Dave Smith Instruments SYNTHESIZERS

Can someone convince me one way or the other? 

I'm looking for a cheap, ultra-portable, flexible, unique synth and
unique effects processor to go along with my Korg ES1 as a lo-fi
computer-free composition world.

nord micro modular and dave smith's evolver are at the top of my list
right now. Can someone tell me something that will tip me one way or
the other? 

I think right now I am leaning towards the evolver because nord sounds
have been explored by a lot of people already. And the evolver is more
constrained so it seem to have more of its own personality (if I want
to tear down constraints I'd just use a laptop, which I'm avoiding).
But the micro modular is slgihtly cheaper and increasingly difficult
to find.

Austin

On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 02:28:01AM -0000, austinvhuang wrote:
>    Can someone convince me one way or the other?

NOTE: I only have experience with the Evolver, not the NMM.

But I would prefer the Evolver to the NMM. mainly because it has its own
little world you can lost in; and this world exists by itself, you don't
need a computer to utilize it to its fullest. And also because the Evolver
can be tweaked more on-the-fly; the NMM has to have things assigned to
its knobs before you can do any hands-on tweaking.  In the Evolver, you
don't have to worry about deciding mid-gig that you'd like to change the 
LFO rate only to discover you hadn't routed that to a physical knob.  You
can make the decision and then after a button press (or two), you'll be
changing the parameter's value.

And to me, the Evolver seems like a much better deal - a ton of analog
components alongside classic digital waveforms with a great number of
modulation possibilities in a standalone box for $500 is a better deal
than a hunk of DSP and a software interface for $300.

that said, I'd love to play with a NMM. they're just too damn cute to
resist! :-) maybe they'll make a NMMG2?

Joe

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "austinvhuang" 
<austinvhuang@y...> wrote:
> Can someone convince me one way or the other? 
> 
> I'm looking for a cheap, ultra-portable, flexible, unique synth and
> unique effects processor to go along with my Korg ES1 as a lo-fi
> computer-free composition world.
I own both and love them both, but if I had to buy one today it would 
be the Evolver. You can't be computer-free and program the Micro 
Modular. Also I think that development for it is dead, while Dave 
Smith might still have more Evolver updates in store. I've actually 
used the Micro Modular more as an effects device than I have as a 
synth, so if effects were what I was looking for then I would 
probably go with the Micro Modular.

I gathered from the rather un-impressive Roger Linn guitar demos on
the evolver site that the evolver is probably poorer than a micromod
or adrenalinn as an effects unit. 

Still I have hope that the filters and amp modeler might sound nice on
a guitar, and maybe you can do some tremelo type effects with the LFO.

I'm not making money off music (don't plan to anytime soon). So a
couple hundred bucks is still a big investment. It's not that easy to
pick up both. I'm a poor graduate student.

Austin

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "trevor_nyc" <trevor_nyc@y...> wrote:

> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "austinvhuang" 
> <austinvhuang@y...> wrote:
> > Can someone convince me one way or the other? 
> > 
> > I'm looking for a cheap, ultra-portable, flexible, unique synth and
> > unique effects processor to go along with my Korg ES1 as a lo-fi
> > computer-free composition world.
> I own both and love them both, but if I had to buy one today it would 
> be the Evolver. You can't be computer-free and program the Micro 
> Modular. Also I think that development for it is dead, while Dave 
> Smith might still have more Evolver updates in store. I've actually 
> used the Micro Modular more as an effects device than I have as a 
> synth, so if effects were what I was looking for then I would 
> probably go with the Micro Modular.

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "austinvhuang" 
<austinvhuang@y...> wrote:
> I gathered from the rather un-impressive Roger Linn guitar demos on
> the evolver site that the evolver is probably poorer than a 
micromod
> or adrenalinn as an effects unit. 
> 
> Still I have hope that the filters and amp modeler might sound 
nice on
> a guitar, and maybe you can do some tremelo type effects with the 
LFO.
Are you confusing the Evolver with the Adrenalinn? 
http://www.rlinndesign.com/01products/adren2.html 

I don't think that the Evolver has an amp modeler. It has distortion 
and you can use the filters and get your tremolo with an LFO->VCA 
but no amps.

Er. Dunno where I imagined amp modeling. Must've been looking at
another signal flow chain. I wonder has anyone tried patching the
evolver's signal flow chain as a nord micromod patch? Of course you
can't get the same filters and analog oscillators, and delay lengths...

Still leaning to the evolver at this point though. Weak power as an
effects box aside...

Austin

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "trevor_nyc" <trevor_nyc@y...> wrote:

> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "austinvhuang" 
> <austinvhuang@y...> wrote:
> > I gathered from the rather un-impressive Roger Linn guitar demos on
> > the evolver site that the evolver is probably poorer than a 
> micromod
> > or adrenalinn as an effects unit. 
> > 
> > Still I have hope that the filters and amp modeler might sound 
> nice on
> > a guitar, and maybe you can do some tremelo type effects with the 
> LFO.
> Are you confusing the Evolver with the Adrenalinn? 
> http://www.rlinndesign.com/01products/adren2.html 
> 
> I don't think that the Evolver has an amp modeler. It has distortion 
> and you can use the filters and get your tremolo with an LFO->VCA 
> but no amps.

As someone else mentioned, the Nord requires a PC (or Mac) for editing. 
Problem is, the editor is not going to be updated any more, so your options 
will be to either dedicate an old  PC/Mac for the editor, or not upgrade 
your OS (Mac OSX).

(note: I own both so I'm not posting this as a negative, just an issue to 
be aware of)

Given your requirement to be computer-free, the Evolver sounds like the 
better solution.

At 07:28 PM 4/25/2004, you wrote:
>Can someone convince me one way or the other?
>
>I'm looking for a cheap, ultra-portable, flexible, unique synth and
>unique effects processor to go along with my Korg ES1 as a lo-fi
>computer-free composition world.
>
>nord micro modular and dave smith's evolver are at the top of my list
>right now. Can someone tell me something that will tip me one way or
>the other?
>
>I think right now I am leaning towards the evolver because nord sounds
>have been explored by a lot of people already. And the evolver is more
>constrained so it seem to have more of its own personality (if I want
>to tear down constraints I'd just use a laptop, which I'm avoiding).
>But the micro modular is slgihtly cheaper and increasingly difficult
>to find.
>
>Austin


------------------------------------------------------------
  Ken Luke                               ken_luke@...
  "Complexity is easy; Simplicity is hard."
    -- Edmund Keane
------------------------------------------------------------

Of course, you will probably have trouble finding one for $200 anyway, which
is what you offered me...

From: "austinvhuang" <austinvhuang@...>
Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:57:36 -0000
To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Evolver] Re: evolver vs. nord micro modular


Er. Dunno where I imagined amp modeling. Must've been looking at
another signal flow chain. I wonder has anyone tried patching the
evolver's signal flow chain as a nord micromod patch? Of course you
can't get the same filters and analog oscillators, and delay lengths...

Still leaning to the evolver at this point though. Weak power as an
effects box aside...

Austin

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "trevor_nyc" <trevor_nyc@y...> wrote:
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "austinvhuang"
> <austinvhuang@y...> wrote:
> > I gathered from the rather un-impressive Roger Linn guitar demos on
> > the evolver site that the evolver is probably poorer than a
> micromod
> > or adrenalinn as an effects unit.
> > 
> > Still I have hope that the filters and amp modeler might sound
> nice on
> > a guitar, and maybe you can do some tremelo type effects with the
> LFO.
> Are you confusing the Evolver with the Adrenalinn?
> http://www.rlinndesign.com/01products/adren2.html
> 
> I don't think that the Evolver has an amp modeler. It has distortion
> and you can use the filters and get your tremolo with an LFO->VCA
> but no amps.


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I own both. I'm really not sure what I'd do if I had to choose. I've 
used the Nord a lot and am very used to it and haven't begun to 
reach it's potential still. I'm just starting to really enjoy the Evolver 
and explor it a lot more. But I have to say, once I started using an 
editor for the Evolver it really opened things up for me in a big 
way. So, for me, a computer is ESSENTIAL for both the Nord and 
evolver.

steve




--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Ken Luke 
<ken_luke@m...> wrote:
> As someone else mentioned, the Nord requires a PC (or Mac) 
for editing. 
> Problem is, the editor is not going to be updated any more, so 
your options 
> will be to either dedicate an old  PC/Mac for the editor, or not 
upgrade 
> your OS (Mac OSX).
> 
> (note: I own both so I'm not posting this as a negative, just an 
issue to 
> be aware of)
> 
> Given your requirement to be computer-free, the Evolver 
sounds like the 
> better solution.
> 
> At 07:28 PM 4/25/2004, you wrote:
> >Can someone convince me one way or the other?
> >
> >I'm looking for a cheap, ultra-portable, flexible, unique synth 
and
> >unique effects processor to go along with my Korg ES1 as a 
lo-fi
> >computer-free composition world.
> >
> >nord micro modular and dave smith's evolver are at the top of 
my list
> >right now. Can someone tell me something that will tip me 
one way or
> >the other?
> >
> >I think right now I am leaning towards the evolver because 
nord sounds
> >have been explored by a lot of people already. And the evolver 
is more
> >constrained so it seem to have more of its own personality (if 
I want
> >to tear down constraints I'd just use a laptop, which I'm 
avoiding).
> >But the micro modular is slgihtly cheaper and increasingly 
difficult

> >to find.
> >
> >Austin
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>   Ken Luke                               ken_luke@m...
>   "Complexity is easy; Simplicity is hard."
>     -- Edmund Keane
> ------------------------------------------------------------

I agree, the editor made a big difference for me as well, I don't find the
matrix style programming that effective personally.  An interface similar to
the ms2000 is much better for me and considerably faster than a matrix style
editor or a computer editor.  Of course that would increase the cost
however.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: dhamaryder [mailto:dhamaryder@...]
> Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 9:40 PM
> To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Evolver] evolver vs. nord micro modular
>
>
> I own both. I'm really not sure what I'd do if I had to choose. I've
> used the Nord a lot and am very used to it and haven't begun to
> reach it's potential still. I'm just starting to really enjoy
> the Evolver
> and explor it a lot more. But I have to say, once I started using an
> editor for the Evolver it really opened things up for me in a big
> way. So, for me, a computer is ESSENTIAL for both the Nord and
> evolver.
>
> steve
>
>
>
>
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Ken Luke
> <ken_luke@m...> wrote:
> > As someone else mentioned, the Nord requires a PC (or Mac)
> for editing.
> > Problem is, the editor is not going to be updated any more, so
> your options
> > will be to either dedicate an old  PC/Mac for the editor, or not
> upgrade
> > your OS (Mac OSX).
> >
> > (note: I own both so I'm not posting this as a negative, just an
> issue to
> > be aware of)
> >
> > Given your requirement to be computer-free, the Evolver
> sounds like the
> > better solution.
> >
> > At 07:28 PM 4/25/2004, you wrote:
> > >Can someone convince me one way or the other?
> > >
> > >I'm looking for a cheap, ultra-portable, flexible, unique synth
> and
> > >unique effects processor to go along with my Korg ES1 as a
> lo-fi
> > >computer-free composition world.
> > >
> > >nord micro modular and dave smith's evolver are at the top of
> my list
> > >right now. Can someone tell me something that will tip me
> one way or
> > >the other?
> > >
> > >I think right now I am leaning towards the evolver because
> nord sounds
> > >have been explored by a lot of people already. And the evolver
> is more
> > >constrained so it seem to have more of its own personality (if
> I want
> > >to tear down constraints I'd just use a laptop, which I'm
> avoiding).
> > >But the micro modular is slgihtly cheaper and increasingly
> difficult
> > >to find.
> > >
> > >Austin
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >   Ken Luke                               ken_luke@m...
> >   "Complexity is easy; Simplicity is hard."
> >     -- Edmund Keane
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Apr 26, 2004, at 10:25 PM, Gene Schwartz wrote:

>  Of course, you will probably have trouble finding one for $200 
> anyway, which is what you offered me...

please try to keep the grumbly comments off-list.

thanks!
Joe

Hi,
also, i own a NM-Rack (expanded) and a evolver. I plan to get the
PolyEvolver too. The Editor for the NM running fine under WXP. No need
of an Editorupdate and there are thousends of patches on the net. I
like the Modular realy much and it sounds very good. 
But, evolver sounds better in my ears, more organic, there is more
life in evolver. Nord - Synth's are allways a bit cool...

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "dhamaryder" <dhamaryder@y...> wrote:
> I own both. I'm really not sure what I'd do if I had to choose. I've 
> used the Nord a lot and am very used to it and haven't begun to 
> reach it's potential still. I'm just starting to really enjoy the
Evolver 

> and explor it a lot more. But I have to say, once I started using an 
> editor for the Evolver it really opened things up for me in a big 
> way. So, for me, a computer is ESSENTIAL for both the Nord and 
> evolver.
> 
> steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Ken Luke 
> <ken_luke@m...> wrote:
> > As someone else mentioned, the Nord requires a PC (or Mac) 
> for editing. 
> > Problem is, the editor is not going to be updated any more, so 
> your options 
> > will be to either dedicate an old  PC/Mac for the editor, or not 
> upgrade 
> > your OS (Mac OSX).
> > 
> > (note: I own both so I'm not posting this as a negative, just an 
> issue to 
> > be aware of)
> > 
> > Given your requirement to be computer-free, the Evolver 
> sounds like the 
> > better solution.
> > 
> > At 07:28 PM 4/25/2004, you wrote:
> > >Can someone convince me one way or the other?
> > >
> > >I'm looking for a cheap, ultra-portable, flexible, unique synth 
> and
> > >unique effects processor to go along with my Korg ES1 as a 
> lo-fi
> > >computer-free composition world.
> > >
> > >nord micro modular and dave smith's evolver are at the top of 
> my list
> > >right now. Can someone tell me something that will tip me 
> one way or
> > >the other?
> > >
> > >I think right now I am leaning towards the evolver because 
> nord sounds
> > >have been explored by a lot of people already. And the evolver 
> is more
> > >constrained so it seem to have more of its own personality (if 
> I want
> > >to tear down constraints I'd just use a laptop, which I'm 
> avoiding).
> > >But the micro modular is slgihtly cheaper and increasingly 
> difficult
> > >to find.
> > >
> > >Austin
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >   Ken Luke                               ken_luke@m...
> >   "Complexity is easy; Simplicity is hard."
> >     -- Edmund Keane
> > ------------------------------------------------------------

an editor is essential for the evolver? i disagree. I like the matrix
 for programming the evolver a lot. Personaly i think there is no need
for a editor at all. The evolver is a pure hardware synth and the
beauty of it is to programm it wherever you are. All you need is the
evolver, a headphone and electricity.

   

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "dhamaryder" <dhamaryder@y...> wrote:
> I own both. I'm really not sure what I'd do if I had to choose. I've 
> used the Nord a lot and am very used to it and haven't begun to 
> reach it's potential still. I'm just starting to really enjoy the
Evolver 

> and explor it a lot more. But I have to say, once I started using an 
> editor for the Evolver it really opened things up for me in a big 
> way. So, for me, a computer is ESSENTIAL for both the Nord and 
> evolver.
> 
> steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Ken Luke 
> <ken_luke@m...> wrote:
> > As someone else mentioned, the Nord requires a PC (or Mac) 
> for editing. 
> > Problem is, the editor is not going to be updated any more, so 
> your options 
> > will be to either dedicate an old  PC/Mac for the editor, or not 
> upgrade 
> > your OS (Mac OSX).
> > 
> > (note: I own both so I'm not posting this as a negative, just an 
> issue to 
> > be aware of)
> > 
> > Given your requirement to be computer-free, the Evolver 
> sounds like the 
> > better solution.
> > 
> > At 07:28 PM 4/25/2004, you wrote:
> > >Can someone convince me one way or the other?
> > >
> > >I'm looking for a cheap, ultra-portable, flexible, unique synth 
> and
> > >unique effects processor to go along with my Korg ES1 as a 
> lo-fi
> > >computer-free composition world.
> > >
> > >nord micro modular and dave smith's evolver are at the top of 
> my list
> > >right now. Can someone tell me something that will tip me 
> one way or
> > >the other?
> > >
> > >I think right now I am leaning towards the evolver because 
> nord sounds
> > >have been explored by a lot of people already. And the evolver 
> is more
> > >constrained so it seem to have more of its own personality (if 
> I want
> > >to tear down constraints I'd just use a laptop, which I'm 
> avoiding).
> > >But the micro modular is slgihtly cheaper and increasingly 
> difficult
> > >to find.
> > >
> > >Austin
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >   Ken Luke                               ken_luke@m...
> >   "Complexity is easy; Simplicity is hard."
> >     -- Edmund Keane
> > ------------------------------------------------------------

On 27 avr. 2004, at 07:56, privat_joy wrote:

> Hi,
> also, i own a NM-Rack (expanded) and a evolver. I plan to get the
> PolyEvolver too. The Editor for the NM running fine under WXP. No need
> of an Editorupdate and there are thousends of patches on the net. I
> like the Modular realy much and it sounds very good.
> But, evolver sounds better in my ears, more organic, there is more
> life in evolver. Nord - Synth's are allways a bit cool...

I don't own Nord Modular, but sonically Evolver is more pleasing than 
the VA synths I own (AN1x, micro Q) to my ears, as well.  I feel like 
I'm playing "an instrument" rather than some machine when I play 
Evolver...

It was mentioned that evolver is weak as an effect box, but I think 
with 2 analogue filters, MIDI syncable LFOs, 4 sequencers, envelope 
follower, 3 delay lines, at this price, not being some virtual stuff, 
evolver is a great deal, IMHO.  I personally use evolver for processing 
external sound a lot.

That said, if I was looking for a synth in that price range, I'd 
probably wait and take a look at Alesis's Micron as well.  It is 
supposed to have Ion engine + phrase sequencer in a portable package.  
If it works as it is supposed to, it would be a good deal.


-Yutaka

Just to clarify, the point I was trying to make is that it's _possible_ to 
edit the Evolver w/o a PC. It's simply impossible to edit a Nord MM w/o a PC.

At 07:39 PM 4/26/2004, you wrote:
>I own both. I'm really not sure what I'd do if I had to choose. I've
>used the Nord a lot and am very used to it and haven't begun to
>reach it's potential still. I'm just starting to really enjoy the Evolver
>and explor it a lot more. But I have to say, once I started using an
>editor for the Evolver it really opened things up for me in a big
>way. So, for me, a computer is ESSENTIAL for both the Nord and
>evolver.
>
>steve


------------------------------------------------------------
  Ken Luke                               ken_luke@...
  "Complexity is easy; Simplicity is hard."
    -- Edmund Keane
------------------------------------------------------------

wasn't that a grumbly comment?

From: Joseph Melnyk <jmelnyk@...>
Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:52:10 -0400
To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Evolver] Re: evolver vs. nord micro modular


On Apr 26, 2004, at 10:25 PM, Gene Schwartz wrote:

>  Of course, you will probably have trouble finding one for $200
> anyway, which is what you offered me...

please try to keep the grumbly comments off-list.

thanks!
Joe


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Yeah I get the idea with the editing. Wish I could try out the evolver
at a store, but the distribution looks limited.

Thanks for the suggestions, all of this thread has been really helpful.

I think I'm going to settle on the evolver because it seems like most
of the nord modular stuff I can sortof reproduce on my laptop+asio card. 

Ultimately, even at a bargain 300$, the nm is still too much for a
musician who doesn't make money off music if I have another way of
getting similar sounds.

The evolver, sounds like it has a personality to it that is
one-of-a-kind. If I'm going to spend money on hardware, I want it to
be a unique instrument, not a swiss army knife toolkit (it's hard to
beat my laptop in that department). Now I've gotta save up 500 bux...
guess the ipod will have to wait.

Austin


--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, Ken Luke <ken_luke@m...> wrote:
> Just to clarify, the point I was trying to make is that it's
_possible_ to 
> edit the Evolver w/o a PC. It's simply impossible to edit a Nord MM
w/o a PC.
> 
> At 07:39 PM 4/26/2004, you wrote:
> >I own both. I'm really not sure what I'd do if I had to choose. I've
> >used the Nord a lot and am very used to it and haven't begun to
> >reach it's potential still. I'm just starting to really enjoy the
Evolver

> >and explor it a lot more. But I have to say, once I started using an
> >editor for the Evolver it really opened things up for me in a big
> >way. So, for me, a computer is ESSENTIAL for both the Nord and
> >evolver.
> >
> >steve
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>   Ken Luke                               ken_luke@m...
>   "Complexity is easy; Simplicity is hard."
>     -- Edmund Keane
> ------------------------------------------------------------

At 07:35 PM 04/28/2004, austin_v_huang wrote:

>Yeah I get the idea with the editing. Wish I could try out the evolver
>at a store, but the distribution looks limited. <snip>

I have not been following this thread until just now, so apologies if this 
was already discussed, but...

Where are you located?  Perhaps you are close to someone on this list who 
would let you stop by and try it out?  I make a point of offering hands on 
time for people interested in the gear I own (some of which is quite 
ancient and hard to come by, I used to be Office Manager for the US 
importer of EMS synths in the mid-70s).

Anyway, I am in the Bay area in CA, between SF and San Jose.  If you're 
nearby, drop me a note off list.  I have a Nord MM, an Evolver, and a 
PolyEvolver (whoo-hoo, just arrived here yesterday) and would be glad to 
offer time to try them out.

When I was first interested in synthesis in the early 1970s, several people 
I contacted (some famous, some not) replied to my letters and allowed me to 
visit their studios and try out their early analog modular devices.  One of 
them told me to return the favor to others in the future.

I would not try to advise between an MM and an Evolver, they are both 
unique and wonderful instruments and only you would know which one would 
let you sing your songs.

Take care,
Jim W.
San Mateo, CA

I'm in the Portland, Oregon area if anyone's interested.

At 10:08 PM 4/28/2004, you wrote:

>I have not been following this thread until just now, so apologies if this
>was already discussed, but...
>
>Where are you located?  Perhaps you are close to someone on this list who
>would let you stop by and try it out?  I make a point of offering hands on
>time for people interested in the gear I own (some of which is quite
>ancient and hard to come by, I used to be Office Manager for the US
>importer of EMS synths in the mid-70s).
>
>Anyway, I am in the Bay area in CA, between SF and San Jose.  If you're
>nearby, drop me a note off list.  I have a Nord MM, an Evolver, and a
>PolyEvolver (whoo-hoo, just arrived here yesterday) and would be glad to
>offer time to try them out.
>
>When I was first interested in synthesis in the early 1970s, several people
>I contacted (some famous, some not) replied to my letters and allowed me to
>visit their studios and try out their early analog modular devices.  One of
>them told me to return the favor to others in the future.
>
>I would not try to advise between an MM and an Evolver, they are both
>unique and wonderful instruments and only you would know which one would
>let you sing your songs.
>
>Take care,
>Jim W.
>San Mateo, CA


------------------------------------------------------------
  Ken Luke                               ken_luke@...
  "Complexity is easy; Simplicity is hard."
    -- Edmund Keane
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My Poly Evolver Serial #12  arrived today and it sounds Great!!! I'm still
trying to figure out why but to my ears it sounds much better than my Mono
Evolver. Anyone else get theirs yet ??

Don