Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Hi,

I am a DTS V2 owner and am currently consider upgrading my kit.  I am 
hoping to replace the snare and add another cymbal to it.  I would 
like to get your expert advice if possible.

For the snare, I want to get the Pintech AX14S.  I saw the overall 
comment was great but am not sure if the setup will be difficult.  
Afterall, I am still a novice drummer and want to concentrate on the 
technique first.

As for the cymbal, well I kinda like the original PCY80S but 
unfortunately it's been discontinued. So I thought perhaps getting 
the PCY65 along with the bell PCY10 might be an option. But wait, 
what about the setup, do you think putting a splitter in the 9/10 
input will work?

I also want to replace the hi-hat kick pad cause the feel is quite 
horrible.  BUt I ain't sure if there is any good replacement out 
there.  Might be you guys can make suggestion here!


That's all, I hope this will work.  Feel free to tell me if other 
options might be better.  I am open to all kinds of ideas.  :)

Thank you guys and happy drumming!

Jim

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jclco_md" <jclco_md@y...> wrote:
> For the snare, I want to get the Pintech AX14S.  I saw the overall 
> comment was great but am not sure if the setup will be difficult.  
> Afterall, I am still a novice drummer and want to concentrate on 
the 
> technique first.

Hi Jim,

I assume that DTXpressII was what you meant. The AX14S is the most 
cost-effective way to add a high-quality woven head pad to your kit 
(and at 14 inches, it's difficult for even me to miss). Setup isn't 
particularly difficult. You'll have to change the pad type of your 
snare in the trigger menu. Experiment if you like; I have mine set as 
DT Snare. You will also have to place it on a separate stand, as 
opposed to attaching it on the rack. Nothwithstanding this slight 
complication, the change will have benefits, allowing you to run gain 
much higher and min. velocity much lower because of the drum's 
relative invulnerability to crosstalk. Your most important rejection 
setting now will be self-rejection, making sure that the AX14S 
doesn't run so hot that it double-triggers. You'll also want to flip 
the DIP switch corresponding to your snare input on the back of the 
module to the up position. Otherwise the signal may be too 
attenuated. Since the AX14S is dual-zone, meaning it needs a 
different input for the body and for the rim, most Xpress users use 
standard input 2 for the snare and either 9 or 10 for rim, in order 
not to waste a stereo input. A few people run both AX14S outputs 
through 9/10, but moving the snare that way makes it all but 
impossible to use the default kits easily.
> 
> As for the cymbal, well I kinda like the original PCY80S but 
> unfortunately it's been discontinued. So I thought perhaps getting 
> the PCY65 along with the bell PCY10 might be an option. But wait, 
> what about the setup, do you think putting a splitter in the 9/10 
> input will work?

You could do that, but remember that you may have used up 9 or 10 
already with the rim from the AX14S. (Welcome to the new problem of 
how to add inputs to the Xpress--a search of the archives and a new 
post may be in order.) You might also consider the Zenbal 14" round 
stereo cymbal, which will work in one of your stereo inputs and allow 
you to retain 9/10 for the AX14S and another mono pad (an extra tom 
or crash?). 
 
> I also want to replace the hi-hat kick pad cause the feel is quite 
> horrible.  BUt I ain't sure if there is any good replacement out 
> there.  Might be you guys can make suggestion here!

Well, I'm not sure whether you're referring to the hi hat pad or the 
kick pad. If the former, I'm a Visu-lite guy all the way. You get to 
use an old-fashioned hi hat stand and watch those two cymbals go up 
and down just like they used to in the good old days before 
electricity. Check out my Visu-lite pics in the Files section and 
consult the company's website. If the latter, options abound. You can 
get a woven-head kick pad from Roland (too expensive)or Pintech (much 
more reasonable) or even a bigger, better rubber one (I have the 
textured DrumTech kick pad, which Drumbalaya carries now; to me it 
has all the advantages of a woven head without the hassle of 
periodically having to turn lugs; also, it's built like a tank).
 
Ed

Ed,

Thanks for your reply.  My kit is actually driven by the older 
retired DTX Version 2 brain.  I appologize for posting in the wrong 
group but since I don't find a home and DTXpress is the closest thing 
that matches my unit, I thought my situation should be similar.  

Your feedback about the AX14S is very helpful.  Setup wise, I hope 
it's the same and I never thought that I need to change the pad type 
in the trigger menu.  Thanks for your pointer.  Now since my original 
snare is a TP80S (dual-zone) and it takes up only one input in my DTX 
V2 module, I think I might not need to do anything special about 
that.  What about sensitivity of the AX14S?  I saw on the prior 
postings back in January that you guys had to adjust the hot spot 
area.  That part of tuning will come in handy when I get mine.  Have 
you make further adjustment to it lately?  How about double or buzz 
rolls?? Are they pretty authentic to real drums in your opinion?  

Now for the cymbal, I haven't investigated the Zenbal 14" before. I 
like the fact that it can be a dual zone chokable thing. I wonder if 
the feel is good though! In the product description, it 
says "Separate center and edge sounds".  Does it mean the edge and 
the bell trigger one sound and then the face triggers the other?  
That will be cool!!  Also, I assume the original Yamaha cymbal arm 
will fit this thing, right?  

The hi-hat pad was what I was referring to.  Sure enough, I love the 
Visu-Lite's design.  The price might be a bit out of my range.  So I 
might need to wait a bit and see what other companies have to offer.

Overall, your feedback is well appreciated and I will let you guys 
know my 2 cents of these products once I try them.

Thanks!

Jim

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "liberatusvirus" 
<liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jclco_md" <jclco_md@y...> wrote:
> > For the snare, I want to get the Pintech AX14S.  I saw the 
overall 
> > comment was great but am not sure if the setup will be 
difficult.  
> > Afterall, I am still a novice drummer and want to concentrate on 
> the 
> > technique first.
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
> I assume that DTXpressII was what you meant. The AX14S is the most 
> cost-effective way to add a high-quality woven head pad to your kit 
> (and at 14 inches, it's difficult for even me to miss). Setup isn't 
> particularly difficult. You'll have to change the pad type of your 
> snare in the trigger menu. Experiment if you like; I have mine set 
as 
> DT Snare. You will also have to place it on a separate stand, as 
> opposed to attaching it on the rack. Nothwithstanding this slight 
> complication, the change will have benefits, allowing you to run 
gain 
> much higher and min. velocity much lower because of the drum's 
> relative invulnerability to crosstalk. Your most important 
rejection 
> setting now will be self-rejection, making sure that the AX14S 
> doesn't run so hot that it double-triggers. You'll also want to 
flip 
> the DIP switch corresponding to your snare input on the back of the 
> module to the up position. Otherwise the signal may be too 
> attenuated. Since the AX14S is dual-zone, meaning it needs a 
> different input for the body and for the rim, most Xpress users use 
> standard input 2 for the snare and either 9 or 10 for rim, in order 
> not to waste a stereo input. A few people run both AX14S outputs 
> through 9/10, but moving the snare that way makes it all but 
> impossible to use the default kits easily.
> > 
> > As for the cymbal, well I kinda like the original PCY80S but 
> > unfortunately it's been discontinued. So I thought perhaps 
getting 
> > the PCY65 along with the bell PCY10 might be an option. But wait, 
> > what about the setup, do you think putting a splitter in the 9/10 
> > input will work?
> 
> You could do that, but remember that you may have used up 9 or 10 
> already with the rim from the AX14S. (Welcome to the new problem of 
> how to add inputs to the Xpress--a search of the archives and a new 
> post may be in order.) You might also consider the Zenbal 14" round 
> stereo cymbal, which will work in one of your stereo inputs and 
allow 
> you to retain 9/10 for the AX14S and another mono pad (an extra tom 
> or crash?). 
>  
> > I also want to replace the hi-hat kick pad cause the feel is 
quite 
> > horrible.  BUt I ain't sure if there is any good replacement out 
> > there.  Might be you guys can make suggestion here!
> 
> Well, I'm not sure whether you're referring to the hi hat pad or 
the 
> kick pad. If the former, I'm a Visu-lite guy all the way. You get 
to 
> use an old-fashioned hi hat stand and watch those two cymbals go up 
> and down just like they used to in the good old days before 
> electricity. Check out my Visu-lite pics in the Files section and 
> consult the company's website. If the latter, options abound. You 
can 
> get a woven-head kick pad from Roland (too expensive)or Pintech 
(much 

> more reasonable) or even a bigger, better rubber one (I have the 
> textured DrumTech kick pad, which Drumbalaya carries now; to me it 
> has all the advantages of a woven head without the hassle of 
> periodically having to turn lugs; also, it's built like a tank).
>  
> Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jclco_md" <jclco_md@y...> wrote:
> Thanks for your reply.  My kit is actually driven by the older 
> retired DTX Version 2 brain.  I appologize for posting in the wrong 
> group but since I don't find a home and DTXpress is the closest 
thing 
> that matches my unit, I thought my situation should be similar.  

Jim,

You're completely welcome here. Sometimes people confuse the XpressII 
and the DTXv2.0. So I wanted to make sure. The two have ample overlap.
 
> Your feedback about the AX14S is very helpful.  Setup wise, I hope 
> it's the same and I never thought that I need to change the pad 
type 
> in the trigger menu.  Thanks for your pointer.  Now since my 
original 
> snare is a TP80S (dual-zone) and it takes up only one input in my 
DTX 
> V2 module, I think I might not need to do anything special about 
> that.  

Unfortunately the "s" in TP80s doen't signify dual-zone, but stereo. 
I won't go into detail about the differences here, the main one is 
that stereo pads (which are gum-rubber) will work in a single stereo 
input such as you find on Yamaha and Roland modules, whereas dual-
zone pads (not gum rubber), although they have double-sound 
capability as well, need two mono inputs. Nor do they recognize a 
stereo input as anything but a mono in sheep's clothing. The long and 
short of it is that you'll need two inputs of any kind to use a dual-
zone AX14s, including using a TRS splitter to access 9 and 10.

> What about sensitivity of the AX14S?  I saw on the prior postings 
back in January that you guys had to adjust the hot spot 
> area.  That part of tuning will come in handy when I get mine.  

The AX14s is plenty sensitive when setup correctly. It has a bit of a 
hot spot where the piezo is located (so what else is new), but I've 
never found it to be much of a problem. Walt (god bless'im), the 
owner of the DTX group, seems to have noticed it more after he 
switched to the Xtreme snare.
 
> Have you make further adjustment to it lately?  How about double or 
buzz 
> rolls?? Are they pretty authentic to real drums in your opinion?

I rarely make trigger adjustments to the AX14s anymore, only voice 
changes. Since it's on its own stand, it doesn't need a lot of 
tweaking once you've found the parameters that work. You have to 
spend quite a bit of money to get electronic snare-drum dynamics to 
approximate, to any degree, the subtle dynamics of an acoustic, but 
the AX14s will certainly give you full double-stroke capability 
through the DTX or Xpress modules, except at an extremely low 
velocity (I double-stroke and buzz a lot). By the way, the AX14s is 
supposed to be capable of positional sensing (accurate sound based on 
where the snare is hit) through the Roland TD8 and 10, and possibly 
the discontinued Xtreme; it's debatable. Although the DTX and Xpress 
modules technically don't support positional sensing, you might be 
able to achieve something like it by using the AX14s' intrinsic 
sensitivity to its advantage. If you set a relatively high gain, and 
low min. velocity (with the AX14s on a separate stand), you can get a 
reduced volume level at the edges of the drum that is not totally 
unlike how an acoustic snare behaves near the lugs. Experiment.
> 
> Now for the cymbal, I haven't investigated the Zenbal 14" before. I 
> like the fact that it can be a dual zone chokable thing. I wonder 
if 
> the feel is good though! In the product description, it 
> says "Separate center and edge sounds".  Does it mean the edge and 
> the bell trigger one sound and then the face triggers the other?  
> That will be cool!!  Also, I assume the original Yamaha cymbal arm 
> will fit this thing, right?  

Unlike the AX14s, the Pintech Zenbal gum-rubber cymbal is a stereo 
model that will provide two voices in a dedicated stereo input with a 
stereo cable. Compared to the Yamaha stereo cymbals, which it 
resembles in principle, it has a more authentic feel; in fact, it 
swings. Like all stereo cymbals, its sounds are triggered on bow and 
edge (where the choke is also located). If the bell makes any sound 
at all, it's the sound of the center, where the cymbal's piezo pickup 
is located, but it's not wired for anything specific itself. Dual-
zone cymbals--the double-mono variety, like the AX14s--divide their 
sounds between bell and bow. Roland's higher-end cymbals are capable 
of edge, bow, and bell through the TD10 with partcular settings. 
Yamaha is rumored to be coming up with a similar design that will 
probably work through a stereo input like the three-sound snare on 
the XpressII.
 
> The hi-hat pad was what I was referring to.  Sure enough, I love 
the 
> Visu-Lite's design.  The price might be a bit out of my range.  So 
I 
> might need to wait a bit and see what other companies have to offer.
> 
> Overall, your feedback is well appreciated and I will let you guys 
> know my 2 cents of these products once I try them.

Please let us know. Equipment reviews through various modules are 
invaluable.

Ed