Dave Smith Instruments SYNTHESIZERS

Hello!

I'm writing this because after reading a lot of reviews and forums, I needed the real 
experts opinion! I need some information about which DSI synth to buy. ;)

But first you should know two things: I'm no keyboardist and I'm pretty newbie regarding 
synthesizers. My first synth was the Moog LP, and after some months with it I tweaked it 
the most I could, and came to the conclusion that I wasn't looking such kind of synth. I 
don't really need a lead synth. And I need more sounding possibilities.

I'm looking for a synthesizer that's the most tweakable possible, and that is a good option 
to create ambiences, allied to a analog sound that can be organic and full of soul, like my 
favourite synthesizer ever, the Prophet 5. Like I said, I'm not a keyboardist, I used to be a 
bassist, and now I'm just a synth addicted with an urge to create new sounds. Let just say 
that I'm looking for something with sounds between Ryuichi Sakamoto, YMO, Jean Michel 
Jarre, Squarepusher and Alva Noto.Yeah, a bunch of totally different things!!!!

Do you think the Evolver keyboard is a good choice? What about the Prophet 8? I really like 
this last one, but the keyboard is just too big, and I need something that occupies little 
space, yet that is fast/fun enough for me to tweak, so I think the Evolver desktop is out of 
the run :(


I'm sorry for this somewhat long e-mail, but ever since I sold my Moog and got to know 
synths better, I can't wait to get my very own DSI synthesizer!


Thank you very much!


Cheers!

If you re new to synthesis, the mono evolver desktop might be confusing. and if the prohpet 08 is too big, and you say youre not a keyboard player, wait a

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "stuzender" <stuzender@...> wrote:
>
> Hello!
> 
> I'm writing this because after reading a lot of reviews and forums,
I needed the real 
> experts opinion! I need some information about which DSI synth to
buy. ;)
> 
> But first you should know two things: I'm no keyboardist and I'm
pretty newbie regarding 
> synthesizers. My first synth was the Moog LP, and after some months
with it I tweaked it 
> the most I could, and came to the conclusion that I wasn't looking
such kind of synth. I 
> don't really need a lead synth. And I need more sounding possibilities.
> 
> I'm looking for a synthesizer that's the most tweakable possible,
and that is a good option 
> to create ambiences, allied to a analog sound that can be organic
and full of soul, like my 
> favourite synthesizer ever, the Prophet 5. Like I said, I'm not a
keyboardist, I used to be a 
> bassist, and now I'm just a synth addicted with an urge to create
new sounds. Let just say 
> that I'm looking for something with sounds between Ryuichi Sakamoto,
YMO, Jean Michel 
> Jarre, Squarepusher and Alva Noto.Yeah, a bunch of totally different
things!!!!
> 
> Do you think the Evolver keyboard is a good choice? What about the
Prophet 8? I really like 
> this last one, but the keyboard is just too big, and I need
something that occupies little 
> space, yet that is fast/fun enough for me to tweak, so I think the
Evolver desktop is out of 
> the run :(
> 
> 
> I'm sorry for this somewhat long e-mail, but ever since I sold my
Moog and got to know 
> synths better, I can't wait to get my very own DSI synthesizer!
> 
> 
> Thank you very much!
> 
> 
> Cheers!
>
Hey,

     I've been intereted with a great deal of expiremental groups that
incorporate new types of sounds, similar to the groups and artists you
stated earlier, and other groups like Coh, Panasonic, Merzbow, Coil,
Jan Jelinek and stuff on labels like raster noton and 12k.  
     What I really like about my desktop evolver is that it is
phenomenal for sound generation.  A lot of other expensive gear have a
hard time coming with both low and clear tones that you can create
with the dsi. Don't get me wrong, I love alot of the old school fuzzy
sounds of synths of the 70's and early 80's, and this machine does
those tones justice. But we have enough Boards of Canada clones out there 
     I'm a fan of musical innovation.  This is where this machine
shines.  I get alot of new sounds focusing on the later two digital
oscillators with the use of both noise and the ring modulator.
     The only real issues behind the dsi, which are in my mind time
based, is getting used to 1.) The interface and 2.)The software. 
Obviously with everything electronic there is a learning curve and
unfortunately I've found many people don't bother to take the time to
figure this beast out. I hope this helps you.


-Brian

what do you mean by Boards of Canada clones ? i think Boards of Canada back in the mid to late 90 s were totally innovative - and this spans beyond just the

Don't get me wrong, I think BOC was extremely innovative, and I pretty
much wore out "music has the right to children" cd when it came out. 
My criticism wasn't towards them, it was towards those who don't try
to innovate, rather emulate.  That cd is coming up on 10 years old,
and even today I hear artists not become influenced by them but rather
try to reproduce their music.
This was stated to go along with my argument that the dsi is good for
taking music into different directions.


  --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Brooks Mosher"
<brooksmosher@...> wrote:
>
> what do you mean by "Boards of Canada clones"?
> 
> i think Boards of Canada back in the mid to late 90's were totally
> innovative - and this spans beyond just the use of synthesizers and
into the
> realm of music production and engineering as a whole.
> 
> 
> anyways, a friend of mine loves his Evolver.  but really, you should get
> your hands on it and just use it for a while.  that's the only way
to decide
> if it's what your looking for.  everyone else has a different idea
of what's
> "innovative" or what "sounds good" but at the end of the day what's
> important, is what YOU feel.  not someone else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 1, 2008 3:27 PM, cmbubbs <introclusion@...> wrote:
> 
> >   --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com <DSI_Evolver%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "stuzender" <stuzender@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello!
> > >
> > > I'm writing this because after reading a lot of reviews and forums,
> > I needed the real
> > > experts opinion! I need some information about which DSI synth to
> > buy. ;)
> > >
> > > But first you should know two things: I'm no keyboardist and I'm
> > pretty newbie regarding
> > > synthesizers. My first synth was the Moog LP, and after some months
> > with it I tweaked it
> > > the most I could, and came to the conclusion that I wasn't looking
> > such kind of synth. I
> > > don't really need a lead synth. And I need more sounding
possibilities.
> > >
> > > I'm looking for a synthesizer that's the most tweakable possible,
> > and that is a good option
> > > to create ambiences, allied to a analog sound that can be organic
> > and full of soul, like my
> > > favourite synthesizer ever, the Prophet 5. Like I said, I'm not a
> > keyboardist, I used to be a
> > > bassist, and now I'm just a synth addicted with an urge to create
> > new sounds. Let just say
> > > that I'm looking for something with sounds between Ryuichi Sakamoto,
> > YMO, Jean Michel
> > > Jarre, Squarepusher and Alva Noto.Yeah, a bunch of totally different
> > things!!!!
> > >
> > > Do you think the Evolver keyboard is a good choice? What about the
> > Prophet 8? I really like
> > > this last one, but the keyboard is just too big, and I need
> > something that occupies little
> > > space, yet that is fast/fun enough for me to tweak, so I think the
> > Evolver desktop is out of
> > > the run :(
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm sorry for this somewhat long e-mail, but ever since I sold my
> > Moog and got to know
> > > synths better, I can't wait to get my very own DSI synthesizer!
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you very much!
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers!
> > >
> > Hey,
> >
> > I've been intereted with a great deal of expiremental groups that
> > incorporate new types of sounds, similar to the groups and artists you
> > stated earlier, and other groups like Coh, Panasonic, Merzbow, Coil,
> > Jan Jelinek and stuff on labels like raster noton and 12k.
> > What I really like about my desktop evolver is that it is
> > phenomenal for sound generation. A lot of other expensive gear have a
> > hard time coming with both low and clear tones that you can create
> > with the dsi. Don't get me wrong, I love alot of the old school fuzzy
> > sounds of synths of the 70's and early 80's, and this machine does
> > those tones justice. But we have enough Boards of Canada clones
out there

> > I'm a fan of musical innovation. This is where this machine
> > shines. I get alot of new sounds focusing on the later two digital
> > oscillators with the use of both noise and the ring modulator.
> > The only real issues behind the dsi, which are in my mind time
> > based, is getting used to 1.) The interface and 2.)The software.
> > Obviously with everything electronic there is a learning curve and
> > unfortunately I've found many people don't bother to take the time to
> > figure this beast out. I hope this helps you.
> >
> > -Brian
> >
> >  
> >
>

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "stuzender" <stuzender@...> wrote:
>
> Hello!
> 
> I'm writing this because after reading a lot of reviews and forums, 
I needed the real 
> experts opinion! I need some information about which DSI synth to 
buy. ;)
> 
> But first you should know two things: I'm no keyboardist and I'm 
pretty newbie regarding 
> synthesizers. My first synth was the Moog LP, and after some months 
with it I tweaked it 
> the most I could, and came to the conclusion that I wasn't looking 
such kind of synth. I 
> don't really need a lead synth. And I need more sounding 
possibilities.
> 
> I'm looking for a synthesizer that's the most tweakable possible, 
and that is a good option 
> to create ambiences, allied to a analog sound that can be organic 
and full of soul, like my 
> favourite synthesizer ever, the Prophet 5. Like I said, I'm not a 
keyboardist, I used to be a 
> bassist, and now I'm just a synth addicted with an urge to create 
new sounds. Let just say 
> that I'm looking for something with sounds between Ryuichi 
Sakamoto, YMO, Jean Michel 
> Jarre, Squarepusher and Alva Noto.Yeah, a bunch of totally 
different things!!!!
> 
> Do you think the Evolver keyboard is a good choice? What about the 
Prophet 8? I really like 
> this last one, but the keyboard is just too big, and I need 
something that occupies little 
> space, yet that is fast/fun enough for me to tweak, so I think the 
Evolver desktop is out of 
> the run :(
> 
> 
> I'm sorry for this somewhat long e-mail, but ever since I sold my 
Moog and got to know 
> synths better, I can't wait to get my very own DSI synthesizer!
> 
> 
> Thank you very much!
> 
> 
> Cheers!
>
You also need to consider just what about the LP was limiting?  Was 
it the lack of polyphony or programming options?

If it's a polyphony and ease of programming issue, wait for the 
Prophet 08 desktop.  

If it was the lack of programming options then you may want to 
consider an Evolver over the Prophet.  I'm a little shocked that you 
found the LP limiting.  I personally think that you have a 
surprisingly large amount of control over the Little Phatty given its 
simplicity.  You have the classic Moog lead sounds but can get pretty 
weird with it in my opinion.  But if you are not hip to the sounds 
that it makes, the Prophet may be giving you eight voices of sounds 
that are in the same category (very different in character but in a 
similar vein).  I just tried out the full keyboard version and I 
think it's a perfect performance tool.  Just beautiful.

The Evolver, because of its digital side, I think is the far better 
sound designer's choice.  It can sound like a Prophet, it can get 
close enough to the Moog for government work but it can get very very 
strange.  Since you want something small, the PEK is out of the 
question but although the MEK has a bigger footprint than the LP, it 
is still very easy to pick up and put away.  And it has one of the 
best control surfaces that I've ever seen (all of the large DSI 
synths share this).

For me personally, the desktop Evolver is my current best choice.  I 
have enough full keyboard synths right now so if I pulled the trigger 
on an MEK, something would have to go.  But while the matrix on the 
desktop is a bit of a PITA at times, once you learn it you can do 
deep program without feeling too constrained.  Plus, I just got over 
a two week long flu bug.  Sitting up in bed with the spikey little 
blue box was sound design nirvana.

Good luck with your search.

Have you looked at the following document yet ("The Definitive Guide
to Evolver").  Without it, I would have been lost:

http://www.carbon111.com/evolverguide.pdf

Rik

cmbubbs: sometimes it s *how* you use those colors, not the colors themselves. innovation isn t just dependent on the medium used or *that* sound. know what i

yes.. you need the evolver.
I just got my PEK and 
like depeche mode 
I just cant get enough....

I so glad I sold all my synths (all 7 for them)
and just bought this.  it so rocks!

I sold a roand mc-909, Juno-106,(2) alpha juno-2 and it pg300
programmer, a casio vz1, akai s900, ensoniq esq1 and sq-80, yamaha
rs7000 and my dog....

Just my opinion, none of them have the sound quality or options this has

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Bob S." <tttsystems@...> wrote:
>
> Tell me what 7 you sold so I can decide if I should sell some of my
collection to get one...
> 
> Also...does anyone have the Poly rack version.....is it useable
without the knobs & lights of the keyboard ?

> 
> Thanks
> Bob
> El Segundo, CA
> 
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: synthmdl76 
>   To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 5:20 PM
>   Subject: [Evolver] Re: Will a DSI fit my needs?
> 
> 
>   yes.. you need the evolver.
>   I just got my PEK and 
>   like depeche mode 
>   I just cant get enough....
> 
>   I so glad I sold all my synths (all 7 for them)
>   and just bought this. it so rocks!
>

isn t it possiblt to control the PER from the little tabletop Evolver? ... isn t it possiblt to control the PER from the little tabletop Evolver? On Feb 3,

Hi people!

First of all I would like to thank you for the help! Now I'm pretty sure I want a Evolver, but 
now this takes me to some more questions.

--------
Question 1
--------

- Evolver desktop or Evolver keyboard?


I mean, what are the PROs and CONs of one versus the other? I know the keyboard is a big 
plus, but regarding the price is a different of 700 euros between one and other, and for 
that difference I can buy another Evolver desktop ;)



--------
Question 2
--------

What kind of midi controllers would you advise me to control the Evolver desktop? It would 
be great if you could give me exact names and brands of midi controllers in order for me 
to check out. I know I need a keyboard to create more melodic sounds, but are there any 
other kinds of midi controllers where I can squeeze the most out of a Evolver?

And is there any kind of midi controller where I can assign all the functions of the Evolver 
desktop, like if it was the MEK? I mean: a function > a knob?



--------
Some other information
--------

Lots of you told me to try the synths before I buy them. Unfortunelly that is impossible, 
since there is no DSI retailer in Portugal, so I really need to 'trust' reviews, word-of-
mouth, sound samples and videos.

Someone asked me why I didn't liked the Moog LP. Well, the LP was my first synth. I 
bought it in order to 'introduce myself' to the synth world, and learn the basics of sound 
design. I spent hours and hours tweaking those knobs, and even though the LP had an 
excellent sound, the synth always seemed to ask for a lead role, and since I'm no 
keyboardist and I wanted a synthesizer to create ambient sounds and effects, I didn't really 
liked the Moog LP :(

Like I said on my earlier post I'm looking for something with sounds between Ryuichi 
Sakamoto, YMO, Jean Michel Jarre, Squarepusher and Alva Noto. Etc...

> The included soundtower software editor is a huge help
 
Included? My Desktop came with no software. Am I missing something?
 
-- Iain

________________________________

From: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com [mailto:DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of John Wieczorek
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 3:10 PM
To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Evolver] Re: Will a DSI fit my needs?



Yes - it is usable but much more tedious to edit than the MED. 
I really don't mind the MED, BTW.

The included soundtower  software editor is a huge help.

jmw


On Feb 2, 2008, at 8:40 PM, Bob S. wrote:


	

	Tell me what 7 you sold so I can decide if I should sell some of
my collection to get one...
	 
	Also...does anyone have the Poly rack version.....is it useable
without the knobs & lights of the keyboard ?
	 
	Thanks
	Bob
	El Segundo, CA
	
	 
	

		----- Original Message -----
		From: synthmdl76 <mailto:synthmdl76@...> 
		To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com> 
		Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 5:20 PM
		Subject: [Evolver] Re: Will a DSI fit my needs?


		yes.. you need the evolver.
		I just got my PEK and 
		like depeche mode 
		I just cant get enough....
		
		I so glad I sold all my synths (all 7 for them)
		and just bought this. it so rocks!
		
		


	


 


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--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "rikp1964" <rikp1964@...> wrote:
>
> 
> Have you looked at the following document yet ("The Definitive Guide
> to Evolver").  Without it, I would have been lost:
> 
> http://www.carbon111.com/evolverguide.pdf
> 
> Rik
>

Yes, Carbon111, that document was a "labor-of-love" from Mr. Kirk and 
helped me a lot.
Now, if we could only twist his arm gently enough for a Definitive 
Guide for the PEK.... I'd surely pay for my copy !!
So much I don't understand about the PEK and the Owner's Manual isn't 
really for beginners.

While we are on the subject, can I sell my Waldorf uWave XT in favor of the PEK....or are they unique enough?� Anyone have a Blofeld yet (another wavetable synth) and how does it compare in sound to the PEK ?

Bob
El Segundo, CA

> Question 1
> --------
> 
> - Evolver desktop or Evolver keyboard?

I have both the mono desktop and the MEK. I just couldn't take editing on the desktop 
without the editor but with the editor it's great. When I got the MEK I discovered editing 
wasn't quite as easy as with the computer editor for the MOD. I've spent quite a bit of time 
with it now and am pretty comfortable moving around it but with the computer editor you 
can see everything on the screen at a glance. When programming on the interface you have 
to remember everything you've done. And in order to check something you have to push the 
button or move the knob. BUT, the thing is I've found the first thing I go to is ALWAYS the 
MEK. It's all in one place rather than having a keyboard one place and looking at the 
computer screen somewhere else and then if you need to start the sedquencer the MOD is 
somewhere else. I just don't like that feeling of the instrument being in several places as 
opposed to just one. 

steve

smcmusic.net

The main reason I bought the PEK was so I did not have to use my PC. 
I hope to never have to use the pc for anything other than just
converting my songs to mp3s to upload.  I even do my final mix on
hardware, a zoom mrs1044.  

So to go a bit off track, but I just find computers so uninspiring.

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "synthmdl76" <synthmdl76@...> wrote:
>
> The main reason I bought the PEK was so I did not have to use my PC. 
> I hope to never have to use the pc for anything other than just
> converting my songs to mp3s to upload.  I even do my final mix on
> hardware, a zoom mrs1044.  
> 
> So to go a bit off track, but I just find computers so uninspiring.
>


I don't want to use my computer as well. That is the reason why I am planning on using ONLY 
analog hardware. But... to use the Evolver desktop I really need to use my computer?

hell no. some people have trouble with the layout. it s fine but takes some work to get used to. but to do all that in such a small package, IMO it s worth it.

No. I just got my dEvo today, and find it's interface pretty easy to 
work with.  I try to use a computer as little as possible myself. I do 
plan on purchasing the editor from DSI sometime in the future though.

>
> I don't want to use my computer as well. That is the reason why I am planning on using ONLY 
> analog hardware. But... to use the Evolver desktop I really need to use my computer?
>

> the softeditor is for sissys..
>
>

for real, if i wanted that id use a vst

The editors have their place - I mainly use them to randomize and to morph between patches that I like.

But in general I've found that the less I look at a screen the more music that I make.

jmw

On Feb 5, 2008, at 12:04 PM, josh wrote:

> the softeditor is for sissys..
>
>

for real, if i wanted that id use a vst

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "synthmdl76" <synthmdl76@...> wrote:
>
> The main reason I bought the PEK was so I did not have to use my PC. 
> I hope to never have to use the pc for anything other than just
> converting my songs to mp3s to upload.  I even do my final mix on
> hardware, a zoom mrs1044.  
> 
> So to go a bit off track, but I just find computers so uninspiring.
>

I also bought a PEK because I was tired of dragging a mouse. But as 
much as I love the sound, the encoders are terrible. They don't react 
well to fast turns and you can't see the settings at a glance. Having 
to turn a knob slightly to see one value at a time is very 
inconvenient. So, back to dragging a mouse again to manipulate an 
editor (Vyzor) where I can see the settings at a glance. I wish the 
controls were like the ones on my Dot Com synth, but then the PEK would 
have to be enormous. Technology - one step forward, one step backward.

What I like about the desktop is that I DONT know whats going on sometimes. Also I am sure that using the computer editor you could come up with totatally new

see, and this is exactly why i don t like using a DX-7 and why i would rather use my Jupiter 6.

really though, i don t know why anyone would need an editor for the little tabletop Evolver.  to me it looks super easy to edit - i mean no more difficult than

>  really though, i don't know why anyone would need an editor for the little
> tabletop Evolver.  to me it looks super easy to edit - i mean no more
> difficult than a Matrix 6 or a Waldorf Pulse in terms of the "matrix"
> editing (obviously the Evolver has a more in depth synth engine then either
> of those two).  everything is right there, pick the row and twiddle the knob
> in the desired column.  how hard can that be?

Yeah, I'm with you on this. I don't really understand why someone
would need an editor - the Evolver is so logically and intuitively
laid out that after about two days of using it I don't even need to
look at the actual text anymore. The only thing that was a little
weird to me is the filter cutoff being on 1 and the resonance being on
7, rather than having them next to each other, but EVERY other control
is perfectly logically laid out. Killer interface.

AH

When the Evo comes from the factory, are the user slots full or empty?

-Larry

It uses the Prophet VS wavesahpes by default.
The 'Definitive guide' has all the names, and this site:
http://www.carbon111.com/evolver.html
has pictures of the waves and their respective spectra in the
waveshapes section.
-josh

On Feb 6, 2008 10:35 PM, Computer Controlled <acidted@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> When the Evo comes from the factory, are the user slots full or empty?
>
>  -Larry
>

I know, i'm just wondering if waveshape #s 95 and up have waveforms in 
them or are just blank.



josh wrote:

> It uses the Prophet VS wavesahpes by default.
> The 'Definitive guide' has all the names, and this site:
> http://www.carbon111.com/evolver.html
> has pictures of the waves and their respective spectra in the
> waveshapes section.
> -josh
>
> On Feb 6, 2008 10:35 PM, Computer Controlled <acidted@...> wrote:
>   
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> When the Evo comes from the factory, are the user slots full or empty?
>>
>>  -Larry
>>  
>>     
>
>
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

They are not blank, but if I recall correctly they simply contain copies 
of some of the other waveforms.

/Christian
www.newmodernangels.com
www.myspace.com/newmodernangels
 - electropop -


Computer Controlled wrote:

> I know, i'm just wondering if waveshape #s 95 and up have waveforms in
> them or are just blank.
>
> josh wrote:
> > It uses the Prophet VS wavesahpes by default.
> > The 'Definitive guide' has all the names, and this site:
> > http://www.carbon111.com/evolver.html 
> <http://www.carbon111.com/evolver.html>
> > has pictures of the waves and their respective spectra in the
> > waveshapes section.
> > -josh
> >
> > On Feb 6, 2008 10:35 PM, Computer Controlled <acidted@... 
> <mailto:acidted%40gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> When the Evo comes from the factory, are the user slots full or empty?
> >>
> >> -Larry
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Ah, i missed that part in the manual!



John Wieczorek wrote:

> >From the 3.0 manual:
> Evolver is shipped with waves 96 \ufffd 128 the same as
> 1 \ufffd 31.
>
>
>
> jmw
>