Casio CZ/VZ Files... part of CZsynth

I can't believe you people are having a debate about this synth issue. This is an winnable debate that people grew tired of talking about in 1987. 

Regardless of how the CZ system works (it is neither PM *fm/pm has no window function nor is it Subtractive) it IS very easy to make all the sounds you need, very quickly just by tweaking the really horrible presets. 

The person described himself as a guitar player...so he won't have the baggage of subtractive or FM methods...he can learn Phase Distortion first and probably be able to do everything he needs in this realm very efficiently. Casio mostly produced products that were easy to use and educational and this philosophy definitely drives the CZ architecture.

The only "REAL" problem is casio's SysEx is non-standard, doesn't always give access to full range of hidden parameters and all the info about these instruments keeps disappearing from the internet at an amazing rate. But then again...due to this lack of support they remain affordable so it evens out.

ENJOY YOUR SYNTH! MAKE GREAT MUSIC WITH IT! <3

--- In CZ-VZ-Files@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forr� <dan.for@...> wrote:
>
> History of synthesizers started with subtractive principle many years  
> ago, not "these days". It was the first architecture, and despite many  
> other principles came later, this one has always been in use until our  
> days. Thanks to this it's considered as a standard in the world of  
> synthesizers. So when I hear "synthesizer", this is what I imagine  
> first. And I'm not alone in this - many analog and digital  
> synthesizers and samplers follow or at least emulate this  
> architecture, Casio PD synths being good example for this. What's  
> wrong with these facts?
> 
> Even when we accept this fact and try to see CZ as the dual  
> subtractive synth, still there are very complex (and thanks to its  
> movable Sustain and End points also quite unique) envelopes - nothing  
> for beginners. And nothing which we can find on common subtractive  
> synth with ADSR envelope.
> 
> And because PD principle is hidden behind the user interface, and user  
> has no access to it, it's hardly usable as a learning tool for FM  
> synthesis. Far away from FM, and so simple that I wouldn't call it an  
> advanced subset of it.  Envelopes also differs. Besides FM is only one  
> part of Yamaha algorithm synthesis - in fact it's a combination of FM  
> (yes, PM actually) with additive harmonic and additive component  
> synthesis. Algorithm synthesis doesn't pretend being subtractive synth  
> (which is what CZ does), so it's clear there's no filter there.
> 
> Magic of programming analog subtractive synth is in understanding how  
> to set and balance these important parameters: Filter Cutoff  
> Frequency, amount of filter envelope modulation, Sustain level in  
> filter envelope and Keyboard Scaling for filter. I'm sorry but I don't  
> see any of these parameters on CZ so there's not much knowledge we can  
> get from it and apply on some subtractive synth.
> 
> Anyway there's not big sense in comparing of those systems - each of  
> them has different architecture, offers different sounds and it's  
> necessary to learn how to work with each of them. There's hardly  
> anything like universal knowledge we can easily transfer from one  
> system to the other.
> 
> Daniel Forro
> 
> On 15 Jun, 2013, at 11:26 PM, synergeezer wrote:
> 
> > "I don't think so, it's not typical subtractive synth".  And this  
> > applies because almost everyone is using subtractive synthesis,  
> > these days?  On what planet?  CZs present an advanced subset of the  
> > modulation potential of the Yamaha FM (actually, PM) synthesizers.   
> > The skills one learns, rather easily, IMO, on the CZs applies very  
> > well to subtractive, as well as to FM synthesizers.  The CZs are a  
> > very gentle introduction to synthesizer programming!
> >
> > - synergeezer
> >
> > --- In CZ-VZ-Files@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Forr� <dan.for@> wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't think so, it's not typical subtractive synth, it just tries  
> >> to
> >> imitate that structure (behind this face is hidden PD Synthesis). In
> >> comparison with the other synths trying to imitate "standard"
> >> subtractive synth here oscillator is digital, there's no real filter,
> >> envelopes are difficult to understand and program, concept of "lines"
> >> is also rather unusual (because there are in fact two independent
> >> synths), and ring and noise modulation is also not quite typical.
> >>
> >> Never mind, important is it can produce interesting sounds :-)
> >>
> >> Daniel Forro
> >>
> >> On 15 Jun, 2013, at 12:15 AM, synergeezer wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> IMHO, the CZ is the best bit of gear for learning how to program a
> >>> synthesizer (okay, maybe a big modular might be better).
>