Casio CZ/ VZ/ FZ - Pro Series

This video does NOT prove USB MIDI interfaces do not have rock solid
timing. This is corporate BS trying to pain their product (which
multiplexes variate CV destinations through SPDIF - a pretty clever
trick) and how that has nice tight timing.

The video displays, however exactly what I described -- unless the
tempo of you song is an INTEGER DIVISOR (THAT'S A WHOLE NUMBER), you
will not get a MIDI stream that wil exactly describe your 'groove' as
a stream of MIDI notes.

It's like GIF. GIF is a beautiful and often the most elegant file
format, to use after all these years, but some people say it's a lossy
format. This displays an incomplete knowledge of the format. You MUST
reduce the color palette to 255 or less colors to be encoded into a
GIF.

MIDI is like your basic Nexus 6. It was built as good as they could be
made, but in 1982 - when they started -- there were electronic
tradeoffs that had to be made. Sadly, MIDI didn't have a 5 year life
span.

Still no evidence that USB MIDI interfaces produce 'flubby' timing.
Just furster evidence that MIDI is not your best friend for a 4 down
drum beat.

DIN Synch 24 is a a much better choice for tight repeditive rhythmic timing.

For all it's flaws, however -- MIDI is so much better than what almost
happened -- every manufacturer with their own Bus design, which would
probably be modified and kept in service for a few years only anyway
-- Look at DCB fer cryin out loud. That Could have been MIDI!!! Or the
other way around!

On 8/23/13, jammie <jammie.emma@...> wrote:
> actually we have proven usb midi does drop notes out of time using an
> oscilloscope
>
> and expersleepers software and usb timing is not rock solid as midi from the
> st
>
> or expert sleepers audio to midi which is just great
>
> http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/index_files/the-horrors-of-usb-midi-timing.php
>
> heres a video showing you
>
> defy away but thats just one example of many
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Loscha
>   To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 1:37 PM
>   Subject: Re: [CZsynth] Speed of sysex transfer
>
>
>
>   You assert that MIDI over USB is sloppy.
>
>   This is the same as a schoolgirl saying toads gice you warts!!!
>
>   If you look at a MIDI USB over an oscilloscope, as I have, you'll see
>   it is just fine. I do not have any pictures to document this, sadly --
>   and my scope is not currently set up.
>
>   I defy you to produce factual evidence to the contrary, however!
>
>   MiDI is not ideal for tight timing.
>   If you look at, say, laying a 4 down kick drum on a track, unless that
>   tempo you are using is an integer divisor of 31250, it's going to flop
>   around and not be in time.
>   Period.
>
>   On 8/22/13, jammie <jammie.emma@...> wrote:
>   > you could fit a lan midi port on the cz this is attached to the pre
> opto
>   > isolaters of the uart
>   >
>   > then you can use midi over lan
>   >
>   > but the midi protocol is still 31.25kb period thats the standard set
>   >
>   > but the problem lies with the usb and windows changing it from win98
>   >
>   > and since then midi timing has been sloppy
>   >
>   > now a parallel interface is much better and timing is much better
>   >
>   > so a opcode x64 which i still use and has xp 32 and 64bit drivers
>   >
>   > and i have never had any problems with sysex
>   >
>   > but i still use sound diver and changeit which is a great sysex sender
> and
>   > has a section for slowing down packets
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: Lee Borrell
>   > To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
>   > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 12:47 PM
>   > Subject: Re: [CZsynth] Speed of sysex transfer
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > I think if you talking about USB to USB transfer - or Firewire then you
>   > may have a point ,but as soon as any interface hits a MIDI DIN plug it
> HAS
>   > to be 31.25 Kb - this is the MIDI standard. No commercial interface with
> DIN
>   > plugs on it is going to do better than that baud rate,or face the
> equipment
>   > not getting the signal. In the case of pre-USB vintage machines,there is
> no
>   > way to go faster than 31.25kB.
>   >
>   > ________________________________
>   > From: fulfil_objective <robot@...>
>   > To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com
>   > Sent: Thursday, 22 August 2013, 7:21
>   > Subject: [CZsynth] Speed of sysex transfer
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > Hi Steve,
>   >
>   > I think you are too focused on these vintage numbers like 31250 bps and
>   > 115200 bps. Transferring sysex by USB and MIDI are not limited to these
> old
>   > numbers. USB enables speeds that are hundreds or thousands of times
> faster
>   > than these numbers. In fact, greatly higher speeds are touted as one of
> the
>   > benefits of a USB MIDI device (along with multiple streams).
>   >
>   > High speed sysex transfer is both desired and encouraged, for example,
> in
>   > the case of sending sound data to a sampler. If you wanted to send 128
>   > megabytes of sounds to your sampler, and if you were restricted to
> 31250
>   > bps, it would take 9.5 hours to send the sounds. USB MIDI devices
> enable
>   > higher speeds, and that speed is encouraged.
>   >
>   > 31250 bps is the speed of an old dialup modem (actual throughput) on a
>   > good day. If you tested at 115200 bps, that is merely 3.7 times faster
> than
>   > 31250 bps. Still very slow by today's standards.
>   >
>   > USB 2.0 has a max throughput of something like 35 MB/s. But lets be
>   > generous and say that in the real world, you can only get your USB 2.0
> to 20
>   > MB/s. That speed, 20 MB/s, works out to 160,000,000 bps, which is 5,120
>   > times faster than 31250 bps.
>   >
>   > So yes, I think a capable modern computer with a good USB system can
> send
>   > sysex out faster than the CZ can deal with it. And it's not necessarily
> tied
>   > to CPU speed of the computer either, more like the speed of the whole
>   > computer-USB system.
>   >
>   > You will probably find it enlightening to read the "Universal Serial
> Bus
>   > Device Class Definition for MIDI Devices", Release 1.0, Nov 1, 1999,
> which
>   > you cand download here:
>   >
>   > http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/midi10.pdf
>   >
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
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> 08/21/13
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