Casio CZ/VZ Files... part of CZsynth

History of synthesizers started with subtractive principle many years  
ago, not "these days". It was the first architecture, and despite many  
other principles came later, this one has always been in use until our  
days. Thanks to this it's considered as a standard in the world of  
synthesizers. So when I hear "synthesizer", this is what I imagine  
first. And I'm not alone in this - many analog and digital  
synthesizers and samplers follow or at least emulate this  
architecture, Casio PD synths being good example for this. What's  
wrong with these facts?

Even when we accept this fact and try to see CZ as the dual  
subtractive synth, still there are very complex (and thanks to its  
movable Sustain and End points also quite unique) envelopes - nothing  
for beginners. And nothing which we can find on common subtractive  
synth with ADSR envelope.

And because PD principle is hidden behind the user interface, and user  
has no access to it, it's hardly usable as a learning tool for FM  
synthesis. Far away from FM, and so simple that I wouldn't call it an  
advanced subset of it.  Envelopes also differs. Besides FM is only one  
part of Yamaha algorithm synthesis - in fact it's a combination of FM  
(yes, PM actually) with additive harmonic and additive component  
synthesis. Algorithm synthesis doesn't pretend being subtractive synth  
(which is what CZ does), so it's clear there's no filter there.

Magic of programming analog subtractive synth is in understanding how  
to set and balance these important parameters: Filter Cutoff  
Frequency, amount of filter envelope modulation, Sustain level in  
filter envelope and Keyboard Scaling for filter. I'm sorry but I don't  
see any of these parameters on CZ so there's not much knowledge we can  
get from it and apply on some subtractive synth.

Anyway there's not big sense in comparing of those systems - each of  
them has different architecture, offers different sounds and it's  
necessary to learn how to work with each of them. There's hardly  
anything like universal knowledge we can easily transfer from one  
system to the other.

Daniel Forro

On 15 Jun, 2013, at 11:26 PM, synergeezer wrote:

> "I don't think so, it's not typical subtractive synth".  And this  
> applies because almost everyone is using subtractive synthesis,  
> these days?  On what planet?  CZs present an advanced subset of the  
> modulation potential of the Yamaha FM (actually, PM) synthesizers.   
> The skills one learns, rather easily, IMO, on the CZs applies very  
> well to subtractive, as well as to FM synthesizers.  The CZs are a  
> very gentle introduction to synthesizer programming!
>
> - synergeezer
>
> --- In CZ-VZ-Files@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forró <dan.for@...> wrote:
>>
>> I don't think so, it's not typical subtractive synth, it just tries  
>> to
>> imitate that structure (behind this face is hidden PD Synthesis). In
>> comparison with the other synths trying to imitate "standard"
>> subtractive synth here oscillator is digital, there's no real filter,
>> envelopes are difficult to understand and program, concept of "lines"
>> is also rather unusual (because there are in fact two independent
>> synths), and ring and noise modulation is also not quite typical.
>>
>> Never mind, important is it can produce interesting sounds :-)
>>
>> Daniel Forro
>>
>> On 15 Jun, 2013, at 12:15 AM, synergeezer wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> IMHO, the CZ is the best bit of gear for learning how to program a
>>> synthesizer (okay, maybe a big modular might be better).