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Which E-Drums Produce Least Bad Vibes?

Which E-Drums Produce Least Bad Vibes?

2005-04-10 by andypfau

I recently picked up a Yamaha DTXPRESS II kit and love being able to 
practice at 11pm and not wake the neighbors (or my wife, for that 
matter).  

One Problem: If I play along with music, I can only last an hour at 
most before my lead hand starts to cramp from the pad's vibrations. I 
always stop immediately to avoid CTS. I've started using Zildjian's 
Anti-Vibe sticks, and they help, but I'm wondering if there is an 
electronic kit out there I can upgrade to that lessens or eliminates 
the vibration issue I'm experiencing.

Any suggestions?  At this point, I'm not worried about price, I just 
want to know what's out there.

thanks!

Re: Which E-Drums Produce Least Bad Vibes?

2005-04-10 by drumsonly2002

I developed CTS due to drumming. I played professionally as a rock
drummer and developed it mostly in the left wrist.  Looked into why
and discovered it was not WHAT I was hitting, but HOW I was hitting.
Drumstick grip, force and constant hitting can cause CTS and it can
become very painful. What I did was see a good drum teacher that knew
about the "Moller" technique. I had a good drum instructor that
introduced me to Jim Chapin, and Jim taught me the Moller technique.
Basically it involves proper stick grip, and enables one to play with
speed power and endurance due to facilitation of proper hitting
technique. My advice is to find a good drum instructor and take a
couple of lessons just on grip. My CTS is not as chronic now and I can
play harder, last longer and have a lot of power when needed. Because
of a light stick grip, but using the power of the forearm for accents,
my wrists do not get hosed playing. Also go to "Tiger Bill's" website
and look into the Gladstone technique. When I started playing rock
drums over 25 years ago, I thought I had to come on to the drum with
all I had, so I played like that for years. I aimed for the bottom of
the drum and played very hard, being a rock drummer heh. The Moller
technique taught me, I could maintain the power, but the stick grip is
very light. Gladstone is a great technique to learn as you 
let the stick "drop" before hitting the drum as the stick has attained
kinetic energy, thus let it travel the rest of the way to the drum and
the wrist does not get shock coming from the stick when contacting the
drum or any surface. I can play on metal plates if I wanted forever
and my wrists would not have any stress on it. This is because those
techniques cause one to "throw" the stick onto the drum. The forearm
supplies the power. Excellent techniques for speed as a humming bird
can flap its wings a lot faster that a Do Do bird. It took a while to
re-learn as I had over 20 years of improper technique under my belt. I
re-learned my grip, and use Moller now. Nothing wrong with your pads
at all. Not to pick on you but please look into your technique as this
can make or break our enjoyment of drumming.

"I can only last an hour at most before my lead hand starts to cramp
from the pad's vibrations."

With Moller or Gladstone techniques you will not only get rid of any
issues with your wrists, but drum longer, harder, faster with less
effort. You can be the animal you always wanted to be on the drums!!!

Re: Which E-Drums Produce Least Bad Vibes?

2005-04-11 by quarlofx

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "drumsonly2002" <dan@n...> wrote:
> With Moller or Gladstone techniques you will not only get rid of any
> issues with your wrists, but drum longer, harder, faster with less
> effort.

You make an excellent point (as always!) but I offer a tiny caveat
that YMMV.  As an old (very old and getting older by the nanosecond -
soon to be 56 ... YIKES!) drummer who has been playing for 35+ years I
have to say that individual biomechanics and joint disease may make
any "cure" less than complete.  Having fought both arthritis and
carpal tunnel problems for the last decade, I find that even those
techniques are unable to completely eliminate my difficulties.  That
said, you are right on when you make a case for instruction in proper
mechanics.  I thought I would never play again until I got lessons in
just those methods and was able to mitigate the discomfort
significantly as a result.  I cannot argue strongly enough for exactly
the path you recommend and those pariticular techniques specifically.

One other thing that has helped me more than any single change I have
ever tried (again, I've read posts to the contrary and (insert
Universal Disclaimer ...) YMMV), but my DTXtreme IIS is the most
forgiving kit I have *ever* played - bar none.  I have been playing
for up to 3-4 hours straight on weekends and I have yet to require any
pain meds afterward.  This was impossible on my acoustic kit as
recently as a year ago.  An hour and I'd be an aching mess (as opposed
to my standard non-aching mess ;-)).  I went back to the acoustic kit
(thank you, kind and forgiving neighbors!) as a litmus test and was
hurting pretty badly after half that time.

As always, this is my own personal experience and no two of us are
identical, but I offer it in hopes it may help.

FX

PS do2K+2 - thank you from the bottom of my heart for your posts on
the DTXTIIS which contributed to my (wise) decision to buy this
wonderful instrument!

Re: Which E-Drums Produce Least Bad Vibes?

2005-04-11 by emf

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "quarlofx" <quarlo@e...> wrote:
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "drumsonly2002" <dan@n...> wrote:
> > With Moller or Gladstone techniques you will not only get rid of 
any
> > issues with your wrists, but drum longer, harder, faster with less
> > effort.
> 
> You make an excellent point (as always!) but I offer a tiny caveat
> that YMMV.  As an old (very old and getting older by the 
nanosecond -
> soon to be 56 ... YIKES!) drummer who has been playing for 35+ 
years I
> have to say that individual biomechanics and joint disease may make
> any "cure" less than complete.  Having fought both arthritis and
> carpal tunnel problems for the last decade, I find that even those
> techniques are unable to completely eliminate my difficulties.  That
> said, you are right on when you make a case for instruction in 
proper
> mechanics.  I thought I would never play again until I got lessons 
in
> just those methods and was able to mitigate the discomfort
> significantly as a result.  I cannot argue strongly enough for 
exactly
> the path you recommend and those pariticular techniques 
specifically.
> 
> One other thing that has helped me more than any single change I 
have
> ever tried (again, I've read posts to the contrary and (insert
> Universal Disclaimer ...) YMMV), but my DTXtreme IIS is the most
> forgiving kit I have *ever* played - bar none.  I have been playing
> for up to 3-4 hours straight on weekends and I have yet to require 
any
> pain meds afterward.  This was impossible on my acoustic kit as
> recently as a year ago.  An hour and I'd be an aching mess (as 
opposed
> to my standard non-aching mess ;-)).  I went back to the acoustic 
kit
> (thank you, kind and forgiving neighbors!) as a litmus test and was
> hurting pretty badly after half that time.
> 
> As always, this is my own personal experience and no two of us are
> identical, but I offer it in hopes it may help.

Since we're making a daisy chain of commonality, agreement, and a 
little more to add, as a drummer of forty years or so, I'd like to 
second FX (and third drumslonly) that proper technique will help to 
reduce the severity of any existing problems, as well as the 
likelihood of problems occurring in the first place. That said, as FX 
wrote, if you already have arthritis or a similar ailment, then 
management becomes key. In addition to proper technique, playing on a 
surface that softens the blows can only be of benefit. The DTXtreme 
IIS kit (which I don't own) improves significantly on every other gum 
rubber option in the short history of e-drums. So does mesh, though 
some woven heads are better than others at approximating the feel of 
mylar. The DTXTIIS rubber cymbals constitute another advantage, at 
least in this respect. Acoustic cymbals and their new metal 
approximations from companies like Smartrigger and Hart, and even the 
acrylic Visulites, as close as they may be to their acoustic 
counterparts, don't absorb shock as well as well as the Yamahas (when 
played without excessive force). 

I have a question for you fellow oldtimers who resort to pain 
medication from time to time. How are you coping with the new 
information about Celebrex, Vioxx, and even naproxen? Has it inclined 
you to alternatives like acetomenophen, or have you thrown caution to 
the wind? 

Ed

Re: [DTXpress] Re: Which E-Drums Produce Least Bad Vibes?

2005-04-11 by Vernon Graner

emf said:
<snip>
> I have a question for you fellow oldtimers who resort to pain
> medication from time to time. How are you coping with the new
> information about Celebrex, Vioxx, and even naproxen? Has it inclined
> you to alternatives like acetomenophen, or have you thrown caution to
> the wind?

Was on Vioxx, then Celebrex, then Naproxen (Aleve), now I'm on regular
Bayer aspirin and LOTs of glucosimine/chondroiten. I also don't play
hardly at all anymore. :(

Vern

-- 
Vern Graner CNE/CNA/SSE    | "If the network is down, then you're
Senior Systems Engineer    | obviously incompetent so why are we
Texas Information Services | paying you? Of course, if the network
http://www.txis.com        | is up, then we obviously don't need
Austin Office 512 328-8947 | you, so why are we paying you?" \ufffdVLG

Re: Which E-Drums Produce Least Bad Vibes?

2005-04-11 by drumsonly2002

I am the young pup in the group! 49 almost 50 years old!!! My joints
feel like someone kicked me after playing an intense gig. That's why I
had to relearn my technique 5 years ago, wrist pain. Invested in the
Jim Chapin video, a few lessons from a good drum instructor, and
personal instruction from Jim Chapin himself to "fine tune my Moller".
My body is not what it use to be, and after a gig I feel like I had a
mule run over me, but my speed power and endurance is a lot better due
to not straining my self incorrectly and waisting energy slamming the
drums improperly.  I was 45 when I re trained for better snare drum
techniques. right now working on some fast double kick work. Never
thought i would still be playing at 50 but feel like I am just getting
started. working on some nice solo's too. Drums forever!!!!

Re: Which E-Drums Produce Least Bad Vibes?

2005-04-11 by emf

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "drumsonly2002" <dan@n...> wrote:
> 
> I am the young pup in the group! 49 almost 50 years old!!! My joints
> feel like someone kicked me after playing an intense gig. That's why 
I
> had to relearn my technique 5 years ago, wrist pain. Invested in the
> Jim Chapin video, a few lessons from a good drum instructor, and
> personal instruction from Jim Chapin himself to "fine tune my 
Moller".
> My body is not what it use to be, and after a gig I feel like I had a
> mule run over me, but my speed power and endurance is a lot better 
due
> to not straining my self incorrectly and waisting energy slamming the
> drums improperly.  I was 45 when I re trained for better snare drum
> techniques. right now working on some fast double kick work. Never
> thought i would still be playing at 50 but feel like I am just 
getting
> started. working on some nice solo's too. Drums forever!!!!

Sounds like you're going through your second childhood, and I mean 
that in a good way. I must say, however, that I'm more than happy to 
relinquish seniority.

Ed

RE: [DTXpress] Re: Which E-Drums Produce Least Bad Vibes?

2005-04-11 by Aaron L.

Being a "real young pup" (I'm 30!) and getting VERY serious about finally
LEARNING to play drums (I can fake it!) I applaud anyone who plays an
instrument and loves it.  But especially you drummers who just keep doing
it.  I used to look at older bands and think "give it up, dudes".  Now I
realize that their determination to keep doing it makes them that much more
special as people/artists.

When you give up, get a bank job (that you hate), and marry a real b#@$h who
doesn't respect you _THEN_ you've lost it.

There's NOTHING wrong with rocking forever.  Even if it's the thing that
kills you.

Amen.
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