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2003-04-19 by zapaxe
I see that some of Yamaha's higher-end electric sets & modules are being discontinued and/or are not being advertised on places like Musician's Friend. Are they slimming down? Are they making way for more advanced designs to compete with Roland's V-sets? Yamaha's site say's "Comming Soon" on their electronic drum page! What's up with that? Steve
2003-04-19 by liberatusvirus
Steve, The midlevel DTX gum rubber kit and its DTX2U module have been discontinued for some time now. The top of the line DTXtreme kit and module (DTXTU)breathed its last at the beginning of the year. Stores like MF, Riks Music, etc., were advertising closeouts on it until pretty recently with heavy discounts, but supplies have dwindled. Yamaha apparently would have issued new product to replace it already, but they ran into a licensing problem with the new module. Expect something to emerge late this summer. Ed --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> wrote:
> I see that some of Yamaha's higher-end electric sets & modules are > being discontinued and/or are not being advertised on places like > Musician's Friend. > > Are they slimming down? Are they making way for more advanced > designs to compete with Roland's V-sets? > > Yamaha's site say's "Comming Soon" on their electronic drum page! > > What's up with that? > > Steve
2003-04-23 by zapaxe
Thanks Ed for your reply. I'm alway's the last to know! "LOL" Yes, I've been seeing the kits at Musician's Friend.com (No more)& at Drum World.com (I think still selling). So I guess the gum rubber pads will only be avaialable for the DTX- press II kit's. I have the original DTX-press kit. Have added some double trigger drum & symbal pads to upgrade my kit. I was thinking about buying a DTXtreme module to upgrade the sounds and sample rate for my kit as the DTXpress is only 16 bit. I thought I heard that the DTXtreme was 24 bit sample rate. I'm wondering about the sample rate of the newest top of the line brain? I'm thinking I don't need to upgrade my drum pads because I only use my drums for Cubase recordings & like I've said, pads have been added. But I think it's time to get better quality drum samples at higher sample rates for my set up. Thanks again, Steve --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote: > Steve, > > The midlevel DTX gum rubber kit and its DTX2U module have been > discontinued for some time now. The top of the line DTXtreme kit and > module (DTXTU)breathed its last at the beginning of the year. Stores > like MF, Riks Music, etc., were advertising closeouts on it until > pretty recently with heavy discounts, but supplies have dwindled. > Yamaha apparently would have issued new product to replace it > already, but they ran into a licensing problem with the new module. > Expect something to emerge late this summer. > > Ed > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> wrote: > > I see that some of Yamaha's higher-end electric sets & modules are > > being discontinued and/or are not being advertised on places like
> > Musician's Friend. > > > > Are they slimming down? Are they making way for more advanced > > designs to compete with Roland's V-sets? > > > > Yamaha's site say's "Comming Soon" on their electronic drum page! > > > > What's up with that? > > > > Steve
2003-04-23 by liberatusvirus
Steve, I'd be really surprised if the Xtreme module sampled at a 24 bit rate. I've never seen a number for it, but I always assumed that it was 16 bit as well. The Alesis DM Pro is the highest that I've seen-- 20 bit--and the DM5 is at 18. I don't think that the Rolands top that, and, if I'm not mistaken, the DTXTU is older than the TD8 and TD10, as well as the Alesises. Somebody out there may know for sure. The new Yamaha module(s?)will undoubtedly improve on the old bit rate. By the way, the DTXpress II will accept woven head pads from Pintech, Roland, and maybe Hart, just in case you thought that Yamaha's higher end (which were mylar out of the box) would have been the only option. The Pintechs are especially cost effective. Ed --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> wrote: > Thanks Ed for your reply. > > I'm alway's the last to know! "LOL" > > Yes, I've been seeing the kits at Musician's Friend.com (No more)& > at Drum World.com (I think still selling). > > So I guess the gum rubber pads will only be avaialable for the DTX- > press II kit's. > > I have the original DTX-press kit. Have added some double trigger > drum & symbal pads to upgrade my kit. > > I was thinking about buying a DTXtreme module to upgrade the sounds > and sample rate for my kit as the DTXpress is only 16 bit. I thought > I heard that the DTXtreme was 24 bit sample rate. > > I'm wondering about the sample rate of the newest top of the line > brain? > > I'm thinking I don't need to upgrade my drum pads because I only use > my drums for Cubase recordings & like I've said, pads have been > added. But I think it's time to get better quality drum samples at > higher sample rates for my set up. > > Thanks again, Steve > > > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus" > <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote: > > Steve, > > > > The midlevel DTX gum rubber kit and its DTX2U module have been > > discontinued for some time now. The top of the line DTXtreme kit > and > > module (DTXTU)breathed its last at the beginning of the year. > Stores > > like MF, Riks Music, etc., were advertising closeouts on it until > > pretty recently with heavy discounts, but supplies have dwindled. > > Yamaha apparently would have issued new product to replace it > > already, but they ran into a licensing problem with the new > module. > > Expect something to emerge late this summer. > > > > Ed > > > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> > wrote: > > > I see that some of Yamaha's higher-end electric sets & modules > are > > > being discontinued and/or are not being advertised on places > like > > > Musician's Friend. > > > > > > Are they slimming down? Are they making way for more advanced > > > designs to compete with Roland's V-sets? > > > > > > Yamaha's site say's "Comming Soon" on their electronic drum page!
> > > > > > What's up with that? > > > > > > Steve
2003-04-23 by Vernon Graner
> Steve, > > I'd be really surprised if the Xtreme module sampled at a 24 bit > rate. I've never seen a number for it, but I always assumed that it > was 16 bit as well. The Alesis DM Pro is the highest that I've seen-- > 20 bit--and the DM5 is at 18. Ok, gunna dust off some old memories here... Prepare to be dazed^H^H^H^H^H Dazzled! :) Sample *width* (i.e. 8 bit, 16 bit) determines the *dynamic range* of the recorded sound. The sample *frequency* (i.e. 11khz, 22khz 44khz) determines the *frequency response* of the captured sound. So, a 16 bit sample would have less *dynamic range* (distance from noise floor to maximum loudness i.e. ppp->FFF) than a 20 or 24 bit sample. Some rough examples: A sample of a cymbal crash done in 8 bit width , 44.1khz sample rate would give you a dynamic resolution of 256 "loudness" levels and would record 22.5 khz as the highest frequency. This would probably produce a reasonably good sounding sample. So, lets capture the same *amount* of data, but rearrange how we allocate the space by doubling the dynamic range and halving the frequency response: A sample of a cymbal crash done in 16 bit width , 22khz sample rate would give you a dynamic resolution of 64,000 "loudness" levels and would record 11 khz as the highest frequency. This would probably produce a very bad sounding sample. So, lets capture again, but this time boost that 16 bit to 24 bit: A sample of a cymbal crash done in 24 bit width , 44.1khz sample rate would give you a dynamic resolution of 16,000,000 "loudness" levels and would record 22 khz as the highest frequency. This would probably produce a very good sounding cymbal. This would result in a similar sounding, but MUCH larger sample size since the amount of data collected would be enormous! Remember, its a combination of the *two* parameters, sample rate and bit depth that determine a samples quality. Of course, they in turn determine the SIZE of the stored sample. As you increase the bit width, you not only increase the amount of memory required to store the sample, you also increase the overhead required to manipulate that data. (i.e. CPU speed, bus width to move the data, RAM to store it in, DAC (Digital to Analog Converters) units to turn the data into sound, etc). Anyway, where I'm going with this is that you might not see a big difference if you auditioned the *same sample* as a 16 bit or as a 24 bit sound. In many cases, since they use new samples to make these kits, it's usually not so much the bit width that makes the difference, but the freshness of the samples to your ear. After you've heard the same samples for a number of months from the same old module, oftimes *any* new sample sounds better, even if (from a technical perspective) it's actually not *better*, just different. From my perspective, I would be hard pressed to determine the difference between a 16 bit and a 20 bit sample, unless I could see the amount of disk space it was consuming.. :) Vern PS: I changes the subject line since the discussion was being relentlessly dragged off topic by some inconsiderate.... uh.. hmm never mind. :) -- Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE | "If the network is down, then you're Senior Systems Engineer | obviously incompetent so why are we Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network vern@... www.txis.com | is up, then we obviously don't need Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG liberatusvirus said:
> Steve, > > I'd be really surprised if the Xtreme module sampled at a 24 bit > rate. I've never seen a number for it, but I always assumed that it > was 16 bit as well. The Alesis DM Pro is the highest that I've seen-- > 20 bit--and the DM5 is at 18. I don't think that the Rolands top > that, and, if I'm not mistaken, the DTXTU is older than the TD8 and > TD10, as well as the Alesises. Somebody out there may know for sure. > The new Yamaha module(s?)will undoubtedly improve on the old bit > rate. By the way, the DTXpress II will accept woven head pads from > Pintech, Roland, and maybe Hart, just in case you thought that > Yamaha's higher end (which were mylar out of the box) would have > been the only option. The Pintechs are especially cost effective. > > Ed > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> wrote: >> Thanks Ed for your reply. >> >> I'm alway's the last to know! "LOL" >> >> Yes, I've been seeing the kits at Musician's Friend.com (No more)& >> at Drum World.com (I think still selling). >> >> So I guess the gum rubber pads will only be avaialable for the DTX- >> press II kit's. >> >> I have the original DTX-press kit. Have added some double trigger >> drum & symbal pads to upgrade my kit. >> >> I was thinking about buying a DTXtreme module to upgrade the > sounds >> and sample rate for my kit as the DTXpress is only 16 bit. I > thought >> I heard that the DTXtreme was 24 bit sample rate. >> >> I'm wondering about the sample rate of the newest top of the line >> brain? >> >> I'm thinking I don't need to upgrade my drum pads because I only > use >> my drums for Cubase recordings & like I've said, pads have been >> added. But I think it's time to get better quality drum samples at >> higher sample rates for my set up. >> >> Thanks again, Steve >> >> >> >> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus" >> <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote: >> > Steve, >> > >> > The midlevel DTX gum rubber kit and its DTX2U module have been >> discontinued for some time now. The top of the line DTXtreme kit >> and >> > module (DTXTU)breathed its last at the beginning of the year. >> Stores >> > like MF, Riks Music, etc., were advertising closeouts on it > until >> > pretty recently with heavy discounts, but supplies have > dwindled. >> > Yamaha apparently would have issued new product to replace it >> already, but they ran into a licensing problem with the new >> module. >> > Expect something to emerge late this summer. >> > >> > Ed >> > >> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> >> wrote: >> > > I see that some of Yamaha's higher-end electric sets & modules >> are >> > > being discontinued and/or are not being advertised on places >> like >> > > Musician's Friend. >> > > >> > > Are they slimming down? Are they making way for more advanced >> designs to compete with Roland's V-sets? >> > > >> > > Yamaha's site say's "Comming Soon" on their electronic drum > page! >> > > >> > > What's up with that? >> > > >> > > Steve > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or > We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/AG3JAA/kkLolB/TM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > Community email addresses: > Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com > Subscribe: DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com > Unsubscribe: DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com > List owner: DTXpress-owner@onelist.com > > Shortcut URL to this page: > http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2003-04-23 by liberatusvirus
Vern, Good stuff and points well-taken. On a fairly level playing field, most of us are not going to hear much difference between 16 bits and 20 bits, depending on the application. But anyone who's followed the evolution of the CD player from its inception to its current 24 bit/96khz (and considerably higher) incarnation knows that the change has been dramatic and that the variables in the digital domain have some importance. CD's earliest hype as "perfect sound forever" was a complete fiasco, especially when compared to solid analog performance at the time; CDs started out as cold and harsh. Somewhere along the line, they began to approximate what midlevel analog could achieve, but it took time. Even if the difference from 16 to 20 bits isn't audible under ordinary conditions, the difference between 8 bits or even 16 at 44khz to true 24 bits at 96khz might well be worth pursuing. I happen to think that a higher bit width, along with as high a sampling rate as possible, would be a good thing in drum modules, assuming that the samples themselves are up to snuff. Cymbals and drums (especially snares) require a wide frequency response and dynamic range to sound authentic. An extreme dearth results in the dreaded machine-gun effect, from which not even the vaunted dtxpress is totally immune, with its 16 bits and 44khz sampling. On an acoustic snare, you can roll tightly on the sides of the drum and get a specific response; at no point does the sound drop out completely. On an electronic snare, the piezo and its positioning have a lot to do with the response, but the module contributes much to the tonality and the faithfulness of the percussive effect. The better the digital specs, the better are the chances that the sound will be satisfying. Drummers have a hard-won expectation of drums' sound according to how and where they hit them. Electronic drums have moved way past the disappointing stage into the "not bad at all" stage. Theoretically, human hearing encompasses from about 20hz to 20khz-- that is, if you're a newborn baby who hasn't been exposed to the vicissitudes of modern life and the onslaught of age. My decrepit middle-aged hearing, battered further by 40 years of drumming, probably taps out at about 14 to 16khz on a good day, and the last time I tried, I got at least a hint of 20hz, but I still think that a brick wall DAC at 20 or even 22khz is not heard as natural sound, with all its ghostly presence, though it's pretty damn good. Ed --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> wrote: > > Steve, > > > > I'd be really surprised if the Xtreme module sampled at a 24 bit > > rate. I've never seen a number for it, but I always assumed that it > > was 16 bit as well. The Alesis DM Pro is the highest that I've seen-- > > 20 bit--and the DM5 is at 18. > > Ok, gunna dust off some old memories here... Prepare to be > dazed^H^H^H^H^H Dazzled! :) > > Sample *width* (i.e. 8 bit, 16 bit) determines the *dynamic range* of the > recorded sound. The sample *frequency* (i.e. 11khz, 22khz 44khz) > determines the *frequency response* of the captured sound. So, a 16 bit > sample would have less *dynamic range* (distance from noise floor to > maximum loudness i.e. ppp->FFF) than a 20 or 24 bit sample. > > Some rough examples: > > A sample of a cymbal crash done in 8 bit width , 44.1khz sample rate > would give you a dynamic resolution of 256 "loudness" levels and would > record 22.5 khz as the highest frequency. This would probably produce a > reasonably good sounding sample. > > So, lets capture the same *amount* of data, but rearrange how we allocate > the space by doubling the dynamic range and halving the frequency > response: > > A sample of a cymbal crash done in 16 bit width , 22khz sample rate would > give you a dynamic resolution of 64,000 "loudness" levels and would > record 11 khz as the highest frequency. This would probably produce a > very bad sounding sample. > > So, lets capture again, but this time boost that 16 bit to 24 bit: > > A sample of a cymbal crash done in 24 bit width , 44.1khz sample rate > would give you a dynamic resolution of 16,000,000 "loudness" levels and > would record 22 khz as the highest frequency. This would probably produce > a very good sounding cymbal. > > This would result in a similar sounding, but MUCH larger sample size > since the amount of data collected would be enormous! Remember, its a > combination of the *two* parameters, sample rate and bit depth that > determine a samples quality. Of course, they in turn determine the SIZE > of the stored sample. > > As you increase the bit width, you not only increase the amount of memory > required to store the sample, you also increase the overhead required to > manipulate that data. (i.e. CPU speed, bus width to move the data, RAM to > store it in, DAC (Digital to Analog Converters) units to turn the data > into sound, etc). > > Anyway, where I'm going with this is that you might not see a big > difference if you auditioned the *same sample* as a 16 bit or as a 24 bit > sound. In many cases, since they use new samples to make these kits, it's > usually not so much the bit width that makes the difference, but the > freshness of the samples to your ear. After you've heard the same samples > for a number of months from the same old module, oftimes *any* new sample > sounds better, even if (from a technical perspective) it's actually not > *better*, just different. > > From my perspective, I would be hard pressed to determine the difference > between a 16 bit and a 20 bit sample, unless I could see the amount of > disk space it was consuming.. :) > > Vern > > PS: I changes the subject line since the discussion was being > relentlessly dragged off topic by some inconsiderate.... uh.. hmm never > mind. :) > > -- > Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE | "If the network is down, then you're > Senior Systems Engineer | obviously incompetent so why are we > Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network > vern@t... www.txis.com | is up, then we obviously don't need > Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG > > > > liberatusvirus said: > > Steve, > > > > I'd be really surprised if the Xtreme module sampled at a 24 bit > > rate. I've never seen a number for it, but I always assumed that it > > was 16 bit as well. The Alesis DM Pro is the highest that I've seen-- > > 20 bit--and the DM5 is at 18. I don't think that the Rolands top > > that, and, if I'm not mistaken, the DTXTU is older than the TD8 and > > TD10, as well as the Alesises. Somebody out there may know for sure. > > The new Yamaha module(s?)will undoubtedly improve on the old bit > > rate. By the way, the DTXpress II will accept woven head pads from > > Pintech, Roland, and maybe Hart, just in case you thought that > > Yamaha's higher end (which were mylar out of the box) would have > > been the only option. The Pintechs are especially cost effective. > > > > Ed > > > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> wrote: > >> Thanks Ed for your reply. > >> > >> I'm alway's the last to know! "LOL" > >> > >> Yes, I've been seeing the kits at Musician's Friend.com (No more)& > >> at Drum World.com (I think still selling). > >> > >> So I guess the gum rubber pads will only be avaialable for the DTX- > >> press II kit's. > >> > >> I have the original DTX-press kit. Have added some double trigger > >> drum & symbal pads to upgrade my kit. > >> > >> I was thinking about buying a DTXtreme module to upgrade the > > sounds > >> and sample rate for my kit as the DTXpress is only 16 bit. I > > thought > >> I heard that the DTXtreme was 24 bit sample rate. > >> > >> I'm wondering about the sample rate of the newest top of the line > >> brain? > >> > >> I'm thinking I don't need to upgrade my drum pads because I only > > use > >> my drums for Cubase recordings & like I've said, pads have been > >> added. But I think it's time to get better quality drum samples at > >> higher sample rates for my set up. > >> > >> Thanks again, Steve > >> > >> > >> > >> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus" > >> <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote: > >> > Steve, > >> > > >> > The midlevel DTX gum rubber kit and its DTX2U module have been > >> discontinued for some time now. The top of the line DTXtreme kit > >> and > >> > module (DTXTU)breathed its last at the beginning of the year. > >> Stores > >> > like MF, Riks Music, etc., were advertising closeouts on it > > until > >> > pretty recently with heavy discounts, but supplies have > > dwindled. > >> > Yamaha apparently would have issued new product to replace it > >> already, but they ran into a licensing problem with the new > >> module. > >> > Expect something to emerge late this summer. > >> > > >> > Ed > >> > > >> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> > >> wrote: > >> > > I see that some of Yamaha's higher-end electric sets & modules > >> are > >> > > being discontinued and/or are not being advertised on places > >> like > >> > > Musician's Friend. > >> > > > >> > > Are they slimming down? Are they making way for more advanced > >> designs to compete with Roland's V-sets? > >> > > > >> > > Yamaha's site say's "Comming Soon" on their electronic drum > > page! > >> > > > >> > > What's up with that? > >> > > > >> > > Steve > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or > > We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/AG3JAA/kkLolB/TM > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- ----~->
> > > > Community email addresses: > > Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com > > Subscribe: DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com > > Unsubscribe: DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com > > List owner: DTXpress-owner@onelist.com > > > > Shortcut URL to this page: > > http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
2003-04-24 by zapaxe
Very interesting guy's... Many good points on both sides of the fence. I see what Vern is talking about with getting tired of the same Ol' sample sounds. I can't even stand to hear my Roland Human Rhythm Composer:D I also have the many years of ears being worn out at the age of 42 & being a rock musician. But my DTXpress (original) never sounded "like wow" to me! The snare & symbals being the least pleasing to me. On playback from my DAW recordings the drums just sound plain funny! But of course I'm not laughing. I just may be buying into the idea to have the highest resolution in sound to start with. I do all my recording in Cubase in 32 bit floating point @44KHz, even though my Aardvark Q10 audio card is 24 bit...Other's have said that this 24 bit at the card & 32bit floating point within Cubase somehow all get's worked out!...? Another point, although somewhat voodoo here...is that sometimes say when you're mixing parts so that you can't actually hear them in the mix, but none the less they add a little something to the timbre as a whole... So what I'm thinking is that mabe the higher bit & sample rates would add just enough to the timbre to sound more authentic. None the less my DTXpress (one) brain is just about the lowest of all drum sound module/brains. Another note is that I e-mailed Yamaha drum tech support a while back (2-3 monthe ago?) to find out what options I have for getting better sounds for my DTXpress & he recommended the DTXtreme. I "thought" he said it contained better samples! Who know what the new brains have in store? Or getting a great deal on the discontinued models sound attractive. Steve --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote: > Vern, > > Good stuff and points well-taken. On a fairly level playing field, > most of us are not going to hear much difference between 16 bits and > 20 bits, depending on the application. But anyone who's followed the > evolution of the CD player from its inception to its current 24 > bit/96khz (and considerably higher) incarnation knows that the > change has been dramatic and that the variables in the digital > domain have some importance. CD's earliest hype as "perfect sound > forever" was a complete fiasco, especially when compared to solid > analog performance at the time; CDs started out as cold and harsh. > Somewhere along the line, they began to approximate what midlevel > analog could achieve, but it took time. Even if the difference from > 16 to 20 bits isn't audible under ordinary conditions, the > difference between 8 bits or even 16 at 44khz to true 24 bits at > 96khz might well be worth pursuing. > > I happen to think that a higher bit width, along with as high a > sampling rate as possible, would be a good thing in drum modules, > assuming that the samples themselves are up to snuff. Cymbals and > drums (especially snares) require a wide frequency response and > dynamic range to sound authentic. An extreme dearth results in the > dreaded machine-gun effect, from which not even the vaunted dtxpress > is totally immune, with its 16 bits and 44khz sampling. On an > acoustic snare, you can roll tightly on the sides of the drum and > get a specific response; at no point does the sound drop out > completely. On an electronic snare, the piezo and its positioning > have a lot to do with the response, but the module contributes much > to the tonality and the faithfulness of the percussive effect. The > better the digital specs, the better are the chances that the sound > will be satisfying. Drummers have a hard-won expectation of drums' > sound according to how and where they hit them. Electronic drums > have moved way past the disappointing stage into the "not bad at > all" stage. > > Theoretically, human hearing encompasses from about 20hz to 20khz-- > that is, if you're a newborn baby who hasn't been exposed to the > vicissitudes of modern life and the onslaught of age. My decrepit > middle-aged hearing, battered further by 40 years of drumming, > probably taps out at about 14 to 16khz on a good day, and the last > time I tried, I got at least a hint of 20hz, but I still think that > a brick wall DAC at 20 or even 22khz is not heard as natural sound, > with all its ghostly presence, though it's pretty damn good. > > Ed > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Vernon Graner" <vern@t...> wrote: > > > Steve, > > > > > > I'd be really surprised if the Xtreme module sampled at a 24 bit > > > rate. I've never seen a number for it, but I always assumed that > it > > > was 16 bit as well. The Alesis DM Pro is the highest that I've > seen-- > > > 20 bit--and the DM5 is at 18. > > > > Ok, gunna dust off some old memories here... Prepare to be > > dazed^H^H^H^H^H Dazzled! :) > > > > Sample *width* (i.e. 8 bit, 16 bit) determines the *dynamic range* > of the > > recorded sound. The sample *frequency* (i.e. 11khz, 22khz 44khz) > > determines the *frequency response* of the captured sound. So, a > 16 bit > > sample would have less *dynamic range* (distance from noise floor > to > > maximum loudness i.e. ppp->FFF) than a 20 or 24 bit sample. > > > > Some rough examples: > > > > A sample of a cymbal crash done in 8 bit width , 44.1khz sample > rate > > would give you a dynamic resolution of 256 "loudness" levels and > would > > record 22.5 khz as the highest frequency. This would probably > produce a > > reasonably good sounding sample. > > > > So, lets capture the same *amount* of data, but rearrange how we > allocate > > the space by doubling the dynamic range and halving the frequency > > response: > > > > A sample of a cymbal crash done in 16 bit width , 22khz sample > rate would > > give you a dynamic resolution of 64,000 "loudness" levels and would > > record 11 khz as the highest frequency. This would probably > produce a > > very bad sounding sample. > > > > So, lets capture again, but this time boost that 16 bit to 24 bit: > > > > A sample of a cymbal crash done in 24 bit width , 44.1khz sample > rate > > would give you a dynamic resolution of 16,000,000 "loudness" > levels and > > would record 22 khz as the highest frequency. This would probably > produce > > a very good sounding cymbal. > > > > This would result in a similar sounding, but MUCH larger sample > size > > since the amount of data collected would be enormous! Remember, > its a > > combination of the *two* parameters, sample rate and bit depth that > > determine a samples quality. Of course, they in turn determine the > SIZE > > of the stored sample. > > > > As you increase the bit width, you not only increase the amount of > memory > > required to store the sample, you also increase the overhead > required to > > manipulate that data. (i.e. CPU speed, bus width to move the data, > RAM to > > store it in, DAC (Digital to Analog Converters) units to turn the > data > > into sound, etc). > > > > Anyway, where I'm going with this is that you might not see a big > > difference if you auditioned the *same sample* as a 16 bit or as a > 24 bit > > sound. In many cases, since they use new samples to make these > kits, it's > > usually not so much the bit width that makes the difference, but > the > > freshness of the samples to your ear. After you've heard the same > samples > > for a number of months from the same old module, oftimes *any* new > sample > > sounds better, even if (from a technical perspective) it's > actually not > > *better*, just different. > > > > From my perspective, I would be hard pressed to determine the > difference > > between a 16 bit and a 20 bit sample, unless I could see the > amount of > > disk space it was consuming.. :) > > > > Vern > > > > PS: I changes the subject line since the discussion was being > > relentlessly dragged off topic by some inconsiderate.... uh.. hmm > never > > mind. :) > > > > -- > > Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE | "If the network is down, then you're > > Senior Systems Engineer | obviously incompetent so why are we > > Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network > > vern@t... www.txis.com | is up, then we obviously don't need > > Cell 507-7851 Desk 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" VLG > > > > > > > > liberatusvirus said: > > > Steve, > > > > > > I'd be really surprised if the Xtreme module sampled at a 24 bit > > > rate. I've never seen a number for it, but I always assumed that > it > > > was 16 bit as well. The Alesis DM Pro is the highest that I've > seen-- > > > 20 bit--and the DM5 is at 18. I don't think that the Rolands top > > > that, and, if I'm not mistaken, the DTXTU is older than the TD8 > and > > > TD10, as well as the Alesises. Somebody out there may know for > sure. > > > The new Yamaha module(s?)will undoubtedly improve on the old bit > > > rate. By the way, the DTXpress II will accept woven head pads > from > > > Pintech, Roland, and maybe Hart, just in case you thought that > > > Yamaha's higher end (which were mylar out of the box) would have > > > been the only option. The Pintechs are especially cost effective. > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> > wrote: > > >> Thanks Ed for your reply. > > >> > > >> I'm alway's the last to know! "LOL" > > >> > > >> Yes, I've been seeing the kits at Musician's Friend.com (No > more)& > > >> at Drum World.com (I think still selling). > > >> > > >> So I guess the gum rubber pads will only be avaialable for the > DTX- > > >> press II kit's. > > >> > > >> I have the original DTX-press kit. Have added some double > trigger > > >> drum & symbal pads to upgrade my kit. > > >> > > >> I was thinking about buying a DTXtreme module to upgrade the > > > sounds > > >> and sample rate for my kit as the DTXpress is only 16 bit. I > > > thought > > >> I heard that the DTXtreme was 24 bit sample rate. > > >> > > >> I'm wondering about the sample rate of the newest top of the > line > > >> brain? > > >> > > >> I'm thinking I don't need to upgrade my drum pads because I only > > > use > > >> my drums for Cubase recordings & like I've said, pads have been > > >> added. But I think it's time to get better quality drum samples > at > > >> higher sample rates for my set up. > > >> > > >> Thanks again, Steve > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus" > > >> <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote: > > >> > Steve, > > >> > > > >> > The midlevel DTX gum rubber kit and its DTX2U module have been > > >> discontinued for some time now. The top of the line DTXtreme kit > > >> and > > >> > module (DTXTU)breathed its last at the beginning of the year. > > >> Stores > > >> > like MF, Riks Music, etc., were advertising closeouts on it > > > until > > >> > pretty recently with heavy discounts, but supplies have > > > dwindled. > > >> > Yamaha apparently would have issued new product to replace it > > >> already, but they ran into a licensing problem with the new > > >> module. > > >> > Expect something to emerge late this summer. > > >> > > > >> > Ed > > >> > > > >> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "zapaxe" <a_zapelectric@h...> > > >> wrote: > > >> > > I see that some of Yamaha's higher-end electric sets & > modules > > >> are > > >> > > being discontinued and/or are not being advertised on places > > >> like > > >> > > Musician's Friend. > > >> > > > > >> > > Are they slimming down? Are they making way for more > advanced > > >> designs to compete with Roland's V-sets? > > >> > > > > >> > > Yamaha's site say's "Comming Soon" on their electronic drum > > > page! > > >> > > > > >> > > What's up with that? > > >> > > > > >> > > Steve > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make > $500.00 or > > > We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/AG3JAA/kkLolB/TM > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- --
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