Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "kirkmangraham2000" 
<kirkmangraham2000@y...> wrote:

> "In order for choking to work, you need to use a PCY80S or a PCY65S.
> The choking feature is a part of the rim switch feature that 
> is only available on the PCY80S and the PCY65S.
> 
> IF you have a stereo cymbal pad, then you will need to set the 
> trigger type to a "PCY Crash" pad. Then go to the voice settings 
for 
> that pad and assign a voice for both the pad and for the rim. So if 
> it is plugged into input no. 7, you must set Trig In= 7 voices for 
> both the pad and the rim. You must also remember to use a stereo 
> (Tip/Ring/Sleeve) cable between the pad and the module. Using a 
mono 
> (Tip/Sleeve) cable with a only give you the pad sound and no 
choking 
> even if you have everything else setup correctly."
> 
> So why can't I wire two seperate mono pads up using the same stereo 
> (Tip/Ring/Sleeve) cable and select one as pad and one as switch and 
> assign two differnt sounds to each?  The only reason I can think 
> that this won't work is that the switch can't be triggered by 
> itself, but only as a direct 'mute' of the pad that it is assigned 
> to! Therefore I would have to hit the trigger pad then immediatly 
> hit the switch pad to get any sound out?
> 
> Wow, I hope that makes some sense?
> 
> 
> Cheers.

That was my response to help recognize what is needed to get a cymbal 
to choke on a DTxpressI.

It may help you if you look through the photos section of this group, 
to see what the inside of the PCY65S and the TP65S look like. The 
only "pad" that Yamaha makes that is a dualzone is the BP80 barpad, 
which has two piezos in it. There are photos of that as well. The 
dual piezos act completely independantly of each other. They do share 
a common ground path, but have independant paths ways for sending 
signals to the module. And as mentioned already Input 9/10 is the 
only dualzone input on the DTxpress module.

Inputs 1-8 are stereo. In a stereo pad you have a central piezo that 
is mounted to the metal plate below the rubber pad. When you strike 
the pad anywhere, the piezo vibrates. If the rim ribbon is not closed 
at the same time, then the module will activate the voice assigned to 
the pad. If the Rim is struck, the pad piezo will also vibrate, along 
with the closure of the rim ribbon. If these happen within a fraction 
of a second of each other then the voice that is assigned to the rim 
is sounded by the module. (If the "RimToPad" setting is "Enabled" in 
the setup, then the module will sound both the voice that is assigned 
to the pad and the voice that is assigned to the rim.) 

If you physically remove the top rubber pad/metal plate that contains 
the piezo from the base housing of the pad of a TP65S and strike the 
rim switch, absolutely nothing will happen. The rim switch is mounted 
to the base housing (see photos in gallery). By isolating the rim 
ribbon switch from the piezo and striking it, you do not vibrate the 
piezo and so no sound is played by the module. 

If you physically take apart two pads, say a TP65 (mono pad) and a 
TP65S (Stereo Pad) and rewire them, such that the tip/ring/sleeve 
that is plugged into input no. 1 (as an example) and the other end 
you wire the tip/sleeve to the TP65 piezo and you wire the ring/ 
sleeve to the TP65S rim ribbon this is what will happen:

When you strike the TP65 the voice assigned to the piezo on input no. 
1 will sound. 

When you strike the TP65S rim ribbon by itself, nothing happens, no 
sound.

If you practice and strike the TP65 pad piezo at exactly the same 
time as the TP65S rim ribbon then the voice assigned to the rim will 
sound. If you strike the TP65 slightly before or after you strike the 
TP65S rim ribbon, then the voice assigned to the TP65 pad piezo 
sounds. 

The choking function on the PCY65S is based on the amount of time 
that the rim switch is physically closed. When you strike the cymbal 
rim switch with a normal hit, the contact time is very short. If you 
strike the rim switch with a blow that continues to press on it, it 
will choke the cymbal, even when you don't want it to. By grabing the 
rim switch and holding it for longer than just a very short time, the 
module will detect it and will choke both edge and pad sounds.

I have physically rip open the pads and cross wired them to try to 
acheive what has be termed the "Holy Grail" of splitting the inputs 
of a stereo input to act as if it were a dual zone input. There have 
been a lot of ideas passed back and forth about how to do this and to 
do it reliably since the beginning of the group in 1999, but with no 
success. Most new owners of the DTxpress kits go through the same 
process that you are going through, only to discovered, it really 
can't be done. Perhaps someone with some electronics experience, 
could eventually come up with a magic box, but I haven't seen one yet.

Hope this helps.

OGD