Dave Smith Instruments SYNTHESIZERS

I hear you when you say that without patch *and* bank indications then the 
alphebetizing will lay the banks after the  a patches. But really, how many 
bank files are there going to be as opposed to patch files.

I can compromise if you feel a strong need to indicate patch, but given that 
the vast majority of patch files will be single files, it seems like a lot 
of "patch" nomenclature when such is the norm, not the exception like a  
bank file.

I agree with the idea to have 3 digits follwing the bank letter. That makes 
sense totally

I can't get behind the idea of p and b for patch and bank, because while 
perhaps more streamlined, streamlining should not sacrifice easy 
comprehension. For a newcomer, what is p and b supposed to mean? Can't say 
that the term bank is too confusion. For the same reason I don't like two 
letter abreivations, because why should a creator or a user have to refer to 
some list to get it right or figure out what it is. Your list is a good 
start though, although I think we should expand it to three or even four 
letters where necessary. Like the patch name, I think we should do two 
things in regard to category naming. First we should not ask for a set 
amount of letters. i.e. people should be able to use bass and lead and org 
if they want. But we should simulaneously like you have started to do, set 
forth a "suggested" list of terms for category definition.

Ravi





>From: "ski_ex5tech <ex5tech@...>" <ex5tech@...>
>Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
>To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch/Bank File Nomenclature
>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:53:17 -0000
>
>Well, if you really want to streamline... technically, you don't need
>the word "bank" in front of the bank files,
>either.  "organ.RIS_hamncheese.A005.mid" would be recognizable as a
>patch file because of the "A005" location,
>whereas "RIS_electronica.C.syx" and "SKI_trancevested.ALL.mid" would
>be recognized as bank files because of the "C" and the "ALL" location
>designations.
>
>I appreciate and agree with the need to streamline, but I still think
>there's merit to putting *something* at the very beginning of the
>filename to indicate whether it's a single patch, or a bank file (or
>maybe someday a waveform file).  It would sure make things easier to
>sort.  If you only label the bank files, then your list of files
>starts with some patch files that begin with "a" and some "b"s, goes
>through all the bank files, then finishes with all the rest of the
>patch files.
>
>How do you feel about a single letter to designate patch vs. bank as
>a prefix in the filename?  Something like:
>
>
>"p.organ.RIS_hamncheese.A005.mid" and "b.RIS_electronica.C.syx"
>
>
>BTW, we might consider the practice of always using three digit
>numbers in the patch location.  Given that they'll be a text string
>with the bank letter in front of them, sticking with three digits
>will make it a lot easier to sort in a database!
>
>
>Another way to streamline would be to use two character category
>abbreviations.  Following is what is used in the EX5 (just as a
>starting point for conversation):
>
>Pf - Piano (used for piano, electric piano, clavinet, harpsichord,
>etc.)
>Cp - Chromatic Percussion (tuned percussion like agogos and timpani)
>Or - Organ
>Gt - Guitar
>Ba - Bass
>St - Strings/Orchestral
>En - Ensemble (combos like strings/brass, etc.)
>Br - Brass (like trumpet, t-bone)
>Rd - Reed (like sax, clarinet)
>Pi - Pipe (like flute)
>Ld - Lead Synth
>Pd - Synth Pad
>Fx - Synth Sound Effects
>Et - Ethnic
>Pc - Percussive
>Se - Sound Effects
>Dr - Drums
>Sc - Synth Comping
>Vo - Vocal
>Co - Combination
>Wv - Material Wave (read that "single cycle waveforms")
>Sq - Sequence
>
>While not perfect, this list isn't a bad starting point, though among
>other things, the "Wv" category obviously has no meaning for patches
>(this same list of categories is used to classify samples).
>
>
>Yet another way to streamline/shorten:  The patch/bank name portion
>of the filename could be limited to a certain number of characters,
>like 12 or 15 or whatever.
>
>
>Ski
>www.ex5tech.com
>EX5Tech Evolver forum:
>http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
>
>
>--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Ivan Sharma"
><noision1@h...> wrote:
> > Good. I think that "patch" is redundant though. I am trying to
>streamline everything. If it doesn't have a special "bank" ("wave"?)
>prefix, then it is a patch.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Ski <ex5tech@e...>
> >   To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> >   Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:36 AM
> >   Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch Contest / User Forum Soundset
> >
> >
> >   I agree with your statements below.
> >
> >   Location IS needed for a bank file, since a bank file can be
>either a
> >   single bank, or all three banks.  And yes, I agree that
>the "sound
> >   category" really isn't needed for banks.  If we used it, 99% of
>them
> >   would be "Misc".  I like your idea to actually put the
>text "bank" at
> >   the BEGINNING of the filename (rather than denoting it in the end
> >   where I'd put it);  that keeps bank files sorted together in a
>long
> >   file list.  We're going to put the text "patch" in front of all
>the
> >   single patch files, too?  Actually, if we get the sample import
>thing
> >   worked out, it might be a real good idea to include the
>text "patch"
> >   in front of a single patch file.  Who knows, we might
>have "sample"
> >   files too someday!
> >
> >   Author initials for single patch files is an excellent idea.
>Maybe
> >   it could be optional for bank files, too, for those banks that
>are
> >   done entirely by one author;  I don't know... there'd be a bit of
> >   redundancy with the documentation's list of patches.  I also
>think
> >   your UNDERSCORE, rather than another PERIOD to separate author
>from
> >   patch/bank name was insightful.  Given that author can be
>optional,
> >   the underscore allows for consistent parsing of the entire
>filename,
> >   because they'd all have the same number of periods in them (i.e.
>you
> >   could easily programmatically put everything into a real database
>at
> >   some point).
> >
> >   OK, so here's the next round of examples:
> >
> >
> >   Single Patches (same as last time, but with "patch" in front)
> >   --------------
> >   "patch.bass.RIS_moog1.B45.mid"
> >   "patch.lead.SKI_dxsqueal.A13.syx"
> >
> >   Banks
> >   -----
> >   "bank.RIS_electronica.B.syx" - (a one bank file that loads to
>bank B)
> >   "bank.SKI_trancevested.ALL.mid" - (a three bank file)
> >
> >
> >   Perhaps the words "patch" and "bank" could be abbreviated
>to "pch"
> >   and "bnk".
> >
> >   And yes... if we get the new feature implemented that let's you
>load
> >   a patch into any desired location, we can drop the location from
>the
> >   file name.
> >
> >   BTW - What do you know about me and "DX squeals"?  Who have you
>been
> >   talking to?!  I have way too much FM gear...  You didn't get any
>of
> >   my DX patch banks back in the early/mid 80's, did you?
> >
> >
> >   Ski
> >   www.ex5tech.com
> >   EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> >   http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> >
> >
> >
> >   --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Sharma" <noision1@h...>
> >   wrote:
> >   > I wasn't thinking in terms of strict databases, but that
>certainly
> >   can be
> >   > done later with ease once enought actual patches (and then
>later
> >   banks) are
> >   > created. First, if we stick to collecting individual files we
>can
> >   simply
> >   > have a list or folder containing files file name that includes
>the
> >   author's
> >   > initials (optional) (waldorf style) but stated first rather
>than
> >   after (for
> >   > sorting ease) hence:
> >   >
> >   > "category.initials_sound-name.location.suffix"
> >   >
> >   > e.g. "bass.RIS_moog1.B45.mid" or "lead.SKI_dxsqueal.A13.syx"
> >   >
> >   > After we have enough single patches to make up banks, then
>anyone
> >   can simply
> >   > construct banks adhering (hopefully) to the following naming
>format:
> >   >
> >   > "bank.name-of-bank.suffix" (is location of bank required? If so
> >   then
> >   > bank.name-of-bank.location.suffix")
> >   >
> >   > I don't believe a category is necessary for banks since the
>name
> >   can be
> >   > descriptive itself.
> >   >
> >   > Once there are bank files, they should be accompanied by a
>simple
> >   readme.txt
> >   > file that lists the included patches. Indeed a proper zipped
>bank
> >   package
> >   > should have the bank file, the readme.txt file and all the
> >   individual files
> >   > zipped up and all represented in both .mid and .syx format.
> >   >
> >   > Databases for the purpose listing these things can be made by
> >   individuals
> >   > such as you me or anyone whenever. The only thing I see
>technically
> >   missing
> >   > from the naming spec is a create date, however i am unsure how
> >   important
> >   > such is. Technically the original file uploaded should have a
>date
> >   stamp.
> >   >
> >   > I think we are making progress towards a standard naming scheme
> >   which will
> >   > be helpful to maintain maximum user information and sortability.
> >   >
> >   > Of course, if Dave implements the highly desired compare/temp
>patch
> >   which
> >   > will load any new single file into the temp patch location,
>then we
> >   can do
> >   > away with the location field completely (except perhaps for
>bank
> >   files if
> >   > necessary at all). Technically all the fields except name and
> >   suffix become
> >   > optional (although desired). Currently we really *need* the
> >   location if
> >   > anyone is know where the patch will be loaded.
> >   >
> >   > Ravi
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > >From: "Ski <ex5tech@e...>" <ex5tech@e...>
> >   > >Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> >   > >To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> >   > >Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch Contest / User Forum Soundset
> >   > >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 05:46:35 -0000
> >   > >
> >   > >Establishing a good set of sound categories, and a standard
> >   > >nomenclature for the filenames IS still quite important.  It
>will
> >   be
> >   > >a HUGE asset as the list of user files grows.  It will also
>make
> >   > >keeping such a database doable.  We have tons of EX5 format
>files.
> >   > >The EX5 has categories built into the file names, however, some
> >   > >people don't use them, or don't use them well.  As a result,
>it's a
> >   > >lot more difficult prospect for us to create a *useful*
>database of
> >   > >EX5 patches (or "Voices", as Yamaha calls them).  We're
>working on
> >   > >it, though.
> >   > >
> >   > >I thought of one other little problem regarding Evolver FILE
> >   > >nomenclature with respect to the database you'd like to make,
>Ravi.
> >   > >Given that SOME files will be BANK files, we'll need to be
>sure
> >   that
> >   > >all BANK files come with a complete patch list, too.  Patch
>names
> >   on
> >   > >the patch list would need to use the same format nomenclature
>as
> >   the
> >   > >single patch file names.  Your database would then need a
>minimum
> >   of
> >   > >four fields:
> >   > >
> >   > >1) The three part patch name (category.sound_name.location)
> >   > >
> >   > >2) The three part file name in which the patch exists
> >   > >(category.collection_name.location)
> >   > >
> >   > >3) The patch author
> >   > >
> >   > >4) Date authored
> >   > >
> >   > >Ideally, you'd want to break items 1 and 2 into separate
>component
> >   > >fields, giving you a total of 8 fields.  Actually I guess you
> >   *could*
> >   > >drop the "category" and "location" part of the FILE name in the
> >   > >database, since it would essentially be redundant with the
>info for
> >   > >each of the individual patches.  You'd need to keep that info
>in
> >   the
> >   > >actual name of the file, though.
> >   > >
> >   > >BTW, this discussion is getting a bit fragged (multiple
> >   > >threads/emails).  Once this project gets underway, it might be
> >   easier
> >   > >to follow if we make a single project specific thread in the
> >   EX5Tech
> >   > >forums.  Of course, that's only if everyone's agreeable.  I
>don't
> >   > >want to risk losing participants if some of them dislike
>forums.
> >   And
> >   > >again, if we run out of space in the Yahoo group, or have any
>other
> >   > >problems with people uploading files, I can get them via email
>and
> >   > >host them at ex5tech.com.
> >   > >
> >   > >
> >   > >Ski
> >   > >www.ex5tech.com
> >   > >EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> >   > >http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> >   > >
> >   > >
>
>


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And to make matter's worse, I was looking over at the Waldorfians to see 
what they were doing, and I see that they do include bank midifiles as well 
as a zip of the individual files in the format of 
location.name.initials.category.

I see some merit in having patch locations first. Especially if you want to 
create a bank, etc, etc, but on the other hand, when people are merely 
saving single patches they won't necessarily be caring about filling up each 
slot and vice versa.

There are so many competing theories and needs . . . aakk.

You know what? I am going to drop Dave a line and ask him whether the 
temp/compare patch feature request will actually happen. If it will, it will 
simplify our lives so much since all single patches will not need a location 
to be listed.

What does anyone think?






>From: "Ravi Sharma" <noision1@...>
>Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
>To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Evolver] Re: Patch/Bank File Nomenclature
>Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 20:05:03 -0500
>
>I hear you when you say that without patch *and* bank indications then the
>alphebetizing will lay the banks after the  a patches. But really, how many
>bank files are there going to be as opposed to patch files.
>
>I can compromise if you feel a strong need to indicate patch, but given 
>that
>the vast majority of patch files will be single files, it seems like a lot
>of "patch" nomenclature when such is the norm, not the exception like a
>bank file.
>
>I agree with the idea to have 3 digits follwing the bank letter. That makes
>sense totally
>
>I can't get behind the idea of p and b for patch and bank, because while
>perhaps more streamlined, streamlining should not sacrifice easy
>comprehension. For a newcomer, what is p and b supposed to mean? Can't say
>that the term bank is too confusion. For the same reason I don't like two
>letter abreivations, because why should a creator or a user have to refer 
>to
>some list to get it right or figure out what it is. Your list is a good
>start though, although I think we should expand it to three or even four
>letters where necessary. Like the patch name, I think we should do two
>things in regard to category naming. First we should not ask for a set
>amount of letters. i.e. people should be able to use bass and lead and org
>if they want. But we should simulaneously like you have started to do, set
>forth a "suggested" list of terms for category definition.
>
>Ravi
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "ski_ex5tech <ex5tech@...>" <ex5tech@...>
> >Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> >To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch/Bank File Nomenclature
> >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:53:17 -0000
> >
> >Well, if you really want to streamline... technically, you don't need
> >the word "bank" in front of the bank files,
> >either.  "organ.RIS_hamncheese.A005.mid" would be recognizable as a
> >patch file because of the "A005" location,
> >whereas "RIS_electronica.C.syx" and "SKI_trancevested.ALL.mid" would
> >be recognized as bank files because of the "C" and the "ALL" location
> >designations.
> >
> >I appreciate and agree with the need to streamline, but I still think
> >there's merit to putting *something* at the very beginning of the
> >filename to indicate whether it's a single patch, or a bank file (or
> >maybe someday a waveform file).  It would sure make things easier to
> >sort.  If you only label the bank files, then your list of files
> >starts with some patch files that begin with "a" and some "b"s, goes
> >through all the bank files, then finishes with all the rest of the
> >patch files.
> >
> >How do you feel about a single letter to designate patch vs. bank as
> >a prefix in the filename?  Something like:
> >
> >
> >"p.organ.RIS_hamncheese.A005.mid" and "b.RIS_electronica.C.syx"
> >
> >
> >BTW, we might consider the practice of always using three digit
> >numbers in the patch location.  Given that they'll be a text string
> >with the bank letter in front of them, sticking with three digits
> >will make it a lot easier to sort in a database!
> >
> >
> >Another way to streamline would be to use two character category
> >abbreviations.  Following is what is used in the EX5 (just as a
> >starting point for conversation):
> >
> >Pf - Piano (used for piano, electric piano, clavinet, harpsichord,
> >etc.)
> >Cp - Chromatic Percussion (tuned percussion like agogos and timpani)
> >Or - Organ
> >Gt - Guitar
> >Ba - Bass
> >St - Strings/Orchestral
> >En - Ensemble (combos like strings/brass, etc.)
> >Br - Brass (like trumpet, t-bone)
> >Rd - Reed (like sax, clarinet)
> >Pi - Pipe (like flute)
> >Ld - Lead Synth
> >Pd - Synth Pad
> >Fx - Synth Sound Effects
> >Et - Ethnic
> >Pc - Percussive
> >Se - Sound Effects
> >Dr - Drums
> >Sc - Synth Comping
> >Vo - Vocal
> >Co - Combination
> >Wv - Material Wave (read that "single cycle waveforms")
> >Sq - Sequence
> >
> >While not perfect, this list isn't a bad starting point, though among
> >other things, the "Wv" category obviously has no meaning for patches
> >(this same list of categories is used to classify samples).
> >
> >
> >Yet another way to streamline/shorten:  The patch/bank name portion
> >of the filename could be limited to a certain number of characters,
> >like 12 or 15 or whatever.
> >
> >
> >Ski
> >www.ex5tech.com
> >EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> >http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> >
> >
> >--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Ivan Sharma"
> ><noision1@h...> wrote:
> > > Good. I think that "patch" is redundant though. I am trying to
> >streamline everything. If it doesn't have a special "bank" ("wave"?)
> >prefix, then it is a patch.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >   From: Ski <ex5tech@e...>
> > >   To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > >   Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:36 AM
> > >   Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch Contest / User Forum Soundset
> > >
> > >
> > >   I agree with your statements below.
> > >
> > >   Location IS needed for a bank file, since a bank file can be
> >either a
> > >   single bank, or all three banks.  And yes, I agree that
> >the "sound
> > >   category" really isn't needed for banks.  If we used it, 99% of
> >them
> > >   would be "Misc".  I like your idea to actually put the
> >text "bank" at
> > >   the BEGINNING of the filename (rather than denoting it in the end
> > >   where I'd put it);  that keeps bank files sorted together in a
> >long
> > >   file list.  We're going to put the text "patch" in front of all
> >the
> > >   single patch files, too?  Actually, if we get the sample import
> >thing
> > >   worked out, it might be a real good idea to include the
> >text "patch"
> > >   in front of a single patch file.  Who knows, we might
> >have "sample"
> > >   files too someday!
> > >
> > >   Author initials for single patch files is an excellent idea.
> >Maybe
> > >   it could be optional for bank files, too, for those banks that
> >are
> > >   done entirely by one author;  I don't know... there'd be a bit of
> > >   redundancy with the documentation's list of patches.  I also
> >think
> > >   your UNDERSCORE, rather than another PERIOD to separate author
> >from
> > >   patch/bank name was insightful.  Given that author can be
> >optional,
> > >   the underscore allows for consistent parsing of the entire
> >filename,
> > >   because they'd all have the same number of periods in them (i.e.
> >you
> > >   could easily programmatically put everything into a real database
> >at
> > >   some point).
> > >
> > >   OK, so here's the next round of examples:
> > >
> > >
> > >   Single Patches (same as last time, but with "patch" in front)
> > >   --------------
> > >   "patch.bass.RIS_moog1.B45.mid"
> > >   "patch.lead.SKI_dxsqueal.A13.syx"
> > >
> > >   Banks
> > >   -----
> > >   "bank.RIS_electronica.B.syx" - (a one bank file that loads to
> >bank B)
> > >   "bank.SKI_trancevested.ALL.mid" - (a three bank file)
> > >
> > >
> > >   Perhaps the words "patch" and "bank" could be abbreviated
> >to "pch"
> > >   and "bnk".
> > >
> > >   And yes... if we get the new feature implemented that let's you
> >load
> > >   a patch into any desired location, we can drop the location from
> >the
> > >   file name.
> > >
> > >   BTW - What do you know about me and "DX squeals"?  Who have you
> >been
> > >   talking to?!  I have way too much FM gear...  You didn't get any
> >of
> > >   my DX patch banks back in the early/mid 80's, did you?
> > >
> > >
> > >   Ski
> > >   www.ex5tech.com
> > >   EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> > >   http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Sharma" <noision1@h...>
> > >   wrote:
> > >   > I wasn't thinking in terms of strict databases, but that
> >certainly
> > >   can be
> > >   > done later with ease once enought actual patches (and then
> >later
> > >   banks) are
> > >   > created. First, if we stick to collecting individual files we
> >can
> > >   simply
> > >   > have a list or folder containing files file name that includes
> >the
> > >   author's
> > >   > initials (optional) (waldorf style) but stated first rather
> >than
> > >   after (for
> > >   > sorting ease) hence:
> > >   >
> > >   > "category.initials_sound-name.location.suffix"
> > >   >
> > >   > e.g. "bass.RIS_moog1.B45.mid" or "lead.SKI_dxsqueal.A13.syx"
> > >   >
> > >   > After we have enough single patches to make up banks, then
> >anyone
> > >   can simply
> > >   > construct banks adhering (hopefully) to the following naming
> >format:
> > >   >
> > >   > "bank.name-of-bank.suffix" (is location of bank required? If so
> > >   then
> > >   > bank.name-of-bank.location.suffix")
> > >   >
> > >   > I don't believe a category is necessary for banks since the
> >name
> > >   can be
> > >   > descriptive itself.
> > >   >
> > >   > Once there are bank files, they should be accompanied by a
> >simple
> > >   readme.txt
> > >   > file that lists the included patches. Indeed a proper zipped
> >bank
> > >   package
> > >   > should have the bank file, the readme.txt file and all the
> > >   individual files
> > >   > zipped up and all represented in both .mid and .syx format.
> > >   >
> > >   > Databases for the purpose listing these things can be made by
> > >   individuals
> > >   > such as you me or anyone whenever. The only thing I see
> >technically
> > >   missing
> > >   > from the naming spec is a create date, however i am unsure how
> > >   important
> > >   > such is. Technically the original file uploaded should have a
> >date
> > >   stamp.
> > >   >
> > >   > I think we are making progress towards a standard naming scheme
> > >   which will
> > >   > be helpful to maintain maximum user information and sortability.
> > >   >
> > >   > Of course, if Dave implements the highly desired compare/temp
> >patch
> > >   which
> > >   > will load any new single file into the temp patch location,
> >then we
> > >   can do
> > >   > away with the location field completely (except perhaps for
> >bank
> > >   files if
> > >   > necessary at all). Technically all the fields except name and
> > >   suffix become
> > >   > optional (although desired). Currently we really *need* the
> > >   location if
> > >   > anyone is know where the patch will be loaded.
> > >   >
> > >   > Ravi
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   > >From: "Ski <ex5tech@e...>" <ex5tech@e...>
> > >   > >Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > >   > >To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > >   > >Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch Contest / User Forum Soundset
> > >   > >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 05:46:35 -0000
> > >   > >
> > >   > >Establishing a good set of sound categories, and a standard
> > >   > >nomenclature for the filenames IS still quite important.  It
> >will
> > >   be
> > >   > >a HUGE asset as the list of user files grows.  It will also
> >make
> > >   > >keeping such a database doable.  We have tons of EX5 format
> >files.
> > >   > >The EX5 has categories built into the file names, however, some
> > >   > >people don't use them, or don't use them well.  As a result,
> >it's a
> > >   > >lot more difficult prospect for us to create a *useful*
> >database of
> > >   > >EX5 patches (or "Voices", as Yamaha calls them).  We're
> >working on
> > >   > >it, though.
> > >   > >
> > >   > >I thought of one other little problem regarding Evolver FILE
> > >   > >nomenclature with respect to the database you'd like to make,
> >Ravi.
> > >   > >Given that SOME files will be BANK files, we'll need to be
> >sure
> > >   that
> > >   > >all BANK files come with a complete patch list, too.  Patch
> >names
> > >   on
> > >   > >the patch list would need to use the same format nomenclature
> >as
> > >   the
> > >   > >single patch file names.  Your database would then need a
> >minimum
> > >   of
> > >   > >four fields:
> > >   > >
> > >   > >1) The three part patch name (category.sound_name.location)
> > >   > >
> > >   > >2) The three part file name in which the patch exists
> > >   > >(category.collection_name.location)
> > >   > >
> > >   > >3) The patch author
> > >   > >
> > >   > >4) Date authored
> > >   > >
> > >   > >Ideally, you'd want to break items 1 and 2 into separate
> >component
> > >   > >fields, giving you a total of 8 fields.  Actually I guess you
> > >   *could*
> > >   > >drop the "category" and "location" part of the FILE name in the
> > >   > >database, since it would essentially be redundant with the
> >info for
> > >   > >each of the individual patches.  You'd need to keep that info
> >in
> > >   the
> > >   > >actual name of the file, though.
> > >   > >
> > >   > >BTW, this discussion is getting a bit fragged (multiple
> > >   > >threads/emails).  Once this project gets underway, it might be
> > >   easier
> > >   > >to follow if we make a single project specific thread in the
> > >   EX5Tech
> > >   > >forums.  Of course, that's only if everyone's agreeable.  I
> >don't
> > >   > >want to risk losing participants if some of them dislike
> >forums.
> > >   And
> > >   > >again, if we run out of space in the Yahoo group, or have any
> >other
> > >   > >problems with people uploading files, I can get them via email
> >and
> > >   > >host them at ex5tech.com.
> > >   > >
> > >   > >
> > >   > >Ski
> > >   > >www.ex5tech.com
> > >   > >EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> > >   > >http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> > >   > >
> > >   > >
> >
> >
>
>
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As far as patch trading/sharing goes, I've got this to say:

I thought that earlier on, Ravi was talking about only ever sending single 
patches with number 128. This makes sense to me, as if you have a directory 
of patches you want to audition one at a time, you can send them to the 
evolver one at a time, and they will only ever load into the one "scratch" 
location, where you can audition them. If you want to save a particular 
patch, then it's up to you to copy it to another spare location in your 
evolver. All this would require is that whoever dumps the patches to their 
computer, first copies them to location 128, then dumps them.

I guarantee it will save a lot of people the pain of trashed work in the 
future if we do this one thing. And anyway - the idea of a scratch patch, 
with a user interface like the evolver's, is something that should really be 
encouraged.

As for .mid and .syx, the obvious choice seems, to me, to be .syx.... a .mid 
file is simply a .syx message wrapped up in a standard MIDI file. We may as 
well just make it a sysex message, as any sequencer should be able to import 
.syx files, for anyone who wants to use a sequencer. While the .syx format 
is great for bulk loader programs,  which may or may not choke on a .mid 
file. Plus, a .syx file saves (an albeit tiny) amount of storage and 
transmission space.

As far as sorting single/bank/wave dumps, the easiest thing would be to keep 
them in different directories. They're different things!
The other thing to keep in mind, is that if they do get mixed up you can 
easily sort them out again by their actual file size.

Oh well...

One more thing. I've been spending a bit of time lately making up some 
rhythmic audio processing patches with the evolver. If I get them dumped to 
my PC this weekend, would I put them up in the "files" section of this 
group, or just on my own web space?



julian


--
http://bleepin.com - "Got Bleep?"








>From: "Ravi Sharma" <noision1@...>
>Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
>To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Evolver] Re: Patch/Bank File Nomenclature
>Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 20:05:03 -0500
>
>I hear you when you say that without patch *and* bank indications then the
>alphebetizing will lay the banks after the  a patches. But really, how many
>bank files are there going to be as opposed to patch files.
>
>I can compromise if you feel a strong need to indicate patch, but given 
>that
>the vast majority of patch files will be single files, it seems like a lot
>of "patch" nomenclature when such is the norm, not the exception like a
>bank file.
>
>I agree with the idea to have 3 digits follwing the bank letter. That makes
>sense totally
>
>I can't get behind the idea of p and b for patch and bank, because while
>perhaps more streamlined, streamlining should not sacrifice easy
>comprehension. For a newcomer, what is p and b supposed to mean? Can't say
>that the term bank is too confusion. For the same reason I don't like two
>letter abreivations, because why should a creator or a user have to refer 
>to
>some list to get it right or figure out what it is. Your list is a good
>start though, although I think we should expand it to three or even four
>letters where necessary. Like the patch name, I think we should do two
>things in regard to category naming. First we should not ask for a set
>amount of letters. i.e. people should be able to use bass and lead and org
>if they want. But we should simulaneously like you have started to do, set
>forth a "suggested" list of terms for category definition.
>
>Ravi
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "ski_ex5tech <ex5tech@...>" <ex5tech@...>
> >Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> >To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch/Bank File Nomenclature
> >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:53:17 -0000
> >
> >Well, if you really want to streamline... technically, you don't need
> >the word "bank" in front of the bank files,
> >either.  "organ.RIS_hamncheese.A005.mid" would be recognizable as a
> >patch file because of the "A005" location,
> >whereas "RIS_electronica.C.syx" and "SKI_trancevested.ALL.mid" would
> >be recognized as bank files because of the "C" and the "ALL" location
> >designations.
> >
> >I appreciate and agree with the need to streamline, but I still think
> >there's merit to putting *something* at the very beginning of the
> >filename to indicate whether it's a single patch, or a bank file (or
> >maybe someday a waveform file).  It would sure make things easier to
> >sort.  If you only label the bank files, then your list of files
> >starts with some patch files that begin with "a" and some "b"s, goes
> >through all the bank files, then finishes with all the rest of the
> >patch files.
> >
> >How do you feel about a single letter to designate patch vs. bank as
> >a prefix in the filename?  Something like:
> >
> >
> >"p.organ.RIS_hamncheese.A005.mid" and "b.RIS_electronica.C.syx"
> >
> >
> >BTW, we might consider the practice of always using three digit
> >numbers in the patch location.  Given that they'll be a text string
> >with the bank letter in front of them, sticking with three digits
> >will make it a lot easier to sort in a database!
> >
> >
> >Another way to streamline would be to use two character category
> >abbreviations.  Following is what is used in the EX5 (just as a
> >starting point for conversation):
> >
> >Pf - Piano (used for piano, electric piano, clavinet, harpsichord,
> >etc.)
> >Cp - Chromatic Percussion (tuned percussion like agogos and timpani)
> >Or - Organ
> >Gt - Guitar
> >Ba - Bass
> >St - Strings/Orchestral
> >En - Ensemble (combos like strings/brass, etc.)
> >Br - Brass (like trumpet, t-bone)
> >Rd - Reed (like sax, clarinet)
> >Pi - Pipe (like flute)
> >Ld - Lead Synth
> >Pd - Synth Pad
> >Fx - Synth Sound Effects
> >Et - Ethnic
> >Pc - Percussive
> >Se - Sound Effects
> >Dr - Drums
> >Sc - Synth Comping
> >Vo - Vocal
> >Co - Combination
> >Wv - Material Wave (read that "single cycle waveforms")
> >Sq - Sequence
> >
> >While not perfect, this list isn't a bad starting point, though among
> >other things, the "Wv" category obviously has no meaning for patches
> >(this same list of categories is used to classify samples).
> >
> >
> >Yet another way to streamline/shorten:  The patch/bank name portion
> >of the filename could be limited to a certain number of characters,
> >like 12 or 15 or whatever.
> >
> >
> >Ski
> >www.ex5tech.com
> >EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> >http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> >
> >
> >--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Ivan Sharma"
> ><noision1@h...> wrote:
> > > Good. I think that "patch" is redundant though. I am trying to
> >streamline everything. If it doesn't have a special "bank" ("wave"?)
> >prefix, then it is a patch.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >   From: Ski <ex5tech@e...>
> > >   To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > >   Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:36 AM
> > >   Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch Contest / User Forum Soundset
> > >
> > >
> > >   I agree with your statements below.
> > >
> > >   Location IS needed for a bank file, since a bank file can be
> >either a
> > >   single bank, or all three banks.  And yes, I agree that
> >the "sound
> > >   category" really isn't needed for banks.  If we used it, 99% of
> >them
> > >   would be "Misc".  I like your idea to actually put the
> >text "bank" at
> > >   the BEGINNING of the filename (rather than denoting it in the end
> > >   where I'd put it);  that keeps bank files sorted together in a
> >long
> > >   file list.  We're going to put the text "patch" in front of all
> >the
> > >   single patch files, too?  Actually, if we get the sample import
> >thing
> > >   worked out, it might be a real good idea to include the
> >text "patch"
> > >   in front of a single patch file.  Who knows, we might
> >have "sample"
> > >   files too someday!
> > >
> > >   Author initials for single patch files is an excellent idea.
> >Maybe
> > >   it could be optional for bank files, too, for those banks that
> >are
> > >   done entirely by one author;  I don't know... there'd be a bit of
> > >   redundancy with the documentation's list of patches.  I also
> >think
> > >   your UNDERSCORE, rather than another PERIOD to separate author
> >from
> > >   patch/bank name was insightful.  Given that author can be
> >optional,
> > >   the underscore allows for consistent parsing of the entire
> >filename,
> > >   because they'd all have the same number of periods in them (i.e.
> >you
> > >   could easily programmatically put everything into a real database
> >at
> > >   some point).
> > >
> > >   OK, so here's the next round of examples:
> > >
> > >
> > >   Single Patches (same as last time, but with "patch" in front)
> > >   --------------
> > >   "patch.bass.RIS_moog1.B45.mid"
> > >   "patch.lead.SKI_dxsqueal.A13.syx"
> > >
> > >   Banks
> > >   -----
> > >   "bank.RIS_electronica.B.syx" - (a one bank file that loads to
> >bank B)
> > >   "bank.SKI_trancevested.ALL.mid" - (a three bank file)
> > >
> > >
> > >   Perhaps the words "patch" and "bank" could be abbreviated
> >to "pch"
> > >   and "bnk".
> > >
> > >   And yes... if we get the new feature implemented that let's you
> >load
> > >   a patch into any desired location, we can drop the location from
> >the
> > >   file name.
> > >
> > >   BTW - What do you know about me and "DX squeals"?  Who have you
> >been
> > >   talking to?!  I have way too much FM gear...  You didn't get any
> >of
> > >   my DX patch banks back in the early/mid 80's, did you?
> > >
> > >
> > >   Ski
> > >   www.ex5tech.com
> > >   EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> > >   http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Sharma" <noision1@h...>
> > >   wrote:
> > >   > I wasn't thinking in terms of strict databases, but that
> >certainly
> > >   can be
> > >   > done later with ease once enought actual patches (and then
> >later
> > >   banks) are
> > >   > created. First, if we stick to collecting individual files we
> >can
> > >   simply
> > >   > have a list or folder containing files file name that includes
> >the
> > >   author's
> > >   > initials (optional) (waldorf style) but stated first rather
> >than
> > >   after (for
> > >   > sorting ease) hence:
> > >   >
> > >   > "category.initials_sound-name.location.suffix"
> > >   >
> > >   > e.g. "bass.RIS_moog1.B45.mid" or "lead.SKI_dxsqueal.A13.syx"
> > >   >
> > >   > After we have enough single patches to make up banks, then
> >anyone
> > >   can simply
> > >   > construct banks adhering (hopefully) to the following naming
> >format:
> > >   >
> > >   > "bank.name-of-bank.suffix" (is location of bank required? If so
> > >   then
> > >   > bank.name-of-bank.location.suffix")
> > >   >
> > >   > I don't believe a category is necessary for banks since the
> >name
> > >   can be
> > >   > descriptive itself.
> > >   >
> > >   > Once there are bank files, they should be accompanied by a
> >simple
> > >   readme.txt
> > >   > file that lists the included patches. Indeed a proper zipped
> >bank
> > >   package
> > >   > should have the bank file, the readme.txt file and all the
> > >   individual files
> > >   > zipped up and all represented in both .mid and .syx format.
> > >   >
> > >   > Databases for the purpose listing these things can be made by
> > >   individuals
> > >   > such as you me or anyone whenever. The only thing I see
> >technically
> > >   missing
> > >   > from the naming spec is a create date, however i am unsure how
> > >   important
> > >   > such is. Technically the original file uploaded should have a
> >date
> > >   stamp.
> > >   >
> > >   > I think we are making progress towards a standard naming scheme
> > >   which will
> > >   > be helpful to maintain maximum user information and sortability.
> > >   >
> > >   > Of course, if Dave implements the highly desired compare/temp
> >patch
> > >   which
> > >   > will load any new single file into the temp patch location,
> >then we
> > >   can do
> > >   > away with the location field completely (except perhaps for
> >bank
> > >   files if
> > >   > necessary at all). Technically all the fields except name and
> > >   suffix become
> > >   > optional (although desired). Currently we really *need* the
> > >   location if
> > >   > anyone is know where the patch will be loaded.
> > >   >
> > >   > Ravi
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   > >From: "Ski <ex5tech@e...>" <ex5tech@e...>
> > >   > >Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > >   > >To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > >   > >Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch Contest / User Forum Soundset
> > >   > >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 05:46:35 -0000
> > >   > >
> > >   > >Establishing a good set of sound categories, and a standard
> > >   > >nomenclature for the filenames IS still quite important.  It
> >will
> > >   be
> > >   > >a HUGE asset as the list of user files grows.  It will also
> >make
> > >   > >keeping such a database doable.  We have tons of EX5 format
> >files.
> > >   > >The EX5 has categories built into the file names, however, some
> > >   > >people don't use them, or don't use them well.  As a result,
> >it's a
> > >   > >lot more difficult prospect for us to create a *useful*
> >database of
> > >   > >EX5 patches (or "Voices", as Yamaha calls them).  We're
> >working on
> > >   > >it, though.
> > >   > >
> > >   > >I thought of one other little problem regarding Evolver FILE
> > >   > >nomenclature with respect to the database you'd like to make,
> >Ravi.
> > >   > >Given that SOME files will be BANK files, we'll need to be
> >sure
> > >   that
> > >   > >all BANK files come with a complete patch list, too.  Patch
> >names
> > >   on
> > >   > >the patch list would need to use the same format nomenclature
> >as
> > >   the
> > >   > >single patch file names.  Your database would then need a
> >minimum
> > >   of
> > >   > >four fields:
> > >   > >
> > >   > >1) The three part patch name (category.sound_name.location)
> > >   > >
> > >   > >2) The three part file name in which the patch exists
> > >   > >(category.collection_name.location)
> > >   > >
> > >   > >3) The patch author
> > >   > >
> > >   > >4) Date authored
> > >   > >
> > >   > >Ideally, you'd want to break items 1 and 2 into separate
> >component
> > >   > >fields, giving you a total of 8 fields.  Actually I guess you
> > >   *could*
> > >   > >drop the "category" and "location" part of the FILE name in the
> > >   > >database, since it would essentially be redundant with the
> >info for
> > >   > >each of the individual patches.  You'd need to keep that info
> >in
> > >   the
> > >   > >actual name of the file, though.
> > >   > >
> > >   > >BTW, this discussion is getting a bit fragged (multiple
> > >   > >threads/emails).  Once this project gets underway, it might be
> > >   easier
> > >   > >to follow if we make a single project specific thread in the
> > >   EX5Tech
> > >   > >forums.  Of course, that's only if everyone's agreeable.  I
> >don't
> > >   > >want to risk losing participants if some of them dislike
> >forums.
> > >   And
> > >   > >again, if we run out of space in the Yahoo group, or have any
> >other
> > >   > >problems with people uploading files, I can get them via email
> >and
> > >   > >host them at ex5tech.com.
> > >   > >
> > >   > >
> > >   > >Ski
> > >   > >www.ex5tech.com
> > >   > >EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> > >   > >http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> > >   > >
> > >   > >
> >
> >
>
>
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Ravi, I agree with, or am willing to compromise, on everything you 
said in your past two messages.  
The only thing I REALLY don't like is the Waldorf 
example "location.name.initials.category", which I feel is 
backwards.  You really need the bigger groupings/categories first, 
and the smallest details last, like we've already talked about.  
Otherwise, the sort order of the files on your disk is nearly 
worthless.  I think they'd be much better off with 
either "category.initials.patchname.location" (essentially what we've 
talked about doing) or "initials.category.patchname.location" (if you 
thought that the author was the most important thing in 
grouping/sorting the files).

Asking Dave about the temp/compare feature is the best plan.  Can't 
make the right decision without the necessary info.

If the temp/compare feature is a "no go", or very "iffy" then we keep 
the location parm.  Otherwise, we can lose it.

Regarding the rest of your comments...

1) Patch/Bank Indicator - I think we may end up with more banks than 
you imagine, but I agree that there will almost certainly remain a 
much larger number of patch files.  I still think it's worth being 
consistent, and keeping both a patch and bank indicator of some sort 
at the very front, but I'm willing to compromise.  Like I said in my 
last message, why don't we drop both the patch and the bank 
indicator, since you WILL be able tell what the file is by the 
Location parm.

2) Short Abbreviations - Honestly, I'm glad to hear you don't like 
them.  I prefer full names, or longer (standard) abbreviations of the 
same length.  I mistakenly assumed you wanted "shorter" when you 
said "streamlined", so I was trying to compromise!  :)

3) Abbreviations Suggestions - What do you think about a three letter 
abbreviation for the categories?  I've thought about most of them, 
and I think three letters might be clear enough.  If not, we could 
bump them all up to four letters.  IF we were to keep patch and bank 
designations, I think that "pch" and "bnk" would work OK, but again, 
I'm willing to drop them both.

4) Variable Length Category Names - I appreciate your point about not 
being "ramrod stiff" on the length of the category names.  However, 
I've been involved in way too many IT projects in which we had tons 
of inconsistent data to scrub, and it was SO not fun.  It really 
wastes a lot of hours.  IF we end up with LOTS of files, and some 
files use "piano", some use "Pf", some use "PNO", and some 
use "PIAN", etc... the purpose of having the categories in the first 
place is all but defeated.  Someone looking for all the Piano patches 
has to look all over, rather than finding them ALL sorted together in 
one nice neat spot on their file list.  I guess we could let people 
submit things in any fashion they want, but I'd want the "Official 
Patch Archives" to be renamed to an exact standard that we get a 
consensus on.  Again, we're dealing with that mess right now on the 
EX5 - many patch authors have used the Categories very haphazardly, 
or haven't used them at all.  This has made it quite tough to put 
together a useful database of all patches organized by category.

5) Suggested Category Names beta 2 - Following is the original two 
letter abbreviated list, along with sets done with three  and four 
letters.  Are they all clear with three letters, or should we go to 
four?  Looking at them, I think three is good.  In some cases, I 
think the three letter abbreviations are actually more clear than the 
fours.

Pf - Pno - Pian - Piano (used for piano, electric piano, clavinet, 
harpsichord, etc.)
Cp - CrP - PrcC - Chromatic Percussion (tuned percussion like agogos 
and timpani)
Or - Org - Orgn - Organ
Gt - Gtr - Guit - Guitar
Ba - Bas - Bass - Bass
St - Str - Strg - Strings/Orchestral
En - Ens - Ensb - Ensemble (combos like strings/brass, etc.)
Br - Brs - Bras - Brass (like trumpet, t-bone)
Rd - Red - Reed - Reed (like sax, clarinet)
Pi - Pip - Pipe - Pipe (like flute)
Ld - LdS - Lead - Lead Synth
Pd - Pad - Padd - Synth Pad
Fx - EFX - FXFX - Synth Sound Effects
Et - Eth - Ethn - Ethnic
Pc - Prc - Perc - Percussive
Se - SEF - SEFX - Sound Effects (PROPOSE WE DELETE)
Dr - Drm - Drum - Drums
Sc - Cmp - Comp - Synth Comping
Vo - voc - Vocl - Vocal
Co - Cbo - Comb - Combination
Wv - Wav - Wave - Material Wave (PROPOSE WE DELETE)
Sq - Seq - Seqn - Sequence

I think we should eliminate "Sound Effects", since it overlaps 
somewhat with "Synth Sound Effects", and the Evolver is not going to 
be particularly capable of sample realistic "Sound Effects" like door 
slams, gunshots, etc.  We should also eliminate "Material Wave", 
which has no meaning for a PATCH, anyway.  We might consider 
combining Brass, Reed, and Pipe into "Horn";  again, it's not like 
the Evolver is a sample playback synth.  I'd further recommend that 
we don't break Piano into "Piano" and "Electric Piano".  There are SO 
many "in between" piano sounds that it's sometimes hard to judge.  
Plus, once again, the Evolver isn't a sample playback machine.  We 
*might* also consider dropping the "Synth Comping" category, since I 
think that "comping" pretty much means using chords to most people, 
and the Evolver is monophonic.


Ski
www.ex5tech.com
EX5Tech Evolver forum:
http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23


--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Sharma" <noision1@h...> 
wrote:
> And to make matter's worse, I was looking over at the Waldorfians 
to see 
> what they were doing, and I see that they do include bank midifiles 
as well 
> as a zip of the individual files in the format of 
> location.name.initials.category.
> 
> I see some merit in having patch locations first. Especially if you 
want to 
> create a bank, etc, etc, but on the other hand, when people are 
merely 
> saving single patches they won't necessarily be caring about 
filling up each 
> slot and vice versa.
> 
> There are so many competing theories and needs . . . aakk.
> 
> You know what? I am going to drop Dave a line and ask him whether 
the 
> temp/compare patch feature request will actually happen. If it 
will, it will 
> simplify our lives so much since all single patches will not need a 
location 
> to be listed.
> 
> What does anyone think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "Ravi Sharma" <noision1@h...>
> >Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> >To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Evolver] Re: Patch/Bank File Nomenclature
> >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 20:05:03 -0500
> >
> >I hear you when you say that without patch *and* bank indications 
then the
> >alphebetizing will lay the banks after the  a patches. But really, 
how many
> >bank files are there going to be as opposed to patch files.
> >
> >I can compromise if you feel a strong need to indicate patch, but 
given 
> >that
> >the vast majority of patch files will be single files, it seems 
like a lot
> >of "patch" nomenclature when such is the norm, not the exception 
like a
> >bank file.
> >
> >I agree with the idea to have 3 digits follwing the bank letter. 
That makes
> >sense totally
> >
> >I can't get behind the idea of p and b for patch and bank, because 
while
> >perhaps more streamlined, streamlining should not sacrifice easy
> >comprehension. For a newcomer, what is p and b supposed to mean? 
Can't say
> >that the term bank is too confusion. For the same reason I don't 
like two
> >letter abreivations, because why should a creator or a user have 
to refer 
> >to
> >some list to get it right or figure out what it is. Your list is a 
good
> >start though, although I think we should expand it to three or 
even four
> >letters where necessary. Like the patch name, I think we should do 
two
> >things in regard to category naming. First we should not ask for a 
set
> >amount of letters. i.e. people should be able to use bass and lead 
and org
> >if they want. But we should simulaneously like you have started to 
do, set
> >forth a "suggested" list of terms for category definition.
> >
> >Ravi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "ski_ex5tech <ex5tech@e...>" <ex5tech@e...>
> > >Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch/Bank File Nomenclature
> > >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:53:17 -0000
> > >
> > >Well, if you really want to streamline... technically, you don't 
need
> > >the word "bank" in front of the bank files,
> > >either.  "organ.RIS_hamncheese.A005.mid" would be recognizable 
as a
> > >patch file because of the "A005" location,
> > >whereas "RIS_electronica.C.syx" and "SKI_trancevested.ALL.mid" 
would
> > >be recognized as bank files because of the "C" and the "ALL" 
location
> > >designations.
> > >
> > >I appreciate and agree with the need to streamline, but I still 
think
> > >there's merit to putting *something* at the very beginning of the
> > >filename to indicate whether it's a single patch, or a bank file 
(or
> > >maybe someday a waveform file).  It would sure make things 
easier to
> > >sort.  If you only label the bank files, then your list of files
> > >starts with some patch files that begin with "a" and some "b"s, 
goes
> > >through all the bank files, then finishes with all the rest of 
the
> > >patch files.
> > >
> > >How do you feel about a single letter to designate patch vs. 
bank as
> > >a prefix in the filename?  Something like:
> > >
> > >
> > >"p.organ.RIS_hamncheese.A005.mid" and "b.RIS_electronica.C.syx"
> > >
> > >
> > >BTW, we might consider the practice of always using three digit
> > >numbers in the patch location.  Given that they'll be a text 
string
> > >with the bank letter in front of them, sticking with three digits
> > >will make it a lot easier to sort in a database!
> > >
> > >
> > >Another way to streamline would be to use two character category
> > >abbreviations.  Following is what is used in the EX5 (just as a
> > >starting point for conversation):
> > >
> > >Pf - Piano (used for piano, electric piano, clavinet, 
harpsichord,
> > >etc.)
> > >Cp - Chromatic Percussion (tuned percussion like agogos and 
timpani)
> > >Or - Organ
> > >Gt - Guitar
> > >Ba - Bass
> > >St - Strings/Orchestral
> > >En - Ensemble (combos like strings/brass, etc.)
> > >Br - Brass (like trumpet, t-bone)
> > >Rd - Reed (like sax, clarinet)
> > >Pi - Pipe (like flute)
> > >Ld - Lead Synth
> > >Pd - Synth Pad
> > >Fx - Synth Sound Effects
> > >Et - Ethnic
> > >Pc - Percussive
> > >Se - Sound Effects
> > >Dr - Drums
> > >Sc - Synth Comping
> > >Vo - Vocal
> > >Co - Combination
> > >Wv - Material Wave (read that "single cycle waveforms")
> > >Sq - Sequence
> > >
> > >While not perfect, this list isn't a bad starting point, though 
among
> > >other things, the "Wv" category obviously has no meaning for 
patches
> > >(this same list of categories is used to classify samples).
> > >
> > >
> > >Yet another way to streamline/shorten:  The patch/bank name 
portion
> > >of the filename could be limited to a certain number of 
characters,
> > >like 12 or 15 or whatever.
> > >
> > >
> > >Ski
> > >www.ex5tech.com
> > >EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> > >http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Ivan Sharma"
> > ><noision1@h...> wrote:
> > > > Good. I think that "patch" is redundant though. I am trying to
> > >streamline everything. If it doesn't have a special "bank" 
("wave"?)
> > >prefix, then it is a patch.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >   From: Ski <ex5tech@e...>
> > > >   To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > > >   Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:36 AM
> > > >   Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch Contest / User Forum Soundset
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   I agree with your statements below.
> > > >
> > > >   Location IS needed for a bank file, since a bank file can be
> > >either a
> > > >   single bank, or all three banks.  And yes, I agree that
> > >the "sound
> > > >   category" really isn't needed for banks.  If we used it, 
99% of
> > >them
> > > >   would be "Misc".  I like your idea to actually put the
> > >text "bank" at
> > > >   the BEGINNING of the filename (rather than denoting it in 
the end
> > > >   where I'd put it);  that keeps bank files sorted together 
in a
> > >long
> > > >   file list.  We're going to put the text "patch" in front of 
all
> > >the
> > > >   single patch files, too?  Actually, if we get the sample 
import
> > >thing
> > > >   worked out, it might be a real good idea to include the
> > >text "patch"
> > > >   in front of a single patch file.  Who knows, we might
> > >have "sample"
> > > >   files too someday!
> > > >
> > > >   Author initials for single patch files is an excellent idea.
> > >Maybe
> > > >   it could be optional for bank files, too, for those banks 
that
> > >are
> > > >   done entirely by one author;  I don't know... there'd be a 
bit of
> > > >   redundancy with the documentation's list of patches.  I also
> > >think
> > > >   your UNDERSCORE, rather than another PERIOD to separate 
author
> > >from
> > > >   patch/bank name was insightful.  Given that author can be
> > >optional,
> > > >   the underscore allows for consistent parsing of the entire
> > >filename,
> > > >   because they'd all have the same number of periods in them 
(i.e.
> > >you
> > > >   could easily programmatically put everything into a real 
database
> > >at
> > > >   some point).
> > > >
> > > >   OK, so here's the next round of examples:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   Single Patches (same as last time, but with "patch" in 
front)
> > > >   --------------
> > > >   "patch.bass.RIS_moog1.B45.mid"
> > > >   "patch.lead.SKI_dxsqueal.A13.syx"
> > > >
> > > >   Banks
> > > >   -----
> > > >   "bank.RIS_electronica.B.syx" - (a one bank file that loads 
to
> > >bank B)
> > > >   "bank.SKI_trancevested.ALL.mid" - (a three bank file)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   Perhaps the words "patch" and "bank" could be abbreviated
> > >to "pch"
> > > >   and "bnk".
> > > >
> > > >   And yes... if we get the new feature implemented that let's 
you
> > >load
> > > >   a patch into any desired location, we can drop the location 
from
> > >the
> > > >   file name.
> > > >
> > > >   BTW - What do you know about me and "DX squeals"?  Who have 
you
> > >been
> > > >   talking to?!  I have way too much FM gear...  You didn't 
get any
> > >of
> > > >   my DX patch banks back in the early/mid 80's, did you?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   Ski
> > > >   www.ex5tech.com
> > > >   EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> > > >   http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?
ubb=forum&f=23
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Sharma" 
<noision1@h...>
> > > >   wrote:
> > > >   > I wasn't thinking in terms of strict databases, but that
> > >certainly
> > > >   can be
> > > >   > done later with ease once enought actual patches (and then
> > >later
> > > >   banks) are
> > > >   > created. First, if we stick to collecting individual 
files we
> > >can
> > > >   simply
> > > >   > have a list or folder containing files file name that 
includes
> > >the
> > > >   author's
> > > >   > initials (optional) (waldorf style) but stated first 
rather
> > >than
> > > >   after (for
> > > >   > sorting ease) hence:
> > > >   >
> > > >   > "category.initials_sound-name.location.suffix"
> > > >   >
> > > >   > e.g. "bass.RIS_moog1.B45.mid" 
or "lead.SKI_dxsqueal.A13.syx"
> > > >   >
> > > >   > After we have enough single patches to make up banks, then
> > >anyone
> > > >   can simply
> > > >   > construct banks adhering (hopefully) to the following 
naming
> > >format:
> > > >   >
> > > >   > "bank.name-of-bank.suffix" (is location of bank required? 
If so
> > > >   then
> > > >   > bank.name-of-bank.location.suffix")
> > > >   >
> > > >   > I don't believe a category is necessary for banks since 
the
> > >name
> > > >   can be
> > > >   > descriptive itself.
> > > >   >
> > > >   > Once there are bank files, they should be accompanied by a
> > >simple
> > > >   readme.txt
> > > >   > file that lists the included patches. Indeed a proper 
zipped
> > >bank
> > > >   package
> > > >   > should have the bank file, the readme.txt file and all the
> > > >   individual files
> > > >   > zipped up and all represented in both .mid and .syx 
format.
> > > >   >
> > > >   > Databases for the purpose listing these things can be 
made by
> > > >   individuals
> > > >   > such as you me or anyone whenever. The only thing I see
> > >technically
> > > >   missing
> > > >   > from the naming spec is a create date, however i am 
unsure how
> > > >   important
> > > >   > such is. Technically the original file uploaded should 
have a
> > >date
> > > >   stamp.
> > > >   >
> > > >   > I think we are making progress towards a standard naming 
scheme
> > > >   which will
> > > >   > be helpful to maintain maximum user information and 
sortability.
> > > >   >
> > > >   > Of course, if Dave implements the highly desired 
compare/temp
> > >patch
> > > >   which
> > > >   > will load any new single file into the temp patch 
location,
> > >then we
> > > >   can do
> > > >   > away with the location field completely (except perhaps 
for
> > >bank
> > > >   files if
> > > >   > necessary at all). Technically all the fields except name 
and
> > > >   suffix become
> > > >   > optional (although desired). Currently we really *need* 
the
> > > >   location if
> > > >   > anyone is know where the patch will be loaded.
> > > >   >
> > > >   > Ravi
> > > >   >
> > > >   >
> > > >   > >From: "Ski <ex5tech@e...>" <ex5tech@e...>
> > > >   > >Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > > >   > >To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > > >   > >Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch Contest / User Forum 
Soundset
> > > >   > >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 05:46:35 -0000
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >Establishing a good set of sound categories, and a 
standard
> > > >   > >nomenclature for the filenames IS still quite 
important.  It
> > >will
> > > >   be
> > > >   > >a HUGE asset as the list of user files grows.  It will 
also
> > >make
> > > >   > >keeping such a database doable.  We have tons of EX5 
format
> > >files.
> > > >   > >The EX5 has categories built into the file names, 
however, some
> > > >   > >people don't use them, or don't use them well.  As a 
result,
> > >it's a
> > > >   > >lot more difficult prospect for us to create a *useful*
> > >database of
> > > >   > >EX5 patches (or "Voices", as Yamaha calls them).  We're
> > >working on
> > > >   > >it, though.
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >I thought of one other little problem regarding Evolver 
FILE
> > > >   > >nomenclature with respect to the database you'd like to 
make,
> > >Ravi.
> > > >   > >Given that SOME files will be BANK files, we'll need to 
be
> > >sure
> > > >   that
> > > >   > >all BANK files come with a complete patch list, too.  
Patch
> > >names
> > > >   on
> > > >   > >the patch list would need to use the same format 
nomenclature
> > >as
> > > >   the
> > > >   > >single patch file names.  Your database would then need a
> > >minimum
> > > >   of
> > > >   > >four fields:
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >1) The three part patch name 
(category.sound_name.location)
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >2) The three part file name in which the patch exists
> > > >   > >(category.collection_name.location)
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >3) The patch author
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >4) Date authored
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >Ideally, you'd want to break items 1 and 2 into separate
> > >component
> > > >   > >fields, giving you a total of 8 fields.  Actually I 
guess you
> > > >   *could*
> > > >   > >drop the "category" and "location" part of the FILE name 
in the
> > > >   > >database, since it would essentially be redundant with 
the
> > >info for
> > > >   > >each of the individual patches.  You'd need to keep that 
info
> > >in
> > > >   the
> > > >   > >actual name of the file, though.
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >BTW, this discussion is getting a bit fragged (multiple
> > > >   > >threads/emails).  Once this project gets underway, it 
might be
> > > >   easier
> > > >   > >to follow if we make a single project specific thread in 
the
> > > >   EX5Tech
> > > >   > >forums.  Of course, that's only if everyone's 
agreeable.  I
> > >don't
> > > >   > >want to risk losing participants if some of them dislike
> > >forums.
> > > >   And
> > > >   > >again, if we run out of space in the Yahoo group, or 
have any
> > >other
> > > >   > >problems with people uploading files, I can get them via 
email
> > >and
> > > >   > >host them at ex5tech.com.
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >Ski
> > > >   > >www.ex5tech.com
> > > >   > >EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> > > >   > >http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?
ubb=forum&f=23

> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
> >Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
> >
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

That's great about the rhythmic patch files!

And you are absolutely correct about the utility of asking people to simply 
share patches out of location 128 (a, b or c? or does it matter?). Clearly a 
new o.s. that loads automatically into a temp space will be greatly 
appreciated.

I also hear what you are saying regarding file size. The simpler the better, 
less rules is better too. I had asked dave earlier on in beta about this 
issue regarding loading patches into a particular place, regardless of where 
they had come from, but it was too late.

We need a standalone utility actually to do all this for us. I wish I could 
write one, but I don't have those skills currently.

Ravi






>From: "mr julian" <jujulilianan@...>
>Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
>To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Evolver] Re: Patch/Bank File Nomenclature
>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:43:13 +1100
>
>
>As far as patch trading/sharing goes, I've got this to say:
>
>I thought that earlier on, Ravi was talking about only ever sending single
>patches with number 128. This makes sense to me, as if you have a directory
>of patches you want to audition one at a time, you can send them to the
>evolver one at a time, and they will only ever load into the one "scratch"
>location, where you can audition them. If you want to save a particular
>patch, then it's up to you to copy it to another spare location in your
>evolver. All this would require is that whoever dumps the patches to their
>computer, first copies them to location 128, then dumps them.
>
>I guarantee it will save a lot of people the pain of trashed work in the
>future if we do this one thing. And anyway - the idea of a scratch patch,
>with a user interface like the evolver's, is something that should really 
>be
>encouraged.
>
>As for .mid and .syx, the obvious choice seems, to me, to be .syx.... a 
>.mid
>file is simply a .syx message wrapped up in a standard MIDI file. We may as
>well just make it a sysex message, as any sequencer should be able to 
>import
>.syx files, for anyone who wants to use a sequencer. While the .syx format
>is great for bulk loader programs,  which may or may not choke on a .mid
>file. Plus, a .syx file saves (an albeit tiny) amount of storage and
>transmission space.
>
>As far as sorting single/bank/wave dumps, the easiest thing would be to 
>keep
>them in different directories. They're different things!
>The other thing to keep in mind, is that if they do get mixed up you can
>easily sort them out again by their actual file size.
>
>Oh well...
>
>One more thing. I've been spending a bit of time lately making up some
>rhythmic audio processing patches with the evolver. If I get them dumped to
>my PC this weekend, would I put them up in the "files" section of this
>group, or just on my own web space?
>
>
>
>julian
>
>
>--
>http://bleepin.com - "Got Bleep?"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Ravi Sharma" <noision1@...>
> >Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> >To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Evolver] Re: Patch/Bank File Nomenclature
> >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 20:05:03 -0500
> >
> >I hear you when you say that without patch *and* bank indications then 
>the
> >alphebetizing will lay the banks after the  a patches. But really, how 
>many
> >bank files are there going to be as opposed to patch files.
> >
> >I can compromise if you feel a strong need to indicate patch, but given
> >that
> >the vast majority of patch files will be single files, it seems like a 
>lot
> >of "patch" nomenclature when such is the norm, not the exception like a
> >bank file.
> >
> >I agree with the idea to have 3 digits follwing the bank letter. That 
>makes
> >sense totally
> >
> >I can't get behind the idea of p and b for patch and bank, because while
> >perhaps more streamlined, streamlining should not sacrifice easy
> >comprehension. For a newcomer, what is p and b supposed to mean? Can't 
>say
> >that the term bank is too confusion. For the same reason I don't like two
> >letter abreivations, because why should a creator or a user have to refer
> >to
> >some list to get it right or figure out what it is. Your list is a good
> >start though, although I think we should expand it to three or even four
> >letters where necessary. Like the patch name, I think we should do two
> >things in regard to category naming. First we should not ask for a set
> >amount of letters. i.e. people should be able to use bass and lead and 
>org
> >if they want. But we should simulaneously like you have started to do, 
>set
> >forth a "suggested" list of terms for category definition.
> >
> >Ravi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "ski_ex5tech <ex5tech@...>" <ex5tech@...>
> > >Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch/Bank File Nomenclature
> > >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:53:17 -0000
> > >
> > >Well, if you really want to streamline... technically, you don't need
> > >the word "bank" in front of the bank files,
> > >either.  "organ.RIS_hamncheese.A005.mid" would be recognizable as a
> > >patch file because of the "A005" location,
> > >whereas "RIS_electronica.C.syx" and "SKI_trancevested.ALL.mid" would
> > >be recognized as bank files because of the "C" and the "ALL" location
> > >designations.
> > >
> > >I appreciate and agree with the need to streamline, but I still think
> > >there's merit to putting *something* at the very beginning of the
> > >filename to indicate whether it's a single patch, or a bank file (or
> > >maybe someday a waveform file).  It would sure make things easier to
> > >sort.  If you only label the bank files, then your list of files
> > >starts with some patch files that begin with "a" and some "b"s, goes
> > >through all the bank files, then finishes with all the rest of the
> > >patch files.
> > >
> > >How do you feel about a single letter to designate patch vs. bank as
> > >a prefix in the filename?  Something like:
> > >
> > >
> > >"p.organ.RIS_hamncheese.A005.mid" and "b.RIS_electronica.C.syx"
> > >
> > >
> > >BTW, we might consider the practice of always using three digit
> > >numbers in the patch location.  Given that they'll be a text string
> > >with the bank letter in front of them, sticking with three digits
> > >will make it a lot easier to sort in a database!
> > >
> > >
> > >Another way to streamline would be to use two character category
> > >abbreviations.  Following is what is used in the EX5 (just as a
> > >starting point for conversation):
> > >
> > >Pf - Piano (used for piano, electric piano, clavinet, harpsichord,
> > >etc.)
> > >Cp - Chromatic Percussion (tuned percussion like agogos and timpani)
> > >Or - Organ
> > >Gt - Guitar
> > >Ba - Bass
> > >St - Strings/Orchestral
> > >En - Ensemble (combos like strings/brass, etc.)
> > >Br - Brass (like trumpet, t-bone)
> > >Rd - Reed (like sax, clarinet)
> > >Pi - Pipe (like flute)
> > >Ld - Lead Synth
> > >Pd - Synth Pad
> > >Fx - Synth Sound Effects
> > >Et - Ethnic
> > >Pc - Percussive
> > >Se - Sound Effects
> > >Dr - Drums
> > >Sc - Synth Comping
> > >Vo - Vocal
> > >Co - Combination
> > >Wv - Material Wave (read that "single cycle waveforms")
> > >Sq - Sequence
> > >
> > >While not perfect, this list isn't a bad starting point, though among
> > >other things, the "Wv" category obviously has no meaning for patches
> > >(this same list of categories is used to classify samples).
> > >
> > >
> > >Yet another way to streamline/shorten:  The patch/bank name portion
> > >of the filename could be limited to a certain number of characters,
> > >like 12 or 15 or whatever.
> > >
> > >
> > >Ski
> > >www.ex5tech.com
> > >EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> > >http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Ivan Sharma"
> > ><noision1@h...> wrote:
> > > > Good. I think that "patch" is redundant though. I am trying to
> > >streamline everything. If it doesn't have a special "bank" ("wave"?)
> > >prefix, then it is a patch.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > >   From: Ski <ex5tech@e...>
> > > >   To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > > >   Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:36 AM
> > > >   Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch Contest / User Forum Soundset
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   I agree with your statements below.
> > > >
> > > >   Location IS needed for a bank file, since a bank file can be
> > >either a
> > > >   single bank, or all three banks.  And yes, I agree that
> > >the "sound
> > > >   category" really isn't needed for banks.  If we used it, 99% of
> > >them
> > > >   would be "Misc".  I like your idea to actually put the
> > >text "bank" at
> > > >   the BEGINNING of the filename (rather than denoting it in the end
> > > >   where I'd put it);  that keeps bank files sorted together in a
> > >long
> > > >   file list.  We're going to put the text "patch" in front of all
> > >the
> > > >   single patch files, too?  Actually, if we get the sample import
> > >thing
> > > >   worked out, it might be a real good idea to include the
> > >text "patch"
> > > >   in front of a single patch file.  Who knows, we might
> > >have "sample"
> > > >   files too someday!
> > > >
> > > >   Author initials for single patch files is an excellent idea.
> > >Maybe
> > > >   it could be optional for bank files, too, for those banks that
> > >are
> > > >   done entirely by one author;  I don't know... there'd be a bit of
> > > >   redundancy with the documentation's list of patches.  I also
> > >think
> > > >   your UNDERSCORE, rather than another PERIOD to separate author
> > >from
> > > >   patch/bank name was insightful.  Given that author can be
> > >optional,
> > > >   the underscore allows for consistent parsing of the entire
> > >filename,
> > > >   because they'd all have the same number of periods in them (i.e.
> > >you
> > > >   could easily programmatically put everything into a real database
> > >at
> > > >   some point).
> > > >
> > > >   OK, so here's the next round of examples:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   Single Patches (same as last time, but with "patch" in front)
> > > >   --------------
> > > >   "patch.bass.RIS_moog1.B45.mid"
> > > >   "patch.lead.SKI_dxsqueal.A13.syx"
> > > >
> > > >   Banks
> > > >   -----
> > > >   "bank.RIS_electronica.B.syx" - (a one bank file that loads to
> > >bank B)
> > > >   "bank.SKI_trancevested.ALL.mid" - (a three bank file)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   Perhaps the words "patch" and "bank" could be abbreviated
> > >to "pch"
> > > >   and "bnk".
> > > >
> > > >   And yes... if we get the new feature implemented that let's you
> > >load
> > > >   a patch into any desired location, we can drop the location from
> > >the
> > > >   file name.
> > > >
> > > >   BTW - What do you know about me and "DX squeals"?  Who have you
> > >been
> > > >   talking to?!  I have way too much FM gear...  You didn't get any
> > >of
> > > >   my DX patch banks back in the early/mid 80's, did you?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   Ski
> > > >   www.ex5tech.com
> > > >   EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> > > >   http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Sharma" <noision1@h...>
> > > >   wrote:
> > > >   > I wasn't thinking in terms of strict databases, but that
> > >certainly
> > > >   can be
> > > >   > done later with ease once enought actual patches (and then
> > >later
> > > >   banks) are
> > > >   > created. First, if we stick to collecting individual files we
> > >can
> > > >   simply
> > > >   > have a list or folder containing files file name that includes
> > >the
> > > >   author's
> > > >   > initials (optional) (waldorf style) but stated first rather
> > >than
> > > >   after (for
> > > >   > sorting ease) hence:
> > > >   >
> > > >   > "category.initials_sound-name.location.suffix"
> > > >   >
> > > >   > e.g. "bass.RIS_moog1.B45.mid" or "lead.SKI_dxsqueal.A13.syx"
> > > >   >
> > > >   > After we have enough single patches to make up banks, then
> > >anyone
> > > >   can simply
> > > >   > construct banks adhering (hopefully) to the following naming
> > >format:
> > > >   >
> > > >   > "bank.name-of-bank.suffix" (is location of bank required? If so
> > > >   then
> > > >   > bank.name-of-bank.location.suffix")
> > > >   >
> > > >   > I don't believe a category is necessary for banks since the
> > >name
> > > >   can be
> > > >   > descriptive itself.
> > > >   >
> > > >   > Once there are bank files, they should be accompanied by a
> > >simple
> > > >   readme.txt
> > > >   > file that lists the included patches. Indeed a proper zipped
> > >bank
> > > >   package
> > > >   > should have the bank file, the readme.txt file and all the
> > > >   individual files
> > > >   > zipped up and all represented in both .mid and .syx format.
> > > >   >
> > > >   > Databases for the purpose listing these things can be made by
> > > >   individuals
> > > >   > such as you me or anyone whenever. The only thing I see
> > >technically
> > > >   missing
> > > >   > from the naming spec is a create date, however i am unsure how
> > > >   important
> > > >   > such is. Technically the original file uploaded should have a
> > >date
> > > >   stamp.
> > > >   >
> > > >   > I think we are making progress towards a standard naming scheme
> > > >   which will
> > > >   > be helpful to maintain maximum user information and sortability.
> > > >   >
> > > >   > Of course, if Dave implements the highly desired compare/temp
> > >patch
> > > >   which
> > > >   > will load any new single file into the temp patch location,
> > >then we
> > > >   can do
> > > >   > away with the location field completely (except perhaps for
> > >bank
> > > >   files if
> > > >   > necessary at all). Technically all the fields except name and
> > > >   suffix become
> > > >   > optional (although desired). Currently we really *need* the
> > > >   location if
> > > >   > anyone is know where the patch will be loaded.
> > > >   >
> > > >   > Ravi
> > > >   >
> > > >   >
> > > >   > >From: "Ski <ex5tech@e...>" <ex5tech@e...>
> > > >   > >Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > > >   > >To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > > >   > >Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch Contest / User Forum Soundset
> > > >   > >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 05:46:35 -0000
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >Establishing a good set of sound categories, and a standard
> > > >   > >nomenclature for the filenames IS still quite important.  It
> > >will
> > > >   be
> > > >   > >a HUGE asset as the list of user files grows.  It will also
> > >make
> > > >   > >keeping such a database doable.  We have tons of EX5 format
> > >files.
> > > >   > >The EX5 has categories built into the file names, however, some
> > > >   > >people don't use them, or don't use them well.  As a result,
> > >it's a
> > > >   > >lot more difficult prospect for us to create a *useful*
> > >database of
> > > >   > >EX5 patches (or "Voices", as Yamaha calls them).  We're
> > >working on
> > > >   > >it, though.
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >I thought of one other little problem regarding Evolver FILE
> > > >   > >nomenclature with respect to the database you'd like to make,
> > >Ravi.
> > > >   > >Given that SOME files will be BANK files, we'll need to be
> > >sure
> > > >   that
> > > >   > >all BANK files come with a complete patch list, too.  Patch
> > >names
> > > >   on
> > > >   > >the patch list would need to use the same format nomenclature
> > >as
> > > >   the
> > > >   > >single patch file names.  Your database would then need a
> > >minimum
> > > >   of
> > > >   > >four fields:
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >1) The three part patch name (category.sound_name.location)
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >2) The three part file name in which the patch exists
> > > >   > >(category.collection_name.location)
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >3) The patch author
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >4) Date authored
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >Ideally, you'd want to break items 1 and 2 into separate
> > >component
> > > >   > >fields, giving you a total of 8 fields.  Actually I guess you
> > > >   *could*
> > > >   > >drop the "category" and "location" part of the FILE name in the
> > > >   > >database, since it would essentially be redundant with the
> > >info for
> > > >   > >each of the individual patches.  You'd need to keep that info
> > >in
> > > >   the
> > > >   > >actual name of the file, though.
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >BTW, this discussion is getting a bit fragged (multiple
> > > >   > >threads/emails).  Once this project gets underway, it might be
> > > >   easier
> > > >   > >to follow if we make a single project specific thread in the
> > > >   EX5Tech
> > > >   > >forums.  Of course, that's only if everyone's agreeable.  I
> > >don't
> > > >   > >want to risk losing participants if some of them dislike
> > >forums.
> > > >   And
> > > >   > >again, if we run out of space in the Yahoo group, or have any
> > >other
> > > >   > >problems with people uploading files, I can get them via email
> > >and
> > > >   > >host them at ex5tech.com.
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >Ski
> > > >   > >www.ex5tech.com
> > > >   > >EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> > > >   > >http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> > > >   > >
> > > >   > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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