AVR-Chat

I am having  the worst time these days with my being able to program any of the AVR devices I am currently working with, and it is driving me nutz! I usually use the AVRISP dongle provided with the STK300 dev board by Kanda. The device is really outdated and has many flaws from what I have gathered just from checking out the forums and my own crappy experiences, so I just finished building one of the updated versions posted on the AVRFreaks site. The design I opted for was the 'even_better_pppd_mod_March4_2006' which includes many resisitors and decoup caps on the signal lines, etc...Anyways, I just tried using it via AVRStudio, no luck still, it just doesn't seem to read anything on the port(LPT). I also have WINAVR and tried via AVRDude, but the software doesn't seem to support the device hooked up(Tiny45)[maybe I have an old version?as I have been told it supports this device???]. Idealy I would prefer to just use AVRISP loader, but the version I have for my Kanda dongle is way too old and doesn't support half of the devices I have, including the tiny hooked up. What can I do here to get going again using my tiny45??? I have to get this device loaded and quick! No cash to buy hardware unfortunatly, so need DIY solutions today. Thanks in advance everyone!
_________________________________________________________________
Try Live.com: where your online world comes together - with news, sports, weather, and much more.
http://www.live.com/getstarted

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Instead of spending all that time building something that apparently 
doesn't work, why not just buy either and ATAVRISP or an STK500 
development board?  Sometimes we can be penny rich and dollar poor when 
it comes to tools...wasting a lot of time, and time is money, in the 
process.  Even if you have a known working product sent to you over 
night, you're still at about 100 dollars or less.  How long do you have 
to work to bill a hundred bucks?  Not long, I suspect.

If you don't value your time, nobody else will either.

Not trying to climb your sneakers here, just sharing some hard earned 
experience...trying to save a hundred bucks once cost me several 
thousand when the project got canceled.  Each and every tool you buy 
will pay for itself many times over.

You wouldn't go out in the driveway to work on your car without a set of 
wrenches, would you?


REB



Jay Dagenais wrote:

> I am having  the worst time these days with my being able to program any of the AVR devices I am currently working with, and it is driving me nutz! I usually use the AVRISP dongle provided with the STK300 dev board by Kanda. The device is really outdated and has many flaws from what I have gathered just from checking out the forums and my own crappy experiences, so I just finished building one of the updated versions posted on the AVRFreaks site. The design I opted for was the 'even_better_pppd_mod_March4_2006' which includes many resisitors and decoup caps on the signal lines, etc...Anyways, I just tried using it via AVRStudio, no luck still, it just doesn't seem to read anything on the port(LPT). I also have WINAVR and tried via AVRDude, but the software doesn't seem to support the device hooked up(Tiny45)[maybe I have an old version?as I have been told it supports this device???]. Idealy I would prefer to just use AVRISP loader, but the version I have for my Kanda dongle is way too old and doesn't support half of the devices I have, including the tiny hooked up. What can I do here to get going again using my tiny45??? I have to get this device loaded and quick! No cash to buy hardware unfortunatly, so need DIY solutions today. Thanks in advance everyone!
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

At 07:45 AM 23/06/2006, you wrote:
>I just tried using it via AVRStudio, no luck still, it just doesn't 
>seem to read anything on the port(LPT).

 From what I know AVRStudio as such DOES NOT support LPT programmers
but serial port type only (there may be a Kanda plug in for yours ??).
I think avrdude which comes with winavr does but whether it supports
the tiny 45 is another story.

You may want to try ponyprog which is a cheap diy programmer.

AVR910 programmer does not support the tiny 45 yet.


Regards

John Samperi

********************************************************
Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
Email: john@ampertronics.com.au
Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
*Electronic Design * Custom Products * Contract Assembly
********************************************************

You could goto our website and buy an AVRISP software upgrade :)

http://www.kanda.com/go/avrispup

Bryan (Kanda Software Engineer)

  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Did you install the parallel port driver?
giveio.bat or something like that in avrdude.

Cat

----Original Message Follows----

From: "Jay Dagenais" <jaydag71@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
To: <AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [AVR-Chat] helpme, pleez!
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:45:29 -0700

  I am having  the worst time these days with my being able to program any 
of the AVR devices I am currently working with, and it is driving me nutz! I 
usually use the AVRISP dongle provided with the STK300 dev board by Kanda. 
The device is really outdated and has many flaws from what I have gathered 
just from checking out the forums and my own crappy experiences, so I just 
finished building one of the updated versions posted on the AVRFreaks site. 
The design I opted for was the 'even_better_pppd_mod_March4_2006' which 
includes many resisitors and decoup caps on the signal lines, etc...Anyways, 
I just tried using it via AVRStudio, no luck still, it just doesn't seem to 
read anything on the port(LPT). I also have WINAVR and tried via AVRDude, 
but the software doesn't seem to support the device hooked up(Tiny45)[maybe 
I have an old version?as I have been told it supports this device???]. 
Idealy I would prefer to just use AVRISP loader, but the version I have for 
my Kanda dongle is way too old and doesn't support half of the devices I 
have, including the tiny hooked up. What can I do here to get going again 
using my tiny45??? I have to get this device loaded and quick! No cash to 
buy hardware unfortunatly, so need DIY solutions today. Thanks in advance 
everyone!
_________________________________________________________________
Try Live.com: where your online world comes together - with news, sports, 
weather, and much more.
http://www.live.com/getstarted

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links

Hi,

    Since the old times with the AT90S8515 I have always used a 10K resistor 
to VCC and a 100nF Capacitor to ground at the AVR reset lines... Is this 
necessary with the ATmega8 and newer parts ?? I checked the data sheet and 
the minimum time for reset is up to a reasonable 1.5 microseconds instead 
the old 50 nanoseconds and the diagram shows an internal pull up resistor.

    Does anyone know, almost for sure, that the external res and cap are not 
needed anymore ?? I know they cost very little but with TQFP parts the size 
matters. :-)

Best regards,
Alexandre Guimaraes

At 12:51 AM 6/24/2006, you wrote:
>Hi,
>
>     Does anyone know, almost for sure, that the external res and cap are not
>needed anymore ?? I know they cost very little but with TQFP parts the size
>matters. :-)
>
>Best regards,
>Alexandre Guimaraes

  I don't know for sure, But thinking along the same lines as you seem to 
be... I left the external reset resistor & cap off my last design.

  Everything seems to work fine, including ISP. But I did notice that when 
I brushed my finger on the ISP connector and at the same time touched the 
tab of a HV switching FET I'd get spontaneous resets.
  This is a bit extreme, but I think the answer is that in a normal noise 
environment you can leave the parts out of the design. In a high noise 
situation put them in, or better yet disable the reset pin entirely after 
development is done (proper use of BOD is probably advised.)

Sorry for only having anecdotal evidence.

-carl


----------------------------------------------
Henry Carl Ott   N2RVQ
tech@si.rr.com

I use a TI TPS3825-50DBV for reset control on all my ATmegaX (32, 644, 2560
etc) designs.

Jim

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Henry Carl Ott" <carlott@interport.net>
To: <AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2006 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Is the Atmega8 Reset Pin Internal pull up resistor
enough ?


> At 12:51 AM 6/24/2006, you wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >     Does anyone know, almost for sure, that the external res and cap are
not
> >needed anymore ?? I know they cost very little but with TQFP parts the
size

> >matters. :-)
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Alexandre Guimaraes
>
>   I don't know for sure, But thinking along the same lines as you seem to
> be... I left the external reset resistor & cap off my last design.
>
>   Everything seems to work fine, including ISP. But I did notice that when
> I brushed my finger on the ISP connector and at the same time touched the
> tab of a HV switching FET I'd get spontaneous resets.
>   This is a bit extreme, but I think the answer is that in a normal noise
> environment you can leave the parts out of the design. In a high noise
> situation put them in, or better yet disable the reset pin entirely after
> development is done (proper use of BOD is probably advised.)
>
> Sorry for only having anecdotal evidence.
>
> -carl
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Henry Carl Ott   N2RVQ
> tech@si.rr.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hi,

>  Everything seems to work fine, including ISP. But I did notice that when
> I brushed my finger on the ISP connector and at the same time touched the
> tab of a HV switching FET I'd get spontaneous resets.
>  This is a bit extreme, but I think the answer is that in a normal noise
> environment you can leave the parts out of the design. In a high noise
> situation put them in, or better yet disable the reset pin entirely after
> development is done (proper use of BOD is probably advised.)
>
> Sorry for only having anecdotal evidence.

    I was afraid to receive this kind of answer :-) It is one of the things 
that I hate most about data sheets... They tend to be non-conclusive in many 
aspects.

    On a 2 layers board the space taken from the res and cap is annoying. It 
is cheap but "disturbs" the board around and I hate to use parts that are 
not really needed..

    Have you tried to put a 100 nF Capacitor to ground or a 10K resistor to 
VCC and made the same test ? With the internal pullup the cap may be enough 
to cope with external noise...

Best regards,
Alexandre Guimaraes

At 01:18 PM 6/25/2006, you wrote:
>    Have you tried to put a 100 nF Capacitor to ground or a 10K resistor to
>VCC and made the same test ? With the internal pullup the cap may be enough
>to cope with external noise...

The original PCB had space for the cap and resistor, I'd just left them out 
to see if they could be omitted from future designs.
  Well I had a little time this afternoon, so I opened up the project and 
added a 10k / 2nf cap.

  Now keep in mind the design has the isp connector physically located 
right next to a FET switcher doing a 12v to 200 volt conversion. I'd almost 
expect connecting the reset pin to the tab of the fet via finger 
resistance/ body capacitance to overwhelm the internal 60k pull up resistor.

   Not a problem for me, because after the case is closed I don't expect 
any kerfinger pokin anyway.

But note, when I did add the parts mentioned above, the sensitivity to 
finger touch did in fact go away. I did not try the experiment with only 
the cap, It's a bit of a pain to dismount the pcb more then once in order 
to solder in the parts.

  It's really just a noise issue. In a low noise environment I'd think the 
built is resistor is fine, especially if you don't have a long trace 
connected to the pin acting as an antenna to couple in noise. I do wish the 
reset pin was closer to the other isp pins. Bit of extra effort routing 
that one signal.

  In a really high noise situation, I'd still turn off the reset fine in 
the fuse settings and use a boot loader to get code into the chip.

Without anything definitive from the data sheets, I guess this is just more 
grist for the mill.

Regards,



carl

--------------------------------------------------------
Henry Carl Ott   N2RVQ
http://users.rcn.com/carlott/
--------------------------------------------------------

I have thousands of products in the field reliably using only .1uF cap 
on the reset pin. A few years back, not having the cap caused a product 
reset sometimes when a nearby motor turned on.
using the following chips:
mega8 mega48 tiny26 90s2313 tiny2313