Casio CZ/ VZ/ FZ - Pro Series

done

On 8/12/08, KW <memtechlist@...> wrote:
> are anyone excerpt mr zoinky boinky and mr mado ezrado interested ? please
> lift this discussion somewhere else mates.
>
> --- Den mån 2008-08-11 skrev ezra buchla <ezra.buchla@...>:
>
> Från: ezra buchla <ezra.buchla@...>
> Ämne: Re: [CZsynth] Re: waldorf microwave vs CZ & poly-8
> Till: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
> Datum: måndag 11 augusti 2008 23.43
>
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>> Ok, but if you don't agree with that, you're just plain wrong. A
>> leap of faith is required to get from logic to ethics or morality.
>> Various thought experiments, like the Prisoner's Dilemma demonstrate
>> that taking that leap can be beneficial under certain circumstances,
>> and so far that's about the best we can do in order to arrive at
>> ethical behavior through reason. But even in the Prisoner's Dilemma,
>> humans have to be logical beings, and they have to be aware of the
>> Prisoner's Dilemma, and they have to be aware of their partner-
>> prisoner's awareness of the Prisoner's Dilemma for ethical behavior
>> to be beneficial, and since humans are definitely not well-informed,
>> and are definitely not logical beings, it still appears that the best
>> strategy for the individual, in the Prisoner's Dilemma, is to act in
>> an unethical manner. Luckily, the Prisoner's Dilemma is not a
>> situation that ever arises in most, if anybody's life. In our
>> society, it is in most cases easier to act in an ethical manner, and
>> will generate fewer hassles. But that's only because of our
>> extensive punative legal system. In the case of mp3 downloading,
>> unless the long arm of the law can catch and punish a lot of mp3
>> downloaders, people will choose to download mp3s. If the legal
>> system cannot stop the widespread illicit downloading of mp3s, then
>> an alternative means of doing business must be developed. A law that
>> the majority of the population ignores is not a good law, period.
>
> the problem is that the underlying technology has a built-in bias
> towards letting music be copied. i agree that legalities are pretty
> worthless in this situation.
>
> ethics as self-interest seems to work, and you seem to be in favor of
> that idea. certainly it's the basis of capitalism. right now,
> self-interest among consumers will dictate that more of them take the
> free music than the paid-for music. that is broken, on whatever level
> you choose to analyze it (laws, technologies, morals...)
>
> ethics and economics seem pretty intimately related, to me... but i
> studied math and music in college, not philosophy or whatever that is
> up there.
>
>> Independent labels go up and down all the time. How did Rough Trade
>> go out of business with New Order and the Smiths? It was badly
>> managed, that's how. BTW, I had a flame war with the management of
>> Kill Rock Stars, and they seemed like a bunch of arrogant twits to
>> me.
>
> ok. those people are my friends, sometimes. i argue with them too, and
> arrogance is part of the package, but i don't think they're twits.
>
> thing is, EVERY label is making less money than they used to. the ones
> who make the least will fold. i think "least" might actually represent
> a bigger chunk than i want to accept. maybe the answer is that no-one
> needs labels, including musicians. but i suspect it will be harder to
> coalesce people around a style, hard to keep the the stylistic
> momentum that drives innovation and creates new imitation-worthy
> stuff, when every artist is struggling tooth-and-nail against each
> other for the attention of a few marketing behemoths, without the
> small-group support network that "the label" used to provide.
>
> the labels that are hurting most are the ones that offer the biggest
> cuts to artists. screwed up.
>
> anyway, the bands' bottom line is also suffering.
>
>> So? You see these people listening to music during their commute,
>> which is the only thing they can do during their commute. They
>> listen to it there and then do other things for the rest of the day.
>> Just because you see them with Ipods plastered to their ears on the
>> train doesn't mean you should assume that when they get off that
>> train they spend the rest of the day with Ipods plastered to their
>> ears. Fact is, fewer people (per capita) are listening to music than
>> ever, because they have far more entertainment choices than the
>> past. What keeps the industry alive is population growth.
>
> really? yuck. i kind of do think that that time on the train might be
> worth something, though.
>
> and i suspect that some people use itunes and winamp, from time to
> time... even while playing videogames!
>
>>> and we're damn
>>> > lucky mp3s and Ipod's came along or we'd be even more destitute.
>>> > Third, I've seen no compelling evidence that people need to pay
>> for
>>> > music. I get similar if not more revenues from sites hosting my
>> mp3s
>>> > and paying me with ad revenue as I do from ITunes which pays me
>> for
>>> > mp3s being sold.
>
>>> because both of those quantities are pittances?
>>
>> And why do you assume I deserve more? You know nothing about my
>> music. Perhaps it is only worth a pittance...
>
> ok, but let's assume that at least some music is worth something
> significant. or maybe we can't agree on that, in which case i give up.
>
> i wish small bands (the kind that play instruments in groups) weren't
> having such a hard time surviving, no matter how critically acclaimed
> they get. no one can stand to do it for more than a couple years any
> more. there's no chance to grow and become something worth imitating
> in future generations (going back to the sonic youth example).
>
> it's a very different prospect to render out some techno and get a few
> dollars a month from ads.
>
>>> but there are
>>> exceptions. deerhunter comes to mind. no age come to mind.
>>>
>>
>> Never heard of them. Maybe because I don't do MySpace.
>
> oh well. these are people who started self-releasing and on myspace,
> and are now on kranky and sub pop. deerhunter might be best known as
> the current NIN opener slot, succeeding peaches and bauhaus.
>
>>
>> I know they do, but I don't care. And I'm also not complaining about
>> them not buying my music. You said you get a thrill out of some punk
>> listening to your tunes off MySpace.
>
> no, i could give half a crap about myspace. what i appreciate is being
> able to go to portugal and play to a large sold-out crowd of stoked
> kids; i suspect that "the internet" has something to do with this.
> this is the most awesome aspect of digitally distributed music, to me:
> reaching a lot more people in different places than you could with
> mail-order catalogues. the less awesome aspect is not being able to do
> it full-time because there's no money in it. i can survive on tour but
> i don't want to have to tour 10 months a year, like the kids in my
> band's "touring lineup" do...
> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=C-gmh6ShJD4 in case you're actually
> interested (the video sucks, the mix sucks, you hate the songs...
> whatever)
>
>> Well I can't comment on experience, but I'm reluctant to take your
>> experience at face value simply because you've been wrong about so
>> many other aspects of this conversation.
>
> oh, sure... so WRONG...
>
> It seems to me that if fans
>> don't have to pay for the music, that's money they can use to buy
>> stickers, or t-shirts, or other 'merch', including tickets to the
>> show itself...
>
> i addressed this somewhere else. the show used to function as a portal
> to get people to buy recordings. now it doesn't. i think it's retarded
> to have to be a popular clothing designer as well as a popular
> musician in order to make money off your music. it also sucks to have
> to charge $10 or $15 a head to get into a punk rock show; really
> limits the audience. if you could expect 30% of those people to buy a
> record, you could charge less or even make the shows free (because so
> many more potential record customers would show up).
>
> plus the profit margin for records sold at shows is WAAAY higher than
> through any distributor, digital or otherwise.
>
>> I think this has more to do with the type of music you're making. If
>> you're here in a synth yahoogroup, you probably make electronic-type
>> music which is far more popular in Europe than North America. You
>> probably get treated there the same way people trying to copy
>> Nickelback or Blackeyed Peas get treated here.
>
> hm, maybe. but i kind of doubt it. i've been in rock bands. i think
> music styles are more geographically distributed than they used to be,
> for obvious reasons. the difference in the economic value attached to
> culture in europe vs. america is vast and reaches across styles and
> art forms. it's really astounding to experience.
>
> my point there was that even though people have less disposable income
> in, say, spain or slovenia, even though they are way more cost-minded
> with their technology (which means linux and filesharing are huge), i
> STILL get paid more as a musician in slovenia than i do in america.
> it's not because the style of music i play is somehow more respected
> there than it is in my hometown of los angeles. these kids already
> have the mp3's but they still buy records! it's amazing!!!
>
> maybe bands that know how to play live music will just disappear from
> america. i don't really think that's cool, but whatever...
>
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