Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Many posters here seem to favor the keyboard amp, but are you losing 
any sound quality without the rack mounted speakers like the yamaha 
ms100dr type monitor systems? Still trying to figure the best way to 
amplify the dxtreme2s. thanks for any info.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "edrummin" <jjff@v...> wrote:
> 
> 
> Many posters here seem to favor the keyboard amp, but are you 
losing 
> any sound quality without the rack mounted speakers like the yamaha 
> ms100dr type monitor systems? Still trying to figure the best way 
to 
> amplify the dxtreme2s. thanks for any info.

That's an interesting question. There would seem to be genuine 
advantages to having rack-mounted satellites with a subwoofer, but 
there are also a lot of intervening variables. Theoretically, this 
setup should provide good stereo separation and imaging, and the 
dispersion of the tweeters on axis at ear level should place the 
drummer in the sweet spot. But implementation is a big part of the 
battle, too. A separate subwoofer (I'm assuming that your 
hypothetical setup includes one) is a good way to relieve the 
satellites of frequency overload, but integration, in terms of 
crossover point and timbre match can also affect the results. An 
imprecise, slow, and bloated one-note sub is also a drag. Add the 
question of whether the speakers are built well enough not to 
compromise fidelity and/or dynamic range. If you have a rack-mounted 
system that satisfies your demands, then go for it. It pains me to 
say so, and I do it cautiously, but the Yamaha entries appear not to 
qualify. To my ears, the Roland system did--that is, if used as 
practice or stage monitor, not as the primary source of live 
amplification. 

But a good keyboard amp, with sufficient clean power, will guarantee 
adequate dynamic range and sidestep the issue of integration; two of 
them will provide stereo, if that happens to be important. If off-
axis sound quality is an issue, you can always position it better 
and/or tilt it up a bit. Guitar Center usually has a Roland kit with 
Roland amplification on it. Maybe you can check one out. It's much 
harder to find the Yamaha sub/satellite system. Run a seach of this 
site, and others, for user opinions; the fact that they didn't get a 
good recommendation came as a surprise to me. 

Ed

>  It's much
> harder to find the Yamaha sub/satellite system.

I tried to find the price of the Yamaha monitoring system before
buying my Behringer. No-one seemed to know or to stock it. Oh, I did
find one place online and it was expensive as I recall. Anyway, I got
an overall impression that no-one sold them because no-one wanted
them, and decided there must be a reason for that.

J

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, john@j... wrote:
> >  It's much
> > harder to find the Yamaha sub/satellite system.
> 
> I tried to find the price of the Yamaha monitoring system before
> buying my Behringer. No-one seemed to know or to stock it. Oh, I did
> find one place online and it was expensive as I recall. Anyway, I 
got
> an overall impression that no-one sold them because no-one wanted
> them, and decided there must be a reason for that.

J,

Yeah, it's weird. When online stores started announcing them, before 
they actually had any, no one knew what to expect. But the price was 
right (compared to Roland), and, after all, Yamaha had the kits to 
match up with them, so they, especially the larger one, seemed worth 
a try. But cheakster bought one--or maybe both--and was really 
disappointed. Then other people followed with the same opinion. It's 
hard to give a product the benefit of the doubt if there doesn't 
appear to be any doubt. If anyone has a different evaluation of the 
Yamaha system, please speak up. 

Ed

I've noticed the salespeople who favor the rack style systems are 
sometimes not drummers, so their ear is for certain sound not 
necessarily what a drummer may want to hear or "feel". I say that 
because two salemen i talked to are active drummers as well said 
when you hit lows on the toms, it's gratifying to feel as well as 
hear the bottom lows. (only a drummer would appreciate and 
understand that). They said you get more of that feel from a keboard 
speaker because they're larger size speakers. Their personal use and 
recommendations were Roland Kc550 or Kc350 amps.

I have both the Roland KC500 (earlier version of the KC550) and a Behringer
KX1200 and they both have 15" subs and they are both great for home
use/monitoring.
 
OGD

   _____  

From: edrummin  
Subject: [DTXpress] Re: another amp question



I've noticed the salespeople who favor the rack style systems are 
sometimes not drummers, so their ear is for certain sound not 
necessarily what a drummer may want to hear or "feel". I say that 
because two salemen i talked to are active drummers as well said 
when you hit lows on the toms, it's gratifying to feel as well as 
hear the bottom lows. (only a drummer would appreciate and 
understand that). They said you get more of that feel from a keboard 
speaker because they're larger size speakers. Their personal use and 
recommendations were Roland Kc550 or Kc350 amps. 




 
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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "edrummin" <jjff@v...> wrote:
> 
> I've noticed the salespeople who favor the rack style systems are 
> sometimes not drummers, so their ear is for certain sound not 
> necessarily what a drummer may want to hear or "feel". I say that 
> because two salemen i talked to are active drummers as well said 
> when you hit lows on the toms, it's gratifying to feel as well as 
> hear the bottom lows. (only a drummer would appreciate and 
> understand that). They said you get more of that feel from a 
keboard 
> speaker because they're larger size speakers. Their personal use 
and 
> recommendations were Roland Kc550 or Kc350 amps.

Those are probably good points, but a sub/satellite system would also 
allow you to feel the toms, as long as the sub had some oomph to it. 
(Rack-mounted satellites without a sub would be as bad as using a 
guitar amp, if not worse, for electronic drums.) Also, remember that 
subwoofer frequencies are not directional in the same way that higher 
frequencies (above, say, 80 to 100 Hz) are, which makes certain 
aspects of sub placement noncritical, though a sub placed in the 
middle of a room risks loss of body. Placement near a wall, 
especially in a corner, can make a sub really sing--sometimes too 
much. Also, room nodes can suck out or emphasize certain frequencies, 
detracting from the experience.  Sub location is always labor-
intensive for best sound. 

If you really want to feel the bass, place a butt kicker on your 
seat. I think that Vern posted some cheap alternatives for one, as 
well as installation advice, earlier this year. There's a nifty 
headphone amp out of Germany that has one attached--the Fischer Drum 
InEar Amp w/Bass Shaker. I tried to find out if it was available in 
the States, but apparently not. I'd love to get one. Our friends in 
Europe should be able to, however--maybe from Thomann.

Ed