Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Anyone else get those advertisments all over the text in messages?
Its really annoying

On Sat, 08 Mar 2003 02:10:43 -0000, you wrote:

>Anyone else get those advertisments all over the text in messages?
>Its really annoying

I use a text-based email/news reader (Forte Agent) so I only see the
text of the message and the stuff below.

>Community email addresses:
>  Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
>  Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
>  Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>  List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
>
>Shortcut URL to this page:
>  http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress 
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 




____________________________

Jim

Yes, I get those messages too. Lately, a long, horizontal one is 
covering the text.Somebody screwed something up. 
Scott

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "leffelejon" <gadda@k...> wrote:
> Anyone else get those advertisments all over the text in messages?
> Its really annoying

Just turn OFF HTML when reading your messages. It makes it (barely)
bearable. :)

I've been thinking about adding a mailing list or message board to the
DTXpressions.com website to offer up as a replacement since I'm not a big
fan of Yahoo anyway... How many of you think the embedded ads are
intrusive enough to justify a move?

Vern

PS: to see a prototype of the message base I'm talking about, go here:

http://www.dtxpressions.com/phpbb

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the network
vern@... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG



hairytrigger said:

> Yes, I get those messages too. Lately, a long, horizontal one is
> covering the text.Somebody screwed something up.
> Scott
>
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "leffelejon" <gadda@k...> wrote:
>> Anyone else get those advertisments all over the text in messages?
>> Its really annoying
>
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hey, Vern

I think it's a great idea.  Infact, I've already
signed up!  Snootch_To_The_Nootch is the name, and
hopefully things will take off.  Great idea!

Brett


--- Vernon Graner <vern@...> wrote:
> Just turn OFF HTML when reading your messages. It
> makes it (barely)
> bearable. :)
> 
> I've been thinking about adding a mailing list or
> message board to the
> DTXpressions.com website to offer up as a
> replacement since I'm not a big
> fan of Yahoo anyway... How many of you think the
> embedded ads are
> intrusive enough to justify a move?
> 
> Vern
> 
> PS: to see a prototype of the message base I'm
> talking about, go here:
> 
> http://www.dtxpressions.com/phpbb
> 
> -- 
> Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is
> down, then you're
> Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent
> so why are we
> Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course,
> if the network
> vern@... www.txis.com  | is up, then we
> obviously don't need
> Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we
> paying you?" VLG
> 
> 
> 
> hairytrigger said:
> > Yes, I get those messages too. Lately, a long,
> horizontal one is
> > covering the text.Somebody screwed something up.
> > Scott
> >
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "leffelejon"
> <gadda@k...> wrote:
> >> Anyone else get those advertisments all over the
> text in messages?
> >> Its really annoying
> >
> >
> > Community email addresses:
> >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> >
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 
> 
> 


=====

Vote Quimby!

On Sat, 8 Mar 2003 08:11:42 -0600 (CST), you wrote:

>Just turn OFF HTML when reading your messages. It makes it (barely)
>bearable. :)
>
>I've been thinking about adding a mailing list or message board to the
>DTXpressions.com website to offer up as a replacement since I'm not a big
>fan of Yahoo anyway... How many of you think the embedded ads are
>intrusive enough to justify a move?

I for one, don't see a need to pick up and move what is already a
highly successful mailing list.

If you don't like the ads, stop using Outlook Express and use a *real*
email program.  Two fine examples are Eudora and Agent.  Both will
allow you to turn off HTML in emails and leave you with ASCII text
only.  Both are extremely more secure than OE and besides, having HTML
displayed in your emails is hazardous to your computer's health.

HTML belongs on web pages.  ASCII text is for emails and newsgroup
posts.




____________________________

Jim

What does the email program he uses have to do with the ads on this 
forum? I read them in a browser, not my email program!!!( which by the 
way, displays web pages)

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, Ratzo <ratzo@t...> wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Mar 2003 08:11:42 -0600 (CST), you wrote:
> 
> >Just turn OFF HTML when reading your messages. It makes it (barely)
> >bearable. :)
> >
> >I've been thinking about adding a mailing list or message board to 
the
> >DTXpressions.com website to offer up as a replacement since I'm not 
a big
> >fan of Yahoo anyway... How many of you think the embedded ads are
> >intrusive enough to justify a move?
> 
> I for one, don't see a need to pick up and move what is already a
> highly successful mailing list.
> 
> If you don't like the ads, stop using Outlook Express and use a 
*real*
> email program.  Two fine examples are Eudora and Agent.  Both will
> allow you to turn off HTML in emails and leave you with ASCII text
> only.  Both are extremely more secure than OE and besides, having 
HTML

> displayed in your emails is hazardous to your computer's health.
> 
> HTML belongs on web pages.  ASCII text is for emails and newsgroup
> posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________
> 
> Jim

On Sun, 09 Mar 2003 00:44:35 -0000, you wrote:

>What does the email program he uses have to do with the ads on this 
>forum? I read them in a browser, not my email program!!!( which by the 
>way, displays web pages)

I just uploaded a screen shot of Forte Agent displaying your original
post.  Go look at it.  No ads.  It's in the folder "Ratzo"

You can set up the group to email you new posts, as they are posted.
You can then read them, and reply to them with your default email
program.  There is no need to go to the Yahoo Groups site to read and
post messages to the forum.

Outlook Express tries to show you all HTML that's been compiled into
an email message.  Programs like the one I use, don't even read the
HTML in an email, If I so choose, and I do.



____________________________

Jim

Vern,

Your proposed alternative to the Yahoo board would undoubtedly be an 
improvement in many important respects. It's much more along the 
lines of the unofficial vdrums forum, which is a very informative, 
and classy setup. My sole concern is this: Yamaha is aware of this 
group. Just months after it was established in late 1999, it 
achieved a certain credibility with the company because of the 
intelligent questions and comments that emanated from it. 
Apparently, Dave Jewell has been known to check it out from time to 
time, especially, shall we say, in times of stress. I'm not claiming 
that the board has the undivided attention of Yamaha's management; 
it's definitely well on the peripery. But it does have a presence, 
and our recent telephone foray into the hierarchy has given it 
renewed notoriety. I doubt very much that the vdrums forum has 
anywhere near the contact with Roland that this one has with Yamaha. 

The Yahoo board is now 600 strong. If there's an exodus, some people 
will undoubtedly stay behind. I don't know how many, but it always 
happens. That will mean that the membership of 600 will get diluted. 
Some of us would like to see this group, or whatever group takes its 
place, become even more significant in Yamaha's e-drum plans. If 
that is ever to happen, the numbers will matter. Also, the more we 
become a moving target, the less chance we may have to solidify our 
position.  Would it be unthinkable for Yamaha to search out a new 
group if it forms, or to file the new web address away somewhere in 
case they want to check it out? No, but I'm not sure that even so 
seemingly innocuous a change as a splintered board wouldn't be an 
excuse for them to lose any interest that they might have now. As I 
said, we're on the periphery. These are delicate times for e-drums, 
especially Yamaha, which has discontinued two of its three lines. I 
would like to see this group become a testing ground of sorts for 
Yamaha's ideas. I don't know if it will happen, but I don't want to 
risk anything that might diffuse its input. As a related case in 
point, we managed to get Visu-lite, a small company, to make a 
product solely for owners of Yamaha modules. This was no meant feat, 
and it happened, in part, because we could point to a large number 
of possibly interested people in one place who would become aware of 
it in one fell swoop. 

Your proposal is enormously tempting, but I think these points 
should be taken into consideration.

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> wrote:
> Just turn OFF HTML when reading your messages. It makes it (barely)
> bearable. :)
> 
> I've been thinking about adding a mailing list or message board to 
the
> DTXpressions.com website to offer up as a replacement since I'm 
not a big
> fan of Yahoo anyway... How many of you think the embedded ads are
> intrusive enough to justify a move?
> 
> Vern
> 
> PS: to see a prototype of the message base I'm talking about, go 
here:
> 
> http://www.dtxpressions.com/phpbb
> 
> -- 
> Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then you're
> Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are we
> Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the network
> vern@t... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
> Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG
> 
> 
> 
> hairytrigger said:
> > Yes, I get those messages too. Lately, a long, horizontal one is
> > covering the text.Somebody screwed something up.
> > Scott
> >
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "leffelejon" <gadda@k...> wrote:
> >> Anyone else get those advertisments all over the text in 
messages?

> >> Its really annoying
> >
> >
> > Community email addresses:
> >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> >
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Thank you for spending the time to illuminate your position on a new
vehicle for a DTXpress forum. I understand your point(s) and can see the
reasoning is well grounded.

I would like to submit that moving from a "generic" forum structure (like
yahoo-groups, which contains all sorts of.. um.. "questionable" forums
i.e. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unholybarnyard/) to a dedicated
domain, would show a step UP in professionalism. The drawbacks of the
yahoo groups are many:

They embed advertising

They redirect you to advertizing before showing you new messages (from
web interface)

Want to download a file? have to read an ad.

Want to search old messages, guess what? time to read an ad.

They use your Personal information for marketing (Read: SPAM!)

They track your usage for demographic/marketing data (read: more
*accurate* SPAM!)

They do not guarantee any uptime, or database content preservation (all
files and old posts can go bye-bye at any time, don't belive me? Read
their AUP!)

Anyone and his Dog can make a yahoo group, there are many amateurs with
ridiculous groups on Yahoo (do a search sometime) so the neighbors we
have  aren't exactly the intellectual elite (i.e.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Village_Of_Idiots :)

What I propose is that we move UP to a *dedicated* forum, with
*dedicated* access on a *dedicated*, easy to remember domain like:

DTXpressions.com

not

http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/SomeDrumAmaJig


I really feel this would take the seriousness and profesionalism of our
forum and our membership up a level. I would hope to turn over the
moderation/creation/management to the more active members (such as you)
to guide the progress of the board and to help to grow our community.

I have been in the ISP business since 1996 (have a look at
http://www.archive.org to see how long my servers have been around!) and
have a stellar uptime record for the commercial servers we host here in
Austin Tx, and I am willing to donate the server time and space
(honestly, about $129/month would be the normal commercial rate for the
site like the one I am offering!) as well as the domain name (already
registered and up!) and associated administrative time if you guys are
interested in moving up to a more professional level.

In fact, I would even be willing to formalize this by placing the domain
name into the ownership/assets of a non-profit corp so no one would get
ancy about the site being run/owned by one person (me at this point).
Once we get the new area stabilized, we could make an official
announcement (that would include the Yamaha folks), and then place
redirectors (messages with the new address) on the Yahoo list to help
people find our new home and to show off our new digs. :)

Let me be clear, the *last* thing I want to do is dilute the membership
and/or split the group. Your concern is quite valid, but I think handled
correctly this could be a way to improve our image and to make our group
more condensed/cohesive/respectable/valid/powerful (oh I don't i know,
pick one! :)

So, what do I get out of this? :) I get to see the group move up to a new
level by offering a commercial system to everyone for free since a) by
lucky coincidence I happen to own an ISP and b) I have the same interest
as  the folks on the list  and I'd like to help contribute to the group.
And to help convince people I'm not a looney, I'll be really brave
here... Want to know who I am and everything about me? Go here:

http://www.graner.net/resume (even has pictures of me on stage with an
Octapad MIDI'd to a TR-505 and some Synares! Yikes! :D

To be honest, this group is *very* informative, the signal to noise ratio
is spectacular and I do not make this kind of offer very often or
lightly. The fact is that this will make more work for me, but I am
willing to do the work if it would help out the community. But, if the
community wants to uh, "yahoo!", who am I to stand in the way? :)

Comments? :)

Vern

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the network
vern@... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG


liberatusvirus said:

> Vern,
>
> Your proposed alternative to the Yahoo board would undoubtedly be an
> improvement in many important respects. It's much more along the
> lines of the unofficial vdrums forum, which is a very informative,  and
> classy setup. My sole concern is this: Yamaha is aware of this  group.
> Just months after it was established in late 1999, it
> achieved a certain credibility with the company because of the
> intelligent questions and comments that emanated from it.
> Apparently, Dave Jewell has been known to check it out from time to
> time, especially, shall we say, in times of stress. I'm not claiming
> that the board has the undivided attention of Yamaha's management;
> it's definitely well on the peripery. But it does have a presence,  and
> our recent telephone foray into the hierarchy has given it
> renewed notoriety. I doubt very much that the vdrums forum has
> anywhere near the contact with Roland that this one has with Yamaha.
>
> The Yahoo board is now 600 strong. If there's an exodus, some people
> will undoubtedly stay behind. I don't know how many, but it always
> happens. That will mean that the membership of 600 will get diluted.
> Some of us would like to see this group, or whatever group takes its
> place, become even more significant in Yamaha's e-drum plans. If
> that is ever to happen, the numbers will matter. Also, the more we
> become a moving target, the less chance we may have to solidify our
> position.  Would it be unthinkable for Yamaha to search out a new
> group if it forms, or to file the new web address away somewhere in
> case they want to check it out? No, but I'm not sure that even so
> seemingly innocuous a change as a splintered board wouldn't be an
> excuse for them to lose any interest that they might have now. As I
> said, we're on the periphery. These are delicate times for e-drums,
> especially Yamaha, which has discontinued two of its three lines. I
> would like to see this group become a testing ground of sorts for
> Yamaha's ideas. I don't know if it will happen, but I don't want to
> risk anything that might diffuse its input. As a related case in
> point, we managed to get Visu-lite, a small company, to make a
> product solely for owners of Yamaha modules. This was no meant feat,
> and it happened, in part, because we could point to a large number  of
> possibly interested people in one place who would become aware of  it
> in one fell swoop.
>
> Your proposal is enormously tempting, but I think these points
> should be taken into consideration.
>
> Ed
>
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> wrote:
>> Just turn OFF HTML when reading your messages. It makes it (barely)
>> bearable. :)
>>
>> I've been thinking about adding a mailing list or message board to
> the
>> DTXpressions.com website to offer up as a replacement since I'm
> not a big
>> fan of Yahoo anyway... How many of you think the embedded ads are
>> intrusive enough to justify a move?
>>
>> Vern
>>
>> PS: to see a prototype of the message base I'm talking about, go
> here:
>>
>> http://www.dtxpressions.com/phpbb
>>
>> --
>> Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then you're
>> Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are we
>> Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the network
>> vern@t... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
>> Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG
>>
>>
>>
>> hairytrigger said:
>> > Yes, I get those messages too. Lately, a long, horizontal one is
>> covering the text.Somebody screwed something up.
>> > Scott
>> >
>> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "leffelejon" <gadda@k...> wrote:
>> >> Anyone else get those advertisments all over the text in
> messages?
>> >> Its really annoying
>> >
>> >
>> > Community email addresses:
>> >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
>> >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
>> >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>> >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
>> >
>> > Shortcut URL to this page:
>> >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
>> >
>> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Vern,

Thanks for addressing my concerns (and more). I have absolutely no 
trouble seeing them eroded. I would be surprised if anyone had 
enough of an allegianace to Yahoo per se to think that an upgrade, 
even if only in technical terms, were outside the realm of 
possibility. Nor can anyone feel anything but gratitude to you for 
donating your skill, time, and resources to this humble enterprise. 
I also believe that your personal background and interests are a 
valuable asset to this group, wherever it winds up. The intention of 
giving the group a more professional air speaks directly to how I 
envision it in its most effective form. Obviously, it should be fun 
to belong, but if more serious ends can be accomplished in the 
process, all the better. 

That said, if you want to formally propose a move, why not set up a 
poll with a finite time frame (I'm not talking about a time frame 
that would try your patience), stipulating the advantages (not 
unlike your recent post), and see what kind of response you get? 
Then, if the numbers are good, maybe we could pick up stakes without 
further ado. If the numbers are poor, either in turnout or in favor, 
then you could further address members' reluctance directly. At the 
very least, alerting the membership to the poll might help to rally 
those who do not regularly pay attention to the posts (I'm sure that 
quite a few of the 600 are casual readers, but we need them; today's 
casual reader is tomorrow's activist if someone steps on his/her 
toes or if his/her module starts smoking).

This is simply a suggestion, purely to mitigate the splintering 
effect of leaving abruptly. If you consider it unnecessary, then so 
be it. I'm also wondering whether an invitation might be extended to 
those in the DTX and the DTXtreme groups (the vdrums forum, for 
instance, does not discriminate by Roland model at all; it even has 
some Yamaha members.) What a unified front that would be. Think of 
the announcement to Yamaha: The Yamaha e-drum web community would 
like to announce its consolidation at . . . .

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> wrote:
> Thank you for spending the time to illuminate your position on a 
new
> vehicle for a DTXpress forum. I understand your point(s) and can 
see the
> reasoning is well grounded.
> 
> I would like to submit that moving from a "generic" forum 
structure (like
> yahoo-groups, which contains all sorts of.. um.. "questionable" 
forums
> i.e. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unholybarnyard/) to a dedicated
> domain, would show a step UP in professionalism. The drawbacks of 
the
> yahoo groups are many:
> 
> They embed advertising
> 
> They redirect you to advertizing before showing you new messages 
(from
> web interface)
> 
> Want to download a file? have to read an ad.
> 
> Want to search old messages, guess what? time to read an ad.
> 
> They use your Personal information for marketing (Read: SPAM!)
> 
> They track your usage for demographic/marketing data (read: more
> *accurate* SPAM!)
> 
> They do not guarantee any uptime, or database content preservation 
(all
> files and old posts can go bye-bye at any time, don't belive me? 
Read
> their AUP!)
> 
> Anyone and his Dog can make a yahoo group, there are many amateurs 
with
> ridiculous groups on Yahoo (do a search sometime) so the neighbors 
we
> have  aren't exactly the intellectual elite (i.e.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Village_Of_Idiots :)
> 
> What I propose is that we move UP to a *dedicated* forum, with
> *dedicated* access on a *dedicated*, easy to remember domain like:
> 
> DTXpressions.com
> 
> not
> 
> http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/SomeDrumAmaJig
> 
> 
> I really feel this would take the seriousness and profesionalism 
of our
> forum and our membership up a level. I would hope to turn over the
> moderation/creation/management to the more active members (such as 
you)
> to guide the progress of the board and to help to grow our 
community.
> 
> I have been in the ISP business since 1996 (have a look at
> http://www.archive.org to see how long my servers have been 
around!) and
> have a stellar uptime record for the commercial servers we host 
here in
> Austin Tx, and I am willing to donate the server time and space
> (honestly, about $129/month would be the normal commercial rate 
for the
> site like the one I am offering!) as well as the domain name 
(already
> registered and up!) and associated administrative time if you guys 
are
> interested in moving up to a more professional level.
> 
> In fact, I would even be willing to formalize this by placing the 
domain
> name into the ownership/assets of a non-profit corp so no one 
would get
> ancy about the site being run/owned by one person (me at this 
point).
> Once we get the new area stabilized, we could make an official
> announcement (that would include the Yamaha folks), and then place
> redirectors (messages with the new address) on the Yahoo list to 
help
> people find our new home and to show off our new digs. :)
> 
> Let me be clear, the *last* thing I want to do is dilute the 
membership
> and/or split the group. Your concern is quite valid, but I think 
handled
> correctly this could be a way to improve our image and to make our 
group
> more condensed/cohesive/respectable/valid/powerful (oh I don't i 
know,
> pick one! :)
> 
> So, what do I get out of this? :) I get to see the group move up 
to a new
> level by offering a commercial system to everyone for free since 
a) by
> lucky coincidence I happen to own an ISP and b) I have the same 
interest
> as  the folks on the list  and I'd like to help contribute to the 
group.
> And to help convince people I'm not a looney, I'll be really brave
> here... Want to know who I am and everything about me? Go here:
> 
> http://www.graner.net/resume (even has pictures of me on stage 
with an
> Octapad MIDI'd to a TR-505 and some Synares! Yikes! :D
> 
> To be honest, this group is *very* informative, the signal to 
noise ratio
> is spectacular and I do not make this kind of offer very often or
> lightly. The fact is that this will make more work for me, but I am
> willing to do the work if it would help out the community. But, if 
the
> community wants to uh, "yahoo!", who am I to stand in the way? :)
> 
> Comments? :)
> 
> Vern
> 
> -- 
> Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then you're
> Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are we
> Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the network
> vern@t... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
> Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG
> 
> 
> liberatusvirus said:
> > Vern,
> >
> > Your proposed alternative to the Yahoo board would undoubtedly 
be an
> > improvement in many important respects. It's much more along the
> > lines of the unofficial vdrums forum, which is a very 
informative,  and
> > classy setup. My sole concern is this: Yamaha is aware of this  
group.
> > Just months after it was established in late 1999, it
> > achieved a certain credibility with the company because of the
> > intelligent questions and comments that emanated from it.
> > Apparently, Dave Jewell has been known to check it out from time 
to
> > time, especially, shall we say, in times of stress. I'm not 
claiming
> > that the board has the undivided attention of Yamaha's 
management;
> > it's definitely well on the peripery. But it does have a 
presence,  and
> > our recent telephone foray into the hierarchy has given it
> > renewed notoriety. I doubt very much that the vdrums forum has
> > anywhere near the contact with Roland that this one has with 
Yamaha.
> >
> > The Yahoo board is now 600 strong. If there's an exodus, some 
people
> > will undoubtedly stay behind. I don't know how many, but it 
always
> > happens. That will mean that the membership of 600 will get 
diluted.
> > Some of us would like to see this group, or whatever group takes 
its
> > place, become even more significant in Yamaha's e-drum plans. If
> > that is ever to happen, the numbers will matter. Also, the more 
we
> > become a moving target, the less chance we may have to solidify 
our
> > position.  Would it be unthinkable for Yamaha to search out a new
> > group if it forms, or to file the new web address away somewhere 
in
> > case they want to check it out? No, but I'm not sure that even so
> > seemingly innocuous a change as a splintered board wouldn't be an
> > excuse for them to lose any interest that they might have now. 
As I
> > said, we're on the periphery. These are delicate times for e-
drums,
> > especially Yamaha, which has discontinued two of its three 
lines. I
> > would like to see this group become a testing ground of sorts for
> > Yamaha's ideas. I don't know if it will happen, but I don't want 
to
> > risk anything that might diffuse its input. As a related case in
> > point, we managed to get Visu-lite, a small company, to make a
> > product solely for owners of Yamaha modules. This was no meant 
feat,
> > and it happened, in part, because we could point to a large 
number  of
> > possibly interested people in one place who would become aware 
of  it
> > in one fell swoop.
> >
> > Your proposal is enormously tempting, but I think these points
> > should be taken into consideration.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> 
wrote:
> >> Just turn OFF HTML when reading your messages. It makes it 
(barely)
> >> bearable. :)
> >>
> >> I've been thinking about adding a mailing list or message board 
to
> > the
> >> DTXpressions.com website to offer up as a replacement since I'm
> > not a big
> >> fan of Yahoo anyway... How many of you think the embedded ads 
are
> >> intrusive enough to justify a move?
> >>
> >> Vern
> >>
> >> PS: to see a prototype of the message base I'm talking about, go
> > here:
> >>
> >> http://www.dtxpressions.com/phpbb
> >>
> >> --
> >> Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then 
you're
> >> Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are 
we
> >> Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the 
network
> >> vern@t... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
> >> Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" 
VLG
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> hairytrigger said:
> >> > Yes, I get those messages too. Lately, a long, horizontal one 
is
> >> covering the text.Somebody screwed something up.
> >> > Scott
> >> >
> >> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "leffelejon" <gadda@k...> 
wrote:

> >> >> Anyone else get those advertisments all over the text in
> > messages?
> >> >> Its really annoying
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Community email addresses:
> >> >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> >> >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> >> >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >> >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> >> >
> >> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >> >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> >> >
> >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> > Community email addresses:
> >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> >
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I am one of the more "casual users" who only occasionally becomes 
active, but would welcome this forum going to a more professional 
location. I think that consolidation of other Yamaha groups could be 
great. Let's have a united voice and show Yamaha we mean business.

Stephen

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus" 
<liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> Vern,
> 
> Thanks for addressing my concerns (and more). I have absolutely no 
> trouble seeing them eroded. I would be surprised if anyone had 
> enough of an allegianace to Yahoo per se to think that an upgrade, 
> even if only in technical terms, were outside the realm of 
> possibility. Nor can anyone feel anything but gratitude to you for 
> donating your skill, time, and resources to this humble 
enterprise. 
> I also believe that your personal background and interests are a 
> valuable asset to this group, wherever it winds up. The intention 
of 
> giving the group a more professional air speaks directly to how I 
> envision it in its most effective form. Obviously, it should be 
fun 
> to belong, but if more serious ends can be accomplished in the 
> process, all the better. 
> 
> That said, if you want to formally propose a move, why not set up 
a 
> poll with a finite time frame (I'm not talking about a time frame 
> that would try your patience), stipulating the advantages (not 
> unlike your recent post), and see what kind of response you get? 
> Then, if the numbers are good, maybe we could pick up stakes 
without 
> further ado. If the numbers are poor, either in turnout or in 
favor, 
> then you could further address members' reluctance directly. At 
the 
> very least, alerting the membership to the poll might help to 
rally 
> those who do not regularly pay attention to the posts (I'm sure 
that 
> quite a few of the 600 are casual readers, but we need them; 
today's 
> casual reader is tomorrow's activist if someone steps on his/her 
> toes or if his/her module starts smoking).
> 
> This is simply a suggestion, purely to mitigate the splintering 
> effect of leaving abruptly. If you consider it unnecessary, then 
so 
> be it. I'm also wondering whether an invitation might be extended 
to 
> those in the DTX and the DTXtreme groups (the vdrums forum, for 
> instance, does not discriminate by Roland model at all; it even 
has 
> some Yamaha members.) What a unified front that would be. Think of 
> the announcement to Yamaha: The Yamaha e-drum web community would 
> like to announce its consolidation at . . . .
> 
> Ed
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> wrote:
> > Thank you for spending the time to illuminate your position on a 
> new
> > vehicle for a DTXpress forum. I understand your point(s) and can 
> see the
> > reasoning is well grounded.
> > 
> > I would like to submit that moving from a "generic" forum 
> structure (like
> > yahoo-groups, which contains all sorts of.. um.. "questionable" 
> forums
> > i.e. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unholybarnyard/) to a 
dedicated
> > domain, would show a step UP in professionalism. The drawbacks 
of 
> the
> > yahoo groups are many:
> > 
> > They embed advertising
> > 
> > They redirect you to advertizing before showing you new messages 
> (from
> > web interface)
> > 
> > Want to download a file? have to read an ad.
> > 
> > Want to search old messages, guess what? time to read an ad.
> > 
> > They use your Personal information for marketing (Read: SPAM!)
> > 
> > They track your usage for demographic/marketing data (read: more
> > *accurate* SPAM!)
> > 
> > They do not guarantee any uptime, or database content 
preservation 
> (all
> > files and old posts can go bye-bye at any time, don't belive me? 
> Read
> > their AUP!)
> > 
> > Anyone and his Dog can make a yahoo group, there are many 
amateurs 
> with
> > ridiculous groups on Yahoo (do a search sometime) so the 
neighbors 
> we
> > have  aren't exactly the intellectual elite (i.e.
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Village_Of_Idiots :)
> > 
> > What I propose is that we move UP to a *dedicated* forum, with
> > *dedicated* access on a *dedicated*, easy to remember domain 
like:
> > 
> > DTXpressions.com
> > 
> > not
> > 
> > http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/SomeDrumAmaJig
> > 
> > 
> > I really feel this would take the seriousness and profesionalism 
> of our
> > forum and our membership up a level. I would hope to turn over 
the
> > moderation/creation/management to the more active members (such 
as 
> you)
> > to guide the progress of the board and to help to grow our 
> community.
> > 
> > I have been in the ISP business since 1996 (have a look at
> > http://www.archive.org to see how long my servers have been 
> around!) and
> > have a stellar uptime record for the commercial servers we host 
> here in
> > Austin Tx, and I am willing to donate the server time and space
> > (honestly, about $129/month would be the normal commercial rate 
> for the
> > site like the one I am offering!) as well as the domain name 
> (already
> > registered and up!) and associated administrative time if you 
guys 
> are
> > interested in moving up to a more professional level.
> > 
> > In fact, I would even be willing to formalize this by placing 
the 
> domain
> > name into the ownership/assets of a non-profit corp so no one 
> would get
> > ancy about the site being run/owned by one person (me at this 
> point).
> > Once we get the new area stabilized, we could make an official
> > announcement (that would include the Yamaha folks), and then 
place
> > redirectors (messages with the new address) on the Yahoo list to 
> help
> > people find our new home and to show off our new digs. :)
> > 
> > Let me be clear, the *last* thing I want to do is dilute the 
> membership
> > and/or split the group. Your concern is quite valid, but I think 
> handled
> > correctly this could be a way to improve our image and to make 
our 
> group
> > more condensed/cohesive/respectable/valid/powerful (oh I don't i 
> know,
> > pick one! :)
> > 
> > So, what do I get out of this? :) I get to see the group move up 
> to a new
> > level by offering a commercial system to everyone for free since 
> a) by
> > lucky coincidence I happen to own an ISP and b) I have the same 
> interest
> > as  the folks on the list  and I'd like to help contribute to 
the 
> group.
> > And to help convince people I'm not a looney, I'll be really 
brave
> > here... Want to know who I am and everything about me? Go here:
> > 
> > http://www.graner.net/resume (even has pictures of me on stage 
> with an
> > Octapad MIDI'd to a TR-505 and some Synares! Yikes! :D
> > 
> > To be honest, this group is *very* informative, the signal to 
> noise ratio
> > is spectacular and I do not make this kind of offer very often or
> > lightly. The fact is that this will make more work for me, but I 
am
> > willing to do the work if it would help out the community. But, 
if 
> the
> > community wants to uh, "yahoo!", who am I to stand in the way? :)
> > 
> > Comments? :)
> > 
> > Vern
> > 
> > -- 
> > Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then 
you're
> > Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are we
> > Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the 
network
> > vern@t... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
> > Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG
> > 
> > 
> > liberatusvirus said:
> > > Vern,
> > >
> > > Your proposed alternative to the Yahoo board would undoubtedly 
> be an
> > > improvement in many important respects. It's much more along 
the
> > > lines of the unofficial vdrums forum, which is a very 
> informative,  and
> > > classy setup. My sole concern is this: Yamaha is aware of 
this  
> group.
> > > Just months after it was established in late 1999, it
> > > achieved a certain credibility with the company because of the
> > > intelligent questions and comments that emanated from it.
> > > Apparently, Dave Jewell has been known to check it out from 
time 
> to
> > > time, especially, shall we say, in times of stress. I'm not 
> claiming
> > > that the board has the undivided attention of Yamaha's 
> management;
> > > it's definitely well on the peripery. But it does have a 
> presence,  and
> > > our recent telephone foray into the hierarchy has given it
> > > renewed notoriety. I doubt very much that the vdrums forum has
> > > anywhere near the contact with Roland that this one has with 
> Yamaha.
> > >
> > > The Yahoo board is now 600 strong. If there's an exodus, some 
> people
> > > will undoubtedly stay behind. I don't know how many, but it 
> always
> > > happens. That will mean that the membership of 600 will get 
> diluted.
> > > Some of us would like to see this group, or whatever group 
takes 
> its
> > > place, become even more significant in Yamaha's e-drum plans. 
If
> > > that is ever to happen, the numbers will matter. Also, the 
more 
> we
> > > become a moving target, the less chance we may have to 
solidify 
> our
> > > position.  Would it be unthinkable for Yamaha to search out a 
new
> > > group if it forms, or to file the new web address away 
somewhere 
> in
> > > case they want to check it out? No, but I'm not sure that even 
so
> > > seemingly innocuous a change as a splintered board wouldn't be 
an
> > > excuse for them to lose any interest that they might have now. 
> As I
> > > said, we're on the periphery. These are delicate times for e-
> drums,
> > > especially Yamaha, which has discontinued two of its three 
> lines. I
> > > would like to see this group become a testing ground of sorts 
for
> > > Yamaha's ideas. I don't know if it will happen, but I don't 
want 
> to
> > > risk anything that might diffuse its input. As a related case 
in
> > > point, we managed to get Visu-lite, a small company, to make a
> > > product solely for owners of Yamaha modules. This was no meant 
> feat,
> > > and it happened, in part, because we could point to a large 
> number  of
> > > possibly interested people in one place who would become aware 
> of  it
> > > in one fell swoop.
> > >
> > > Your proposal is enormously tempting, but I think these points
> > > should be taken into consideration.
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >
> > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> 
> wrote:
> > >> Just turn OFF HTML when reading your messages. It makes it 
> (barely)
> > >> bearable. :)
> > >>
> > >> I've been thinking about adding a mailing list or message 
board 
> to
> > > the
> > >> DTXpressions.com website to offer up as a replacement since 
I'm
> > > not a big
> > >> fan of Yahoo anyway... How many of you think the embedded ads 
> are
> > >> intrusive enough to justify a move?
> > >>
> > >> Vern
> > >>
> > >> PS: to see a prototype of the message base I'm talking about, 
go
> > > here:
> > >>
> > >> http://www.dtxpressions.com/phpbb
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then 
> you're
> > >> Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why 
are 
> we
> > >> Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the 
> network
> > >> vern@t... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
> > >> Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" 
> VLG
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> hairytrigger said:
> > >> > Yes, I get those messages too. Lately, a long, horizontal 
one 

> is
> > >> covering the text.Somebody screwed something up.
> > >> > Scott
> > >> >
> > >> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "leffelejon" <gadda@k...> 
> wrote:
> > >> >> Anyone else get those advertisments all over the text in
> > > messages?
> > >> >> Its really annoying
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Community email addresses:
> > >> >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> > >> >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> > >> >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> > >> >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> > >> >
> > >> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> > >> >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> > >> >
> > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > >> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > > Community email addresses:
> > >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> > >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> > >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> > >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> > >
> > > Shortcut URL to this page:
> > >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Vern,

Can you participate in this forum you propose entirely through email?
I looked at it and it seems that it's set up so that you must use your
browser and be logged in to participate.



____________________________

Jim

It works by sending email notification when someone replies to a post you
make. You then click the enclosed link to take your browser to the web
board and read the thread. I also have a true mailing list program that
can allow the entire thing to be done through email if that would be
preferable. I can also make a WIKI web if the group would like that. To
see a WIKI in action go here:

http://www.kim-1.com/wiki

A WIKI is pretty neat since anyone who visits can edit the site, add
pages and such. To see a WIKI in use on a regular basis go here:

http://www.robotgroup.net

I host both of the above btw. :) Anyway, I'd be happy to shape the forum
any way people here think it should be shaped.. :)

Vern

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the network
vern@... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG



Ratzo said:

> Vern,
>
> Can you participate in this forum you propose entirely through email? I
> looked at it and it seems that it's set up so that you must use your
> browser and be logged in to participate.
>
>
>
> ____________________________
>
> Jim
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hi all
I think its a great idea to have a more proffesional forum. If Vern 
is willing to atttribute with his time ,knowledge and host the site 
i can only see advantages. I have visited the site and it looks 
great. I think the folks at yamaha only will consider "us" more 
serious when they see that site... it would be easier for all to 
navigate in the messages, for them too. And maybe if we can get 
people from other yamaha dtx groups aswell then we all would be 
joining in the same place sharing our knowledge.

I think that many members dislike the yahoo layout with advertisment 
and the structure of the whole message board. So i think that a lot 
of members would show up more frequently at the new site. I can only 
see advantages in this, and its really great of vern to contribute 
this way son i think we all should be thankful for that and join the 
other site :=)

Well thats my thoughts.... i hope you all understood what i was 
saying because im not so good at english since its not my primary 
language.


Andreas

Guys...in light of Ed's comments...I have only one
word for Ed's responsa-and that is AMEN!!!  I am
LIVING PROOF that Yamaha LISTENS and OBSERVES this
forum.  WE ARE KNOWN TO those who work at Yamaha-and
those folks have CLOUT!!  To dilute ourselves would be
shooting ourselves in the foot-I for one will stay in
this forum-are adds annoying? Yes! Constantly having
to log in a pain? Yes!  But this forums deals with
YAMAHA modules and e drums-it is one voice that has
come to my rescue, and one voice who has the attention
of Yamaha's ear!
Jade
--- liberatusvirus <liberatusvirus@...> wrote:
> Vern,
> 
> Your proposed alternative to the Yahoo board would
> undoubtedly be an 
> improvement in many important respects. It's much
> more along the 
> lines of the unofficial vdrums forum, which is a
> very informative, 
> and classy setup. My sole concern is this: Yamaha is
> aware of this 
> group. Just months after it was established in late
> 1999, it 
> achieved a certain credibility with the company
> because of the 
> intelligent questions and comments that emanated
> from it. 
> Apparently, Dave Jewell has been known to check it
> out from time to 
> time, especially, shall we say, in times of stress.
> I'm not claiming 
> that the board has the undivided attention of
> Yamaha's management; 
> it's definitely well on the peripery. But it does
> have a presence, 
> and our recent telephone foray into the hierarchy
> has given it 
> renewed notoriety. I doubt very much that the vdrums
> forum has 
> anywhere near the contact with Roland that this one
> has with Yamaha. 
> 
> The Yahoo board is now 600 strong. If there's an
> exodus, some people 
> will undoubtedly stay behind. I don't know how many,
> but it always 
> happens. That will mean that the membership of 600
> will get diluted. 
> Some of us would like to see this group, or whatever
> group takes its 
> place, become even more significant in Yamaha's
> e-drum plans. If 
> that is ever to happen, the numbers will matter.
> Also, the more we 
> become a moving target, the less chance we may have
> to solidify our 
> position.  Would it be unthinkable for Yamaha to
> search out a new 
> group if it forms, or to file the new web address
> away somewhere in 
> case they want to check it out? No, but I'm not sure
> that even so 
> seemingly innocuous a change as a splintered board
> wouldn't be an 
> excuse for them to lose any interest that they might
> have now. As I 
> said, we're on the periphery. These are delicate
> times for e-drums, 
> especially Yamaha, which has discontinued two of its
> three lines. I 
> would like to see this group become a testing ground
> of sorts for 
> Yamaha's ideas. I don't know if it will happen, but
> I don't want to 
> risk anything that might diffuse its input. As a
> related case in 
> point, we managed to get Visu-lite, a small company,
> to make a 
> product solely for owners of Yamaha modules. This
> was no meant feat, 
> and it happened, in part, because we could point to
> a large number 
> of possibly interested people in one place who would
> become aware of 
> it in one fell swoop. 
> 
> Your proposal is enormously tempting, but I think
> these points 
> should be taken into consideration.
> 
> Ed
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner"
> <vern@t...> wrote:
> > Just turn OFF HTML when reading your messages. It
> makes it (barely)
> > bearable. :)
> > 
> > I've been thinking about adding a mailing list or
> message board to 
> the
> > DTXpressions.com website to offer up as a
> replacement since I'm 
> not a big
> > fan of Yahoo anyway... How many of you think the
> embedded ads are
> > intrusive enough to justify a move?
> > 
> > Vern
> > 
> > PS: to see a prototype of the message base I'm
> talking about, go 
> here:
> > 
> > http://www.dtxpressions.com/phpbb
> > 
> > -- 
> > Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is
> down, then you're
> > Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously
> incompetent so why are we
> > Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of
> course, if the network
> > vern@t... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously
> don't need
> > Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we
> paying you?" VLG
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > hairytrigger said:
> > > Yes, I get those messages too. Lately, a long,
> horizontal one is
> > > covering the text.Somebody screwed something up.
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "leffelejon"
> <gadda@k...> wrote:
> > >> Anyone else get those advertisments all over
> the text in 
> messages?
> > >> Its really annoying
> > >
> > >
> > > Community email addresses:
> > >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> > >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> > >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> > >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> > >
> > > Shortcut URL to this page:
> > >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
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Hi Jade, I do agree and there is no way I would contribute to some type
of splitting of the power of the group. Thats why I responded as I did
before and why I want to see if the users here would help in crafting a
solution to move the board up to a more professional level. To be honest,
if there is no consensus, I'm just gunna stay with the status quo as I
can stand Yahoo if I have to, this group is too valuable as a resource
for all involved. I am just tyring to offer to move us up a level to
something a bit more professional. I won't repeat the other long winded
post, but I am interested in feedback from all of the users since this
will be about serving the entire community.

If you haaven't looked yet, I invite you to visit the prototype
domain/group I have set up here:

http://www.dtxpressions.com/phpbb

and the main site here:

http://www.dtxpressions.com

and let me know what you think of it. :)

Vern

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the network
vern@... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG



Jade said:

> Guys...in light of Ed's comments...I have only one
> word for Ed's responsa-and that is AMEN!!!  I am
> LIVING PROOF that Yamaha LISTENS and OBSERVES this
> forum.  WE ARE KNOWN TO those who work at Yamaha-and
> those folks have CLOUT!!  To dilute ourselves would be
> shooting ourselves in the foot-I for one will stay in
> this forum-are adds annoying? Yes! Constantly having
> to log in a pain? Yes!  But this forums deals with
> YAMAHA modules and e drums-it is one voice that has
> come to my rescue, and one voice who has the attention
> of Yamaha's ear!
> Jade
> --- liberatusvirus <liberatusvirus@...> wrote:
>> Vern,
>>
>> Your proposed alternative to the Yahoo board would
>> undoubtedly be an
>> improvement in many important respects. It's much
>> more along the
>> lines of the unofficial vdrums forum, which is a
>> very informative,
>> and classy setup. My sole concern is this: Yamaha is
>> aware of this
>> group. Just months after it was established in late
>> 1999, it
>> achieved a certain credibility with the company
>> because of the
>> intelligent questions and comments that emanated
>> from it.
>> Apparently, Dave Jewell has been known to check it
>> out from time to
>> time, especially, shall we say, in times of stress.
>> I'm not claiming
>> that the board has the undivided attention of
>> Yamaha's management;
>> it's definitely well on the peripery. But it does
>> have a presence,
>> and our recent telephone foray into the hierarchy
>> has given it
>> renewed notoriety. I doubt very much that the vdrums
>> forum has
>> anywhere near the contact with Roland that this one
>> has with Yamaha.
>>
>> The Yahoo board is now 600 strong. If there's an
>> exodus, some people
>> will undoubtedly stay behind. I don't know how many,
>> but it always
>> happens. That will mean that the membership of 600
>> will get diluted.
>> Some of us would like to see this group, or whatever
>> group takes its
>> place, become even more significant in Yamaha's
>> e-drum plans. If
>> that is ever to happen, the numbers will matter.
>> Also, the more we
>> become a moving target, the less chance we may have
>> to solidify our
>> position.  Would it be unthinkable for Yamaha to
>> search out a new
>> group if it forms, or to file the new web address
>> away somewhere in
>> case they want to check it out? No, but I'm not sure
>> that even so
>> seemingly innocuous a change as a splintered board
>> wouldn't be an
>> excuse for them to lose any interest that they might
>> have now. As I
>> said, we're on the periphery. These are delicate
>> times for e-drums,
>> especially Yamaha, which has discontinued two of its
>> three lines. I
>> would like to see this group become a testing ground
>> of sorts for
>> Yamaha's ideas. I don't know if it will happen, but
>> I don't want to
>> risk anything that might diffuse its input. As a
>> related case in
>> point, we managed to get Visu-lite, a small company,
>> to make a
>> product solely for owners of Yamaha modules. This
>> was no meant feat,
>> and it happened, in part, because we could point to
>> a large number
>> of possibly interested people in one place who would
>> become aware of
>> it in one fell swoop.
>>
>> Your proposal is enormously tempting, but I think
>> these points
>> should be taken into consideration.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner"
>> <vern@t...> wrote:
>> > Just turn OFF HTML when reading your messages. It
>> makes it (barely)
>> > bearable. :)
>> >
>> > I've been thinking about adding a mailing list or
>> message board to
>> the
>> > DTXpressions.com website to offer up as a
>> replacement since I'm
>> not a big
>> > fan of Yahoo anyway... How many of you think the
>> embedded ads are
>> > intrusive enough to justify a move?
>> >
>> > Vern
>> >
>> > PS: to see a prototype of the message base I'm
>> talking about, go
>> here:
>> >
>> > http://www.dtxpressions.com/phpbb
>> >
>> > --
>> > Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is
>> down, then you're
>> > Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously
>> incompetent so why are we
>> > Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of
>> course, if the network
>> > vern@t... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously
>> don't need
>> > Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we
>> paying you?" VLG
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > hairytrigger said:
>> > > Yes, I get those messages too. Lately, a long,
>> horizontal one is
>> > > covering the text.Somebody screwed something up.
>> > > Scott
>> > >
>> > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "leffelejon"
>> <gadda@k...> wrote:
>> > >> Anyone else get those advertisments all over
>> the text in
>> messages?
>> > >> Its really annoying
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Community email addresses:
>> > >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
>> > >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
>> > >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>> > >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
>> > >
>> > > Shortcut URL to this page:
>> > >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
>> > >
>> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

I like this lay out..it is very similar to the
computer forum I belong to.  I am just worried that
this group may split in two-we should ALL move
together, or all STAY together.  Who will be running
this group on the new layout?  I really don't want it
resting on one person's shoulders, as things happen in
life, and if your personal situation changes, and you
can't devote anymore time to this forum, would we be
hurt, would it fold? Or is this gonna be pretty much
on it's own, not needing constant moderating by the
administrator?  I just want to be able to rely on the
consistency of the DTX group, these guys in this Yahoo
forum have pulled me out of the gutter many times.  I
will go with the consensus, and I think we should run
a poll for a few weeks, and go from there. I REALLY
like your lay out.  It is very orderly and easy to
work with.  Thanks for your ideas and
contributions...if it all works out, we can let Dave
Jewell and Dave Kscyki @ Yamaha know where we moved
the forum, as they monitor it from time to time.  Any
help I might be able to give you if the group decides
to move, let me know...but I would like the WHOLE
group to move-yahoo would no longer be associated
w/the DTX forum.
Jade
--- Vernon Graner <vern@...> wrote:
> Hi Jade, I do agree and there is no way I would
> contribute to some type
> of splitting of the power of the group. Thats why I
> responded as I did
> before and why I want to see if the users here would
> help in crafting a
> solution to move the board up to a more professional
> level. To be honest,
> if there is no consensus, I'm just gunna stay with
> the status quo as I
> can stand Yahoo if I have to, this group is too
> valuable as a resource
> for all involved. I am just tyring to offer to move
> us up a level to
> something a bit more professional. I won't repeat
> the other long winded
> post, but I am interested in feedback from all of
> the users since this
> will be about serving the entire community.
> 
> If you haaven't looked yet, I invite you to visit
> the prototype
> domain/group I have set up here:
> 
> http://www.dtxpressions.com/phpbb
> 
> and the main site here:
> 
> http://www.dtxpressions.com
> 
> and let me know what you think of it. :)
> 
> Vern
> 
> -- 
> Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is
> down, then you're
> Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent
> so why are we
> Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course,
> if the network
> vern@... www.txis.com  | is up, then we
> obviously don't need
> Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we
> paying you?" VLG
> 
> 
> 
> Jade said:
> > Guys...in light of Ed's comments...I have only one
> > word for Ed's responsa-and that is AMEN!!!  I am
> > LIVING PROOF that Yamaha LISTENS and OBSERVES this
> > forum.  WE ARE KNOWN TO those who work at
> Yamaha-and
> > those folks have CLOUT!!  To dilute ourselves
> would be
> > shooting ourselves in the foot-I for one will stay
> in
> > this forum-are adds annoying? Yes! Constantly
> having
> > to log in a pain? Yes!  But this forums deals with
> > YAMAHA modules and e drums-it is one voice that
> has
> > come to my rescue, and one voice who has the
> attention
> > of Yamaha's ear!
> > Jade
> > --- liberatusvirus <liberatusvirus@...>
> wrote:
> >> Vern,
> >>
> >> Your proposed alternative to the Yahoo board
> would
> >> undoubtedly be an
> >> improvement in many important respects. It's much
> >> more along the
> >> lines of the unofficial vdrums forum, which is a
> >> very informative,
> >> and classy setup. My sole concern is this: Yamaha
> is
> >> aware of this
> >> group. Just months after it was established in
> late
> >> 1999, it
> >> achieved a certain credibility with the company
> >> because of the
> >> intelligent questions and comments that emanated
> >> from it.
> >> Apparently, Dave Jewell has been known to check
> it
> >> out from time to
> >> time, especially, shall we say, in times of
> stress.
> >> I'm not claiming
> >> that the board has the undivided attention of
> >> Yamaha's management;
> >> it's definitely well on the peripery. But it does
> >> have a presence,
> >> and our recent telephone foray into the hierarchy
> >> has given it
> >> renewed notoriety. I doubt very much that the
> vdrums
> >> forum has
> >> anywhere near the contact with Roland that this
> one
> >> has with Yamaha.
> >>
> >> The Yahoo board is now 600 strong. If there's an
> >> exodus, some people
> >> will undoubtedly stay behind. I don't know how
> many,
> >> but it always
> >> happens. That will mean that the membership of
> 600
> >> will get diluted.
> >> Some of us would like to see this group, or
> whatever
> >> group takes its
> >> place, become even more significant in Yamaha's
> >> e-drum plans. If
> >> that is ever to happen, the numbers will matter.
> >> Also, the more we
> >> become a moving target, the less chance we may
> have
> >> to solidify our
> >> position.  Would it be unthinkable for Yamaha to
> >> search out a new
> >> group if it forms, or to file the new web address
> >> away somewhere in
> >> case they want to check it out? No, but I'm not
> sure
> >> that even so
> >> seemingly innocuous a change as a splintered
> board
> >> wouldn't be an
> >> excuse for them to lose any interest that they
> might
> >> have now. As I
> >> said, we're on the periphery. These are delicate
> >> times for e-drums,
> >> especially Yamaha, which has discontinued two of
> its
> >> three lines. I
> >> would like to see this group become a testing
> ground
> >> of sorts for
> >> Yamaha's ideas. I don't know if it will happen,
> but
> >> I don't want to
> >> risk anything that might diffuse its input. As a
> >> related case in
> >> point, we managed to get Visu-lite, a small
> company,
> >> to make a
> >> product solely for owners of Yamaha modules. This
> >> was no meant feat,
> >> and it happened, in part, because we could point
> to
> >> a large number
> >> of possibly interested people in one place who
> would
> >> become aware of
> >> it in one fell swoop.
> >>
> >> Your proposal is enormously tempting, but I think
> >> these points
> >> should be taken into consideration.
> >>
> >> Ed
> >>
> >> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner"
> >> <vern@t...> wrote:
> >> > Just turn OFF HTML when reading your messages.
> It
> >> makes it (barely)
> >> > bearable. :)
> >> >
> >> > I've been thinking about adding a mailing list
> or
> >> message board to
> >> the
> >> > DTXpressions.com website to offer up as a
> >> replacement since I'm
> >> not a big
> >> > fan of Yahoo anyway... How many of you think
> the
> >> embedded ads are
> >> > intrusive enough to justify a move?
> >> >
> >> > Vern
> >> >
> >> > PS: to see a prototype of the message base I'm
> >> talking about, go
> >> here:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.dtxpressions.com/phpbb
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network
> is
> >> down, then you're
> 
=== message truncated ===


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
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