Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Vern,

Thanks for addressing my concerns (and more). I have absolutely no 
trouble seeing them eroded. I would be surprised if anyone had 
enough of an allegianace to Yahoo per se to think that an upgrade, 
even if only in technical terms, were outside the realm of 
possibility. Nor can anyone feel anything but gratitude to you for 
donating your skill, time, and resources to this humble enterprise. 
I also believe that your personal background and interests are a 
valuable asset to this group, wherever it winds up. The intention of 
giving the group a more professional air speaks directly to how I 
envision it in its most effective form. Obviously, it should be fun 
to belong, but if more serious ends can be accomplished in the 
process, all the better. 

That said, if you want to formally propose a move, why not set up a 
poll with a finite time frame (I'm not talking about a time frame 
that would try your patience), stipulating the advantages (not 
unlike your recent post), and see what kind of response you get? 
Then, if the numbers are good, maybe we could pick up stakes without 
further ado. If the numbers are poor, either in turnout or in favor, 
then you could further address members' reluctance directly. At the 
very least, alerting the membership to the poll might help to rally 
those who do not regularly pay attention to the posts (I'm sure that 
quite a few of the 600 are casual readers, but we need them; today's 
casual reader is tomorrow's activist if someone steps on his/her 
toes or if his/her module starts smoking).

This is simply a suggestion, purely to mitigate the splintering 
effect of leaving abruptly. If you consider it unnecessary, then so 
be it. I'm also wondering whether an invitation might be extended to 
those in the DTX and the DTXtreme groups (the vdrums forum, for 
instance, does not discriminate by Roland model at all; it even has 
some Yamaha members.) What a unified front that would be. Think of 
the announcement to Yamaha: The Yamaha e-drum web community would 
like to announce its consolidation at . . . .

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> wrote:
> Thank you for spending the time to illuminate your position on a 
new
> vehicle for a DTXpress forum. I understand your point(s) and can 
see the
> reasoning is well grounded.
> 
> I would like to submit that moving from a "generic" forum 
structure (like
> yahoo-groups, which contains all sorts of.. um.. "questionable" 
forums
> i.e. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unholybarnyard/) to a dedicated
> domain, would show a step UP in professionalism. The drawbacks of 
the
> yahoo groups are many:
> 
> They embed advertising
> 
> They redirect you to advertizing before showing you new messages 
(from
> web interface)
> 
> Want to download a file? have to read an ad.
> 
> Want to search old messages, guess what? time to read an ad.
> 
> They use your Personal information for marketing (Read: SPAM!)
> 
> They track your usage for demographic/marketing data (read: more
> *accurate* SPAM!)
> 
> They do not guarantee any uptime, or database content preservation 
(all
> files and old posts can go bye-bye at any time, don't belive me? 
Read
> their AUP!)
> 
> Anyone and his Dog can make a yahoo group, there are many amateurs 
with
> ridiculous groups on Yahoo (do a search sometime) so the neighbors 
we
> have  aren't exactly the intellectual elite (i.e.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Village_Of_Idiots :)
> 
> What I propose is that we move UP to a *dedicated* forum, with
> *dedicated* access on a *dedicated*, easy to remember domain like:
> 
> DTXpressions.com
> 
> not
> 
> http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/SomeDrumAmaJig
> 
> 
> I really feel this would take the seriousness and profesionalism 
of our
> forum and our membership up a level. I would hope to turn over the
> moderation/creation/management to the more active members (such as 
you)
> to guide the progress of the board and to help to grow our 
community.
> 
> I have been in the ISP business since 1996 (have a look at
> http://www.archive.org to see how long my servers have been 
around!) and
> have a stellar uptime record for the commercial servers we host 
here in
> Austin Tx, and I am willing to donate the server time and space
> (honestly, about $129/month would be the normal commercial rate 
for the
> site like the one I am offering!) as well as the domain name 
(already
> registered and up!) and associated administrative time if you guys 
are
> interested in moving up to a more professional level.
> 
> In fact, I would even be willing to formalize this by placing the 
domain
> name into the ownership/assets of a non-profit corp so no one 
would get
> ancy about the site being run/owned by one person (me at this 
point).
> Once we get the new area stabilized, we could make an official
> announcement (that would include the Yamaha folks), and then place
> redirectors (messages with the new address) on the Yahoo list to 
help
> people find our new home and to show off our new digs. :)
> 
> Let me be clear, the *last* thing I want to do is dilute the 
membership
> and/or split the group. Your concern is quite valid, but I think 
handled
> correctly this could be a way to improve our image and to make our 
group
> more condensed/cohesive/respectable/valid/powerful (oh I don't i 
know,
> pick one! :)
> 
> So, what do I get out of this? :) I get to see the group move up 
to a new
> level by offering a commercial system to everyone for free since 
a) by
> lucky coincidence I happen to own an ISP and b) I have the same 
interest
> as  the folks on the list  and I'd like to help contribute to the 
group.
> And to help convince people I'm not a looney, I'll be really brave
> here... Want to know who I am and everything about me? Go here:
> 
> http://www.graner.net/resume (even has pictures of me on stage 
with an
> Octapad MIDI'd to a TR-505 and some Synares! Yikes! :D
> 
> To be honest, this group is *very* informative, the signal to 
noise ratio
> is spectacular and I do not make this kind of offer very often or
> lightly. The fact is that this will make more work for me, but I am
> willing to do the work if it would help out the community. But, if 
the
> community wants to uh, "yahoo!", who am I to stand in the way? :)
> 
> Comments? :)
> 
> Vern
> 
> -- 
> Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then you're
> Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are we
> Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the network
> vern@t... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
> Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG
> 
> 
> liberatusvirus said:
> > Vern,
> >
> > Your proposed alternative to the Yahoo board would undoubtedly 
be an
> > improvement in many important respects. It's much more along the
> > lines of the unofficial vdrums forum, which is a very 
informative,  and
> > classy setup. My sole concern is this: Yamaha is aware of this  
group.
> > Just months after it was established in late 1999, it
> > achieved a certain credibility with the company because of the
> > intelligent questions and comments that emanated from it.
> > Apparently, Dave Jewell has been known to check it out from time 
to
> > time, especially, shall we say, in times of stress. I'm not 
claiming
> > that the board has the undivided attention of Yamaha's 
management;
> > it's definitely well on the peripery. But it does have a 
presence,  and
> > our recent telephone foray into the hierarchy has given it
> > renewed notoriety. I doubt very much that the vdrums forum has
> > anywhere near the contact with Roland that this one has with 
Yamaha.
> >
> > The Yahoo board is now 600 strong. If there's an exodus, some 
people
> > will undoubtedly stay behind. I don't know how many, but it 
always
> > happens. That will mean that the membership of 600 will get 
diluted.
> > Some of us would like to see this group, or whatever group takes 
its
> > place, become even more significant in Yamaha's e-drum plans. If
> > that is ever to happen, the numbers will matter. Also, the more 
we
> > become a moving target, the less chance we may have to solidify 
our
> > position.  Would it be unthinkable for Yamaha to search out a new
> > group if it forms, or to file the new web address away somewhere 
in
> > case they want to check it out? No, but I'm not sure that even so
> > seemingly innocuous a change as a splintered board wouldn't be an
> > excuse for them to lose any interest that they might have now. 
As I
> > said, we're on the periphery. These are delicate times for e-
drums,
> > especially Yamaha, which has discontinued two of its three 
lines. I
> > would like to see this group become a testing ground of sorts for
> > Yamaha's ideas. I don't know if it will happen, but I don't want 
to
> > risk anything that might diffuse its input. As a related case in
> > point, we managed to get Visu-lite, a small company, to make a
> > product solely for owners of Yamaha modules. This was no meant 
feat,
> > and it happened, in part, because we could point to a large 
number  of
> > possibly interested people in one place who would become aware 
of  it
> > in one fell swoop.
> >
> > Your proposal is enormously tempting, but I think these points
> > should be taken into consideration.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> 
wrote:
> >> Just turn OFF HTML when reading your messages. It makes it 
(barely)
> >> bearable. :)
> >>
> >> I've been thinking about adding a mailing list or message board 
to
> > the
> >> DTXpressions.com website to offer up as a replacement since I'm
> > not a big
> >> fan of Yahoo anyway... How many of you think the embedded ads 
are
> >> intrusive enough to justify a move?
> >>
> >> Vern
> >>
> >> PS: to see a prototype of the message base I'm talking about, go
> > here:
> >>
> >> http://www.dtxpressions.com/phpbb
> >>
> >> --
> >> Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then 
you're
> >> Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are 
we
> >> Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the 
network
> >> vern@t... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
> >> Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" 
VLG
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> hairytrigger said:
> >> > Yes, I get those messages too. Lately, a long, horizontal one 
is
> >> covering the text.Somebody screwed something up.
> >> > Scott
> >> >
> >> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "leffelejon" <gadda@k...> 
wrote:
> >> >> Anyone else get those advertisments all over the text in
> > messages?
> >> >> Its really annoying
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Community email addresses:
> >> >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> >> >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> >> >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >> >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> >> >
> >> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >> >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> >> >
> >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > Community email addresses:
> >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> >
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/