Casio CZ/ VZ/ FZ - Pro Series

Hi folks,

I'm wondering if the following is a common CZ-101 issue that has a known fix...

After having not used my CZ-101 for a while (which is in near mint condition, btw) I decided say hello again. Sadly, I discovered that it no longer properly powers up when connected to a 9V AC adapter (something I absolutely know worked fine in the past). However, it will power up and operate just fine when filled with batteries (and is not connected to an AC adaptor).

I have ruled out the AC adaptor(s) as a problem... I actually tried a few different ones and also checked the output of each with a voltmeter. All of the adaptors are working correctly.

When hooked up to AC power, the behavior that I observe on the CZ (regardless of which adaptor) is a brief simultaneous flash of the various red LEDs when pressing the power button, but then the unit immediately appears dead. All the LEDs are off and the LCD screen is blank. But, I also noticed that, if I "fiddle" with the power button (e.g., on/off very quickly) the CZ will start to power up, but then immediately begins flashing the power LED (as if the "auto-power off" feature is about to time-out) as soon as I stop fiddling, and then a relay clicks and the CZ turns off. This brief "powered up" state literally only last for about a second. This behavior is the same regardless of the position of the APO switch, btw.

I know what you're thinking... but I don't believe there is anything wrong the power switch (e.g., loose connection) because it and the CZ exhibit absolutely zero issues when powered by batteries. The power switch instantly turns the unit on and it stays powered on. Perfect behavior... no evidence of a bad switch or loose connection.

I do, however, suspect that come component related to the AC power input may have gone bad. I will probably open the unit up and take a look (I am familiar and comfortable with this sort of task, having repaired/restored other gear) but just thought check here for any tips before proceeding. I'm hoping that this type of odd AC power behavior rings a bell with someone.

Thanks!

- Matt

That's still an interesting observation.



Sent from my iPhone

On 3 Feb 2015, at 05:42, "dlonrattam@... [CZsynth]" <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> Okay, I spoke too soon.
> 
> 
> I checked some more online resources and found that the behavior I described can occur when the AC adaptor does supply enough current.  Turns out, 500ma is about the minimum CZ-101 needs to operate properly and I had only tried adaptors that were rated less than this.  I looked through my adapters and found one that could supply up to 850ma and the CZ powered right up when I connected it.
> 
> So, it was just user error.  :-}
> 
> Anyway, I hope this experience helps someone else who encounters the same problem.
>

On Mon, Feb 02, 2015 at 09:42:59PM -0800, dlonrattam@... [CZsynth] wrote:
> Okay, I spoke too soon. 
> 
>  I checked some more online resources and found that the behavior I described can occur when the AC adaptor does supply enough current.  Turns out, 500ma is about the minimum CZ-101 needs to operate properly and I had only tried adaptors that were rated less than this.  I looked through my adapters and found one that could supply up to 850ma and the CZ powered right up when I connected it.
>  

You beat me to it!  You *always* want power supplies that can supply more current than the equipment draws, and at roughly the right voltage.

I run all my 9V kit off a regulated 9V 12A power supply, with a couple of individually fused splitter cables (two or three cables fused at 2A each).

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ

Sounds to me you have a thermal problem with a rectification circuit. I don't remember if there are regulators in there, but the symptoms you describe are what a bad regulator does. What about the diodes that make the DC? The filter cap?
Rig 

     On Monday, February 2, 2015 8:20 PM, "dlonrattam@yahoo.com [CZsynth]" <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
   

     Hi folks,
I'm wondering if the following is a common CZ-101 issue that has a known fix...
After having not used my CZ-101 for a while (which is in near mint condition, btw) I decided say hello again.  Sadly, I discovered that it no longer properly powers up when connected to a 9V AC adapter (something I absolutely know worked fine in the past).  However, it will power up and operate just fine when filled with batteries (and is not connected to an AC adaptor).
I have ruled out the AC adaptor(s) as a problem...  I actually tried a few different ones and also checked the output of each with a voltmeter.  All of the adaptors are working correctly.
When hooked up to AC power, the behavior that I observe on the CZ (regardless of which adaptor) is a brief simultaneous flash of the various red LEDs when pressing the power button, but then the unit immediately appears dead.  All the LEDs are off and the LCD screen is blank.  But, I also noticed that, if I "fiddle" with the power button (e.g., on/off very quickly) the CZ will start to power up, but then immediately begins flashing the power LED (as if the "auto-power off" feature is about to time-out) as soon as I stop fiddling, and then a relay clicks and the CZ turns off.  This brief "powered up" state literally only last for about a second.  This behavior is the same regardless of the position of the APO switch, btw.
I know what you're thinking...  but I don't believe there is anything wrong the power switch (e.g., loose connection) because it and the CZ exhibit absolutely zero issues when powered by batteries.  The power switch instantly turns the unit on and it stays powered on.  Perfect behavior...  no evidence of a bad switch or loose connection.
I do, however, suspect that come component related to the AC power input may have gone bad.  I will probably open the unit up and take a look (I am familiar and comfortable with this sort of task, having repaired/restored other gear) but just thought check here for any tips before proceeding.  I'm hoping that this type of odd AC power behavior rings a bell with someone.
Thanks!- Matt

On Tue, Feb 03, 2015 at 02:00:30PM +0000, bill bigrig billbigrig@... [CZsynth] wrote:
> Sounds to me you have a thermal problem with a rectification circuit. I don't remember if there are regulators in there, but the symptoms you describe are what a bad regulator does. What about the diodes that make the DC? The filter cap?
> Rig 

Think he nailed it with the underpowered power supply thing.  You *always* want about 1A or more for these terrible old 80s synths.

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ

I'm quite sure Gordon loves old stuff as we all do, I feel some light  
humor and irony in his remark about "terrible" :-)

But seriously - I don't think so bad about newer synthesizers, there  
were some innovative machines, not only romplers with GM set... What  
about Yamaha FM/AFM machines, Advanced Vector Synthesis, or VL/VP,  
FS1r, EX5, then Roland LA synthesis, JD/JV, Korg Wavestation,  
Prophecy, Oasys, Z1, Kronos, Kawai K5000 series, Kurzweil VAST  
synthesis, Waldorf Microwave, EMU Z-plane synthesis, Technics WSA1  
Acoustic Modeling, Hartman Neuron...
And there are some virtual synthesizers and software with interesting  
approaches to sound synthesis (like Absynth, Metasynth, Zebra... and  
many others).

Also samplers can be used creatively...

Even with those GM sounds can be done a lot, creative user can go  
behind the limits (sometimes it's enough just to use sounds outside  
their usual range, or combine them, or do vector mix with them...).

Daniel Forro


On Feb 4, 2015, at 12:32 AM, Lee Borrell templarser@...  
[CZsynth] wrote:

> Terrible?! With the exception of analogue modelling,if you want  
> anything other than GM largely retro is the best option!
>
> Do remember that some of this stuff is multiple decades old and  
> still working!
>
> From: "gordon@... [CZsynth]" <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com>
> To: "bill bigrig billbigrig@... [CZsynth]" <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com 
> >
> Sent: Tuesday, 3 February 2015, 15:26
> Subject: Re: [CZsynth] CZ-101 powers up on batteries, but not with  
> AC adaptor
>
> On Tue, Feb 03, 2015 at 02:00:30PM +0000, bill bigrig billbigrig@... 
>  [CZsynth] wrote:
> > Sounds to me you have a thermal problem with a rectification  
> circuit. I don't remember if there are regulators in there, but the  
> symptoms you describe are what a bad regulator does. What about the  
> diodes that make the DC? The filter cap?
> > Rig
>
> Think he nailed it with the underpowered power supply thing. You  
> *always* want about 1A or more for these terrible old 80s synths.
>
> -- 
> Gordonjcp MM0YEQ
>
>

All grist to the mill...it is just there seems to be a plethora of GM synths on ebay which are much of a muchness. Kudos to those who innovate and create novel techniques.
PD was novel in its heyday!

      From: "Daniel Forró danforcz@... [CZsynth]" <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com>
 To: CZsynth@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, 3 February 2015, 16:46
 Subject: Re: [CZsynth] CZ-101 powers up on batteries, but not with AC adaptor
   
    I'm quite sure Gordon loves old stuff as we all do, I feel some light humor and irony in his remark about "terrible" :-)
But seriously - I don't think so bad about newer synthesizers, there were some innovative machines, not only romplers with GM set... What about Yamaha FM/AFM machines, Advanced Vector Synthesis, or VL/VP, FS1r, EX5, then Roland LA synthesis, JD/JV, Korg Wavestation, Prophecy, Oasys, Z1, Kronos, Kawai K5000 series, Kurzweil VAST synthesis, Waldorf Microwave, EMU Z-plane synthesis, Technics WSA1 Acoustic Modeling, Hartman Neuron...And there are some virtual synthesizers and software with interesting approaches to sound synthesis (like Absynth, Metasynth, Zebra... and many others).
Also samplers can be used creatively...
Even with those GM sounds can be done a lot, creative user can go behind the limits (sometimes it's enough just to use sounds outside their usual range, or combine them, or do vector mix with them...).
Daniel Forro



On Feb 4, 2015, at 12:32 AM, Lee Borrell templarser@... [CZsynth] wrote:

Terrible?! With the exception of analogue modelling,if you want anything other than GM largely retro is the best option!

Do remember that some of this stuff is multiple decades old and still working!

From: "gordon@... [CZsynth]" <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com>
To: "bill bigrig billbigrig@... [CZsynth]" <CZsynth@yahoogroups.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, 3 February 2015, 15:26
Subject: Re: [CZsynth] CZ-101 powers up on batteries, but not with AC adaptor

On Tue, Feb 03, 2015 at 02:00:30PM +0000, bill bigrig billbigrig@... [CZsynth] wrote:
> Sounds to me you have a thermal problem with a rectification circuit. I don't remember if there are regulators in there, but the symptoms you describe are what a bad regulator does. What about the diodes that make the DC? The filter cap?
> Rig 

Think he nailed it with the underpowered power supply thing. You *always* want about 1A or more for these terrible old 80s synths.

-- 
Gordonjcp MM0YEQ

Yes, it's so as you have written. I also think that the last Yamaha  
interesting synth is FS1r (which is what I have written). After 1998  
they offer only Motif...

Daniel Forro


On Feb 4, 2015, at 10:02 PM, Daniel Boles db0451@... [CZsynth]  
wrote:

>
>
> Yes but what you call "newer" here simply means 90s/early 00s,  
> instead of the 80s - sadly time continues to move faster than me/us,  
> and so the 90s and 00s are not 'new' any more ;-)
>
> What has there been in the recent decade or so, in hardware, that is  
> really revolutionary? Maybe some of the more clever soft synths -  
> but hardware seems to be on the way out ( - aside from all these,  
> mostly boring, overpriced machines to appease all the people who  
> think everything must be analogue to be valid - )
>
> Especially Yamaha, who you quoted, have only done boring ROMplers  
> since about 2002 or whenever they cancelled the FS1R. Sadly! Since,  
> indeed, they were really on a roll from the 80s to early 00s, with  
> so many great, diverse, and innovative systems.
>
> I guess Casio's newer machines with the VA and Hex Layer stuff were  
> kinda cool, although still no new synth types (as PD was in its day  
> - although ripped off from an older patent by Yamaha!)