 or more, and
have a controller to regulate speed, what would anyone recomend ?

I am leery of a brushed motor as of the higher maintenacne of them.

Re: [AVR-Chat] R/C throttle control ?

2005-09-07 by Thomas Keller

On Tue, 2005-09-06 at 16:51 -0400, Tom Becker wrote:
> > ... If it has only two leads, it is NOT a BLDC motor. Period.
> Perhaps my confusion comes from experience.  I have PWM'd two-lead 
> maglev brushless DC blowers 
> (http://www.sunon.com.tw/products/pdf/2005dc-maglev.pdf), and I've
> PWM'd small brushless DC gearhead motors 
> (http://www.copal-usa.com/PDFs/LB16-030-AA.pdf).  Since these contain 
> integrated driver electronics, each offers only two leads; PWM'ing
> these motors' power supply to moderate speed works fine and there is
> no identifiable relationship between PWM frequency and motor speed as,
> I think, one should expect.  There are, it appears from a quick
> search, many more examples that are as you describe, open-coil motors
> that need a multiphase driver or controller to operate.  Perhaps my
> confusion was a matter of scale.  Thanks for the, uh, clarification.

  Ineed to cease being so assertive. Sorry.

  In my view, what you are treferring to uis a motor/controller module,
not a "motor" per se`.   If you look inside, I believe you'll find that
the MOTOR has more than two leads, regardless of the wiring of the
module as a whole..

  Either way, I was excessively forceful in my comments. Again, my
apologies. (being an opinionated ass can have its drawbacks, you know?)

Tom

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