Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Hi,
I just got a DTXPRESS I, and I'm trying to edit the triggers, but I 
don't understand how to save the changes. When I try to save, lets say 
trigger 1, it asks me to save it to a new trigger number between 8-11 
("Store TRG to 8 Are you sure ?").
This isn't what I want to do, I want to edit trigger 1; not assign it 
to a new trigger number - especially to 8 which is already in use by 
my hi-hat.
The manual says that "You can edit both preset (No. 1-7) and user 
Trigger Setups (No. 8-11)" but it's not working for me. It is very 
frustrating because I need to adjust the gain and velocity.

Can some one enlighten me? What I'm doing wrong? 
Any insight would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Brian

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "bncarty" <bncarty@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I just got a DTXPRESS I, and I'm trying to edit the triggers, but I 
> don't understand how to save the changes. When I try to save, lets say 
> trigger 1, it asks me to save it to a new trigger number between 8-11 
> ("Store TRG to 8 Are you sure ?").
> This isn't what I want to do, I want to edit trigger 1; not assign it 
> to a new trigger number - especially to 8 which is already in use by 
> my hi-hat.
> The manual says that "You can edit both preset (No. 1-7) and user 
> Trigger Setups (No. 8-11)" but it's not working for me. It is very 
> frustrating because I need to adjust the gain and velocity.
> 
> Can some one enlighten me? What I'm doing wrong? 
> Any insight would be appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Brian
>

Brian,

You can edit the preset triggers but you cannot save to setups 1-7
(see P11 of the reference manual "Data cannot be stored to preset
Trigger Setup (No. 1-7)").

After editing, if you want to keep the changes you need to select
numbers 8-11.  

From your comments I think you are confusing the trigger setup [1-11],
which is a set of the setups for all inputs, with the individual
trigger inputs [1-10].  Yes, input 8 is your hi-hat, but trigger setup
1, for example, is a complete setup of all inputs, from 1 to 10. 
Copying that to trigger setup 8 is nothing to do with the hi-hat. 
There are 7 preset setups and each one contains the configuration for
every trigger input.

I am not sure if I have explained that properly - post again if it
still doesn't make sense.

Keith.

Thanks Keith. I'm not sure if I fully understand this yet. 
Are you saying that I cannot adjust the levels for each input 
individually, ie: so that the snare has a differnet gain than a tom?
You see my 4 drum pads/triggers/inputs are way too loud, and my hi-
hat and cymbals are way too low. I was hoping to drop the gain on 
each of the four drum inputs and raise the gain on each of the three 
cymbals. Currently, my set is unplayable as it is because of the 
huge difference in trigger input levels.

I guess I'm misinterpreting the manual which says on page 35 "The 
Trigger Setup Edit Mode lets you alter a variety of settings for 
EACH of the trigger inputs jacks (1-10) of the Trigger Setup."

So are they really saying that when you edit triggers you are 
changing ALL 10 inputs at once? That's a really crappy 
implementation because a snare is not hit the same way a cymbal 
would be. Heck, even my old no-name brain (before it died) let me 
adjust the input sensitivty for each pad separately.



--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Keith" <keith@...> wrote:
>
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "bncarty" <bncarty@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> > I just got a DTXPRESS I, and I'm trying to edit the triggers, 
but I 
> > don't understand how to save the changes. When I try to save, 
lets say 
> > trigger 1, it asks me to save it to a new trigger number between 
8-11 
> > ("Store TRG to 8 Are you sure ?").
> > This isn't what I want to do, I want to edit trigger 1; not 
assign it 
> > to a new trigger number - especially to 8 which is already in 
use by 
> > my hi-hat.
> > The manual says that "You can edit both preset (No. 1-7) and 
user 
> > Trigger Setups (No. 8-11)" but it's not working for me. It is 
very 
> > frustrating because I need to adjust the gain and velocity.
> > 
> > Can some one enlighten me? What I'm doing wrong? 
> > Any insight would be appreciated.
> > Thanks,
> > Brian
> >
> 
> Brian,
> 
> You can edit the preset triggers but you cannot save to setups 1-7
> (see P11 of the reference manual "Data cannot be stored to preset
> Trigger Setup (No. 1-7)").
> 
> After editing, if you want to keep the changes you need to select
> numbers 8-11.  
> 
> From your comments I think you are confusing the trigger setup [1-
11],
> which is a set of the setups for all inputs, with the individual
> trigger inputs [1-10].  Yes, input 8 is your hi-hat, but trigger 
setup
> 1, for example, is a complete setup of all inputs, from 1 to 10. 
> Copying that to trigger setup 8 is nothing to do with the hi-hat. 
> There are 7 preset setups and each one contains the configuration 
for

> every trigger input.
> 
> I am not sure if I have explained that properly - post again if it
> still doesn't make sense.
> 
> Keith.
>

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "bncarty" <bncarty@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Keith. I'm not sure if I fully understand this yet. 
> Are you saying that I cannot adjust the levels for each input 
> individually, ie: so that the snare has a differnet gain than a tom?
> You see my 4 drum pads/triggers/inputs are way too loud, and my hi-
> hat and cymbals are way too low. I was hoping to drop the gain on 
> each of the four drum inputs and raise the gain on each of the three 
> cymbals. Currently, my set is unplayable as it is because of the 
> huge difference in trigger input levels.
> 
> I guess I'm misinterpreting the manual which says on page 35 "The 
> Trigger Setup Edit Mode lets you alter a variety of settings for 
> EACH of the trigger inputs jacks (1-10) of the Trigger Setup."
> 
> So are they really saying that when you edit triggers you are 
> changing ALL 10 inputs at once? That's a really crappy 
> implementation because a snare is not hit the same way a cymbal 
> would be. Heck, even my old no-name brain (before it died) let me 
> adjust the input sensitivty for each pad separately.
> 

I thought I wasn't doing a very good job of explaining this!

You can certainly adjust every input separately and save them.  You
can do what you want to do - you just haven't worked out how to do it
yet and I am not doing a great job of explaining it.  

There are 11 trigger setups (7 fixed, 4 user).  Each setup has a pad
type/gain/velocity curve setting etc for the 10 inputs, making 110
items which can be stored in total.  While you can modify the fixed
trigger setups 1-7, you can only save to the 4 user ones (8-11).

If you select a particular trigger setup, say the first one "STD Med"
- that selects a set of values for each of the trigger inputs.  If you
go into edit mode and tap one of the pads you will see the display
change to say "TRIG IN=5" if you hit TOM3.  If you edit the settings
there, you are just changing the settings for TOM3.  If you then hit
your kick it will say "TRIG IN=2" and you can then edit all the
settings for that pad.  Then when you come to save it (to one of the
user settings 8-11), it will copy all the settings from the original
trigger setup into USER 8-11, with your modifications, depending on
which you selected.

The part you are struggling with is the difference between the trigger
setup 1-11 and the setting of each pad 1-10 (trigger input).

Keith.

I doubt very much that the problem is with you; it is most 
definitely me and the fact that Yamaha uses the term trigger, input, 
source and pad interchangably, whcih makes it very difficult to 
understand.
Now that I know that what I want to do is possible, I'll just have 
to sort thru the procedures until I figure it out. I'm not in front 
of my kit right now, but I'll try again tonight and see how I make 
out. 

Thanks again.
Brian

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Keith" <keith@...> wrote:
>
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "bncarty" <bncarty@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Keith. I'm not sure if I fully understand this yet. 
> > Are you saying that I cannot adjust the levels for each input 
> > individually, ie: so that the snare has a differnet gain than a 
tom?
> > You see my 4 drum pads/triggers/inputs are way too loud, and my 
hi-
> > hat and cymbals are way too low. I was hoping to drop the gain 
on 
> > each of the four drum inputs and raise the gain on each of the 
three 
> > cymbals. Currently, my set is unplayable as it is because of the 
> > huge difference in trigger input levels.
> > 
> > I guess I'm misinterpreting the manual which says on page 
35 "The 
> > Trigger Setup Edit Mode lets you alter a variety of settings for 
> > EACH of the trigger inputs jacks (1-10) of the Trigger Setup."
> > 
> > So are they really saying that when you edit triggers you are 
> > changing ALL 10 inputs at once? That's a really crappy 
> > implementation because a snare is not hit the same way a cymbal 
> > would be. Heck, even my old no-name brain (before it died) let 
me 
> > adjust the input sensitivty for each pad separately.
> > 
> 
> I thought I wasn't doing a very good job of explaining this!
> 
> You can certainly adjust every input separately and save them.  You
> can do what you want to do - you just haven't worked out how to do 
it
> yet and I am not doing a great job of explaining it.  
> 
> There are 11 trigger setups (7 fixed, 4 user).  Each setup has a 
pad
> type/gain/velocity curve setting etc for the 10 inputs, making 110
> items which can be stored in total.  While you can modify the fixed
> trigger setups 1-7, you can only save to the 4 user ones (8-11).
> 
> If you select a particular trigger setup, say the first one "STD 
Med"
> - that selects a set of values for each of the trigger inputs.  If 
you
> go into edit mode and tap one of the pads you will see the display
> change to say "TRIG IN=5" if you hit TOM3.  If you edit the 
settings
> there, you are just changing the settings for TOM3.  If you then 
hit
> your kick it will say "TRIG IN=2" and you can then edit all the
> settings for that pad.  Then when you come to save it (to one of 
the
> user settings 8-11), it will copy all the settings from the 
original
> trigger setup into USER 8-11, with your modifications, depending on
> which you selected.
> 
> The part you are struggling with is the difference between the 
trigger

> setup 1-11 and the setting of each pad 1-10 (trigger input).
> 
> Keith.
>

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "bncarty" <bncarty@...> wrote:
>
> I doubt very much that the problem is with you; it is most 
> definitely me and the fact that Yamaha uses the term trigger, input, 
> source and pad interchangably, whcih makes it very difficult to 
> understand.
> Now that I know that what I want to do is possible, I'll just have 
> to sort thru the procedures until I figure it out. I'm not in front 
> of my kit right now, but I'll try again tonight and see how I make 
> out. 

Brian,

The problem is that Yamaha overuse the word trigger so it gets
confusing.  There are trigger "sets" or "setups" and trigger "inputs"
or "triggers" (=pads).  Don't get me started on dual zone/stereo pads
(sorry, triggers).  Unfortunately my kit isn't in front of my computer
so I have to keep going between rooms to check what I am saying.

By all means come back with more questions when you have had a chance
to try it a bit more.  You cannot do any harm by saving the changes
you have made - you cannot overwrite the preset trigger settings or
kits (otherwise they wouldn't be preset I guess).

Keith.