And to make matter's worse, I was looking over at the Waldorfians to see
what they were doing, and I see that they do include bank midifiles as well
as a zip of the individual files in the format of
location.name.initials.category.
I see some merit in having patch locations first. Especially if you want to
create a bank, etc, etc, but on the other hand, when people are merely
saving single patches they won't necessarily be caring about filling up each
slot and vice versa.
There are so many competing theories and needs . . . aakk.
You know what? I am going to drop Dave a line and ask him whether the
temp/compare patch feature request will actually happen. If it will, it will
simplify our lives so much since all single patches will not need a location
to be listed.
What does anyone think?
>From: "Ravi Sharma" <noision1@...>
>Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
>To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Evolver] Re: Patch/Bank File Nomenclature
>Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 20:05:03 -0500
>
>I hear you when you say that without patch *and* bank indications then the
>alphebetizing will lay the banks after the a patches. But really, how many
>bank files are there going to be as opposed to patch files.
>
>I can compromise if you feel a strong need to indicate patch, but given
>that
>the vast majority of patch files will be single files, it seems like a lot
>of "patch" nomenclature when such is the norm, not the exception like a
>bank file.
>
>I agree with the idea to have 3 digits follwing the bank letter. That makes
>sense totally
>
>I can't get behind the idea of p and b for patch and bank, because while
>perhaps more streamlined, streamlining should not sacrifice easy
>comprehension. For a newcomer, what is p and b supposed to mean? Can't say
>that the term bank is too confusion. For the same reason I don't like two
>letter abreivations, because why should a creator or a user have to refer
>to
>some list to get it right or figure out what it is. Your list is a good
>start though, although I think we should expand it to three or even four
>letters where necessary. Like the patch name, I think we should do two
>things in regard to category naming. First we should not ask for a set
>amount of letters. i.e. people should be able to use bass and lead and org
>if they want. But we should simulaneously like you have started to do, set
>forth a "suggested" list of terms for category definition.
>
>Ravi
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "ski_ex5tech <ex5tech@...>" <ex5tech@...>
> >Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> >To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch/Bank File Nomenclature
> >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:53:17 -0000
> >
> >Well, if you really want to streamline... technically, you don't need
> >the word "bank" in front of the bank files,
> >either. "organ.RIS_hamncheese.A005.mid" would be recognizable as a
> >patch file because of the "A005" location,
> >whereas "RIS_electronica.C.syx" and "SKI_trancevested.ALL.mid" would
> >be recognized as bank files because of the "C" and the "ALL" location
> >designations.
> >
> >I appreciate and agree with the need to streamline, but I still think
> >there's merit to putting *something* at the very beginning of the
> >filename to indicate whether it's a single patch, or a bank file (or
> >maybe someday a waveform file). It would sure make things easier to
> >sort. If you only label the bank files, then your list of files
> >starts with some patch files that begin with "a" and some "b"s, goes
> >through all the bank files, then finishes with all the rest of the
> >patch files.
> >
> >How do you feel about a single letter to designate patch vs. bank as
> >a prefix in the filename? Something like:
> >
> >
> >"p.organ.RIS_hamncheese.A005.mid" and "b.RIS_electronica.C.syx"
> >
> >
> >BTW, we might consider the practice of always using three digit
> >numbers in the patch location. Given that they'll be a text string
> >with the bank letter in front of them, sticking with three digits
> >will make it a lot easier to sort in a database!
> >
> >
> >Another way to streamline would be to use two character category
> >abbreviations. Following is what is used in the EX5 (just as a
> >starting point for conversation):
> >
> >Pf - Piano (used for piano, electric piano, clavinet, harpsichord,
> >etc.)
> >Cp - Chromatic Percussion (tuned percussion like agogos and timpani)
> >Or - Organ
> >Gt - Guitar
> >Ba - Bass
> >St - Strings/Orchestral
> >En - Ensemble (combos like strings/brass, etc.)
> >Br - Brass (like trumpet, t-bone)
> >Rd - Reed (like sax, clarinet)
> >Pi - Pipe (like flute)
> >Ld - Lead Synth
> >Pd - Synth Pad
> >Fx - Synth Sound Effects
> >Et - Ethnic
> >Pc - Percussive
> >Se - Sound Effects
> >Dr - Drums
> >Sc - Synth Comping
> >Vo - Vocal
> >Co - Combination
> >Wv - Material Wave (read that "single cycle waveforms")
> >Sq - Sequence
> >
> >While not perfect, this list isn't a bad starting point, though among
> >other things, the "Wv" category obviously has no meaning for patches
> >(this same list of categories is used to classify samples).
> >
> >
> >Yet another way to streamline/shorten: The patch/bank name portion
> >of the filename could be limited to a certain number of characters,
> >like 12 or 15 or whatever.
> >
> >
> >Ski
> >www.ex5tech.com
> >EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> >http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> >
> >
> >--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Ivan Sharma"
> ><noision1@h...> wrote:
> > > Good. I think that "patch" is redundant though. I am trying to
> >streamline everything. If it doesn't have a special "bank" ("wave"?)
> >prefix, then it is a patch.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Ski <ex5tech@e...>
> > > To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:36 AM
> > > Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch Contest / User Forum Soundset
> > >
> > >
> > > I agree with your statements below.
> > >
> > > Location IS needed for a bank file, since a bank file can be
> >either a
> > > single bank, or all three banks. And yes, I agree that
> >the "sound
> > > category" really isn't needed for banks. If we used it, 99% of
> >them
> > > would be "Misc". I like your idea to actually put the
> >text "bank" at
> > > the BEGINNING of the filename (rather than denoting it in the end
> > > where I'd put it); that keeps bank files sorted together in a
> >long
> > > file list. We're going to put the text "patch" in front of all
> >the
> > > single patch files, too? Actually, if we get the sample import
> >thing
> > > worked out, it might be a real good idea to include the
> >text "patch"
> > > in front of a single patch file. Who knows, we might
> >have "sample"
> > > files too someday!
> > >
> > > Author initials for single patch files is an excellent idea.
> >Maybe
> > > it could be optional for bank files, too, for those banks that
> >are
> > > done entirely by one author; I don't know... there'd be a bit of
> > > redundancy with the documentation's list of patches. I also
> >think
> > > your UNDERSCORE, rather than another PERIOD to separate author
> >from
> > > patch/bank name was insightful. Given that author can be
> >optional,
> > > the underscore allows for consistent parsing of the entire
> >filename,
> > > because they'd all have the same number of periods in them (i.e.
> >you
> > > could easily programmatically put everything into a real database
> >at
> > > some point).
> > >
> > > OK, so here's the next round of examples:
> > >
> > >
> > > Single Patches (same as last time, but with "patch" in front)
> > > --------------
> > > "patch.bass.RIS_moog1.B45.mid"
> > > "patch.lead.SKI_dxsqueal.A13.syx"
> > >
> > > Banks
> > > -----
> > > "bank.RIS_electronica.B.syx" - (a one bank file that loads to
> >bank B)
> > > "bank.SKI_trancevested.ALL.mid" - (a three bank file)
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps the words "patch" and "bank" could be abbreviated
> >to "pch"
> > > and "bnk".
> > >
> > > And yes... if we get the new feature implemented that let's you
> >load
> > > a patch into any desired location, we can drop the location from
> >the
> > > file name.
> > >
> > > BTW - What do you know about me and "DX squeals"? Who have you
> >been
> > > talking to?! I have way too much FM gear... You didn't get any
> >of
> > > my DX patch banks back in the early/mid 80's, did you?
> > >
> > >
> > > Ski
> > > www.ex5tech.com
> > > EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> > > http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Sharma" <noision1@h...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > I wasn't thinking in terms of strict databases, but that
> >certainly
> > > can be
> > > > done later with ease once enought actual patches (and then
> >later
> > > banks) are
> > > > created. First, if we stick to collecting individual files we
> >can
> > > simply
> > > > have a list or folder containing files file name that includes
> >the
> > > author's
> > > > initials (optional) (waldorf style) but stated first rather
> >than
> > > after (for
> > > > sorting ease) hence:
> > > >
> > > > "category.initials_sound-name.location.suffix"
> > > >
> > > > e.g. "bass.RIS_moog1.B45.mid" or "lead.SKI_dxsqueal.A13.syx"
> > > >
> > > > After we have enough single patches to make up banks, then
> >anyone
> > > can simply
> > > > construct banks adhering (hopefully) to the following naming
> >format:
> > > >
> > > > "bank.name-of-bank.suffix" (is location of bank required? If so
> > > then
> > > > bank.name-of-bank.location.suffix")
> > > >
> > > > I don't believe a category is necessary for banks since the
> >name
> > > can be
> > > > descriptive itself.
> > > >
> > > > Once there are bank files, they should be accompanied by a
> >simple
> > > readme.txt
> > > > file that lists the included patches. Indeed a proper zipped
> >bank
> > > package
> > > > should have the bank file, the readme.txt file and all the
> > > individual files
> > > > zipped up and all represented in both .mid and .syx format.
> > > >
> > > > Databases for the purpose listing these things can be made by
> > > individuals
> > > > such as you me or anyone whenever. The only thing I see
> >technically
> > > missing
> > > > from the naming spec is a create date, however i am unsure how
> > > important
> > > > such is. Technically the original file uploaded should have a
> >date
> > > stamp.
> > > >
> > > > I think we are making progress towards a standard naming scheme
> > > which will
> > > > be helpful to maintain maximum user information and sortability.
> > > >
> > > > Of course, if Dave implements the highly desired compare/temp
> >patch
> > > which
> > > > will load any new single file into the temp patch location,
> >then we
> > > can do
> > > > away with the location field completely (except perhaps for
> >bank
> > > files if
> > > > necessary at all). Technically all the fields except name and
> > > suffix become
> > > > optional (although desired). Currently we really *need* the
> > > location if
> > > > anyone is know where the patch will be loaded.
> > > >
> > > > Ravi
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Ski <ex5tech@e...>" <ex5tech@e...>
> > > > >Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch Contest / User Forum Soundset
> > > > >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 05:46:35 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >Establishing a good set of sound categories, and a standard
> > > > >nomenclature for the filenames IS still quite important. It
> >will
> > > be
> > > > >a HUGE asset as the list of user files grows. It will also
> >make
> > > > >keeping such a database doable. We have tons of EX5 format
> >files.
> > > > >The EX5 has categories built into the file names, however, some
> > > > >people don't use them, or don't use them well. As a result,
> >it's a
> > > > >lot more difficult prospect for us to create a *useful*
> >database of
> > > > >EX5 patches (or "Voices", as Yamaha calls them). We're
> >working on
> > > > >it, though.
> > > > >
> > > > >I thought of one other little problem regarding Evolver FILE
> > > > >nomenclature with respect to the database you'd like to make,
> >Ravi.
> > > > >Given that SOME files will be BANK files, we'll need to be
> >sure
> > > that
> > > > >all BANK files come with a complete patch list, too. Patch
> >names
> > > on
> > > > >the patch list would need to use the same format nomenclature
> >as
> > > the
> > > > >single patch file names. Your database would then need a
> >minimum
> > > of
> > > > >four fields:
> > > > >
> > > > >1) The three part patch name (category.sound_name.location)
> > > > >
> > > > >2) The three part file name in which the patch exists
> > > > >(category.collection_name.location)
> > > > >
> > > > >3) The patch author
> > > > >
> > > > >4) Date authored
> > > > >
> > > > >Ideally, you'd want to break items 1 and 2 into separate
> >component
> > > > >fields, giving you a total of 8 fields. Actually I guess you
> > > *could*
> > > > >drop the "category" and "location" part of the FILE name in the
> > > > >database, since it would essentially be redundant with the
> >info for
> > > > >each of the individual patches. You'd need to keep that info
> >in
> > > the
> > > > >actual name of the file, though.
> > > > >
> > > > >BTW, this discussion is getting a bit fragged (multiple
> > > > >threads/emails). Once this project gets underway, it might be
> > > easier
> > > > >to follow if we make a single project specific thread in the
> > > EX5Tech
> > > > >forums. Of course, that's only if everyone's agreeable. I
> >don't
> > > > >want to risk losing participants if some of them dislike
> >forums.
> > > And
> > > > >again, if we run out of space in the Yahoo group, or have any
> >other
> > > > >problems with people uploading files, I can get them via email
> >and
> > > > >host them at ex5tech.com.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Ski
> > > > >www.ex5tech.com
> > > > >EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> > > > >http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [Evolver] Re: Patch/Bank File Nomenclature
2003-01-10 by Ravi Sharma