Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

> Steve,
>
> I'd be really surprised if the Xtreme module sampled at a 24 bit
> rate. I've never seen a number for it, but I always assumed that it
> was 16 bit as well. The Alesis DM Pro is the highest that I've seen--
> 20 bit--and the DM5 is at 18.

Ok, gunna dust off some old memories here... Prepare to be
dazed^H^H^H^H^H Dazzled! :)

Sample *width* (i.e. 8 bit, 16 bit) determines the *dynamic range* of the
recorded sound. The sample *frequency* (i.e. 11khz, 22khz 44khz)
determines the *frequency response* of the captured sound. So, a 16 bit
sample would have less *dynamic range* (distance from noise floor to
maximum loudness i.e. ppp->FFF) than a 20 or 24 bit sample.

Some rough examples:

A sample of a cymbal crash done in 8 bit width , 44.1khz sample rate
would give you a dynamic resolution of 256 "loudness" levels and would
record 22.5 khz as the highest frequency. This would probably produce a
reasonably good sounding sample.

So, lets capture the same *amount* of data, but rearrange how we allocate
the space by doubling the dynamic range and halving the frequency
response:

A sample of a cymbal crash done in 16 bit width , 22khz sample rate would
give you a dynamic resolution of 64,000 "loudness" levels and would
record 11 khz as the highest frequency. This would probably produce a
very bad sounding sample.

So, lets capture again, but this time boost that 16 bit to 24 bit:

A sample of a cymbal crash done in 24 bit width , 44.1khz sample rate
would give you a dynamic resolution of 16,000,000 "loudness" levels and
would record 22 khz as the highest frequency. This would probably produce
a very good sounding cymbal.

This would result in a similar sounding, but MUCH larger sample size
since the amount of data collected would be enormous! Remember, its a
combination of the *two* parameters, sample rate and bit depth that
determine a samples quality. Of course, they in turn determine the SIZE
of the stored sample.

As you increase the bit width, you not only increase the amount of memory
required to store the sample, you also increase the overhead required to
manipulate that data. (i.e. CPU speed, bus width to move the data, RAM to
store it in, DAC (Digital to Analog Converters) units to turn the data
into sound, etc).

Anyway, where I'm going with this is that you might not see a big
difference if you auditioned the *same sample* as a 16 bit or as a 24 bit
sound. In many cases, since they use new samples to make these kits, it's
usually not so much the bit width that makes the difference, but the
freshness of the samples to your ear. After you've heard the same samples
for a number of months from the same old module, oftimes *any* new sample
sounds better, even if (from a technical perspective) it's actually not
*better*, just different.

From my perspective, I would be hard pressed to determine the difference
between a 16 bit and a 20 bit sample, unless I could see the amount of
disk space it was consuming.. :)

Vern

PS: I changes the subject line since the discussion was being
relentlessly dragged off topic by some inconsiderate.... uh.. hmm never
mind. :)

--
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE     | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer     | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services  | paying you? Of course, if the network
vern@... www.txis.com  | is up, then we obviously don't need
Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG



liberatusvirus said:
> Steve,
>
> I'd be really surprised if the Xtreme module sampled at a 24 bit
> rate. I've never seen a number for it, but I always assumed that it
> was 16 bit as well. The Alesis DM Pro is the highest that I've seen--
> 20 bit--and the DM5 is at 18. I don't think that the Rolands top
> that, and, if I'm not mistaken, the DTXTU is older than the TD8 and
> TD10, as well as the Alesises. Somebody out there may know for sure.
> The new Yamaha module(s?)will undoubtedly improve on the old bit
> rate. By the way, the DTXpress II will accept woven head pads from
> Pintech, Roland, and maybe Hart, just in case you thought that
> Yamaha's higher end (which were mylar out of the box) would have
> been the only option. The Pintechs are especially cost effective.
>
> Ed
>
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> wrote:
>> Thanks Ed for your reply.
>>
>> I'm alway's the last to know! "LOL"
>>
>> Yes, I've been seeing the kits at Musician's Friend.com (No more)&
>> at Drum World.com (I think still selling).
>>
>> So I guess the gum rubber pads will only be avaialable for the DTX-
>> press II kit's.
>>
>> I have the original DTX-press kit. Have added some double trigger
>> drum & symbal pads to upgrade my kit.
>>
>> I was thinking about buying a DTXtreme module to upgrade the
> sounds
>> and sample rate for my kit as the DTXpress is only 16 bit. I
> thought
>> I heard that the DTXtreme was 24 bit sample rate.
>>
>> I'm wondering about the sample rate of the newest top of the line
>> brain?
>>
>> I'm thinking I don't need to upgrade my drum pads because I only
> use
>> my drums for Cubase recordings & like I've said, pads have been
>> added. But I think it's time to get better quality drum samples at
>> higher sample rates for my set up.
>>
>> Thanks again, Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus"
>> <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
>> > Steve,
>> >
>> > The midlevel DTX gum rubber kit and its DTX2U module have been
>> discontinued for some time now. The top of the line DTXtreme kit
>> and
>> > module (DTXTU)breathed its last at the beginning of the year.
>> Stores
>> > like MF, Riks Music, etc., were advertising closeouts on it
> until
>> > pretty recently with heavy discounts, but supplies have
> dwindled.
>> > Yamaha apparently would have issued new product to replace it
>> already, but they ran into a licensing problem with the new
>> module.
>> > Expect something to emerge late this summer.
>> >
>> > Ed
>> >
>> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...>
>> wrote:
>> > > I see that some of Yamaha's higher-end electric sets & modules
>> are
>> > > being discontinued and/or are not being advertised on places
>> like
>> > > Musician's Friend.
>> > >
>> > > Are they slimming down? Are they making way for more advanced
>> designs to compete with Roland's V-sets?
>> > >
>> > > Yamaha's site say's "Comming Soon" on their electronic drum
> page!
>> > >
>> > > What's up with that?
>> > >
>> > > Steve
>
>
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