Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Hi All 

I've just sold my 5 year old Yamaha DTX v2 kit and am currently
contemplating either a DTXPRESS III Special or a Roland TD-6S. I'm
going to take a look at the DTXPRESS III in more detail at the local
Yamaha branch in the next couple of days but would be interested in
comments on the following: 

a) How easy is it to packup and move? Moving my old DTX was a pain in
the backside and the pictures show the new kits nicely folding away.
Wondering if the new setup is really any easier? How long to break it
down and put it back up again - that sort of thing

b) Cymbals. Going to search this board a bit more but wondering just
how good the new cymbals are. 

Many thanks for your thoughts

Ian
Nagoya, Japan

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Cottee" <icottee@b...> wrote:
> Hi All 
> 
> I've just sold my 5 year old Yamaha DTX v2 kit and am currently
> contemplating either a DTXPRESS III Special or a Roland TD-6S. I'm
> going to take a look at the DTXPRESS III in more detail at the local
> Yamaha branch in the next couple of days but would be interested in
> comments on the following: 
> 
> a) How easy is it to packup and move? Moving my old DTX was a pain 
in
> the backside and the pictures show the new kits nicely folding away.
> Wondering if the new setup is really any easier? How long to break 
it
> down and put it back up again - that sort of thing
> 
> b) Cymbals. Going to search this board a bit more but wondering just
> how good the new cymbals are. 

Hi Ian,

No feedback about the collapsible rack has arrived as yet, but from 
the look of it, it can hardly fail to better the DTX v.2's or any 
other Yamaha rack for convenience. We know a lot about the new round 
cymbals, except how they play. Again, no one I know actually has one 
yet, but they swing and seem to respond much more realistically than 
the ones that you're used to playing. Check out the video from NAMM 
at Harmony Central. By the way, as we figured out yesterday, the 
DTXPIII module will have Motif sounds.

Ed

"Ed wrote: By the way, as we figured out yesterday, the 
> DTXPIII module will have Motif sounds."
> 
> 
Ed,

I sent an email to Yamaha to try and clarify to what extent the Motif sounds
are used on the DTXpress III and the DTXtreme IIS. The DTXpress III video
only indicates that some of the "cymbal" sounds are Motif based. Considering
that most of the new sounds in the module (from comparing the two manuals)
are in the cymbal/hihat sound catagories, I would be inclined to believe
that few and any of the other instruments other than the cymbals are
borrowed from the Motif keyboards in the DTXpress III. 

OGD
> 
> 
 
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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
> "Ed wrote: By the way, as we figured out yesterday, the 
> > DTXPIII module will have Motif sounds."
> > 
> > 
> Ed,
> 
> I sent an email to Yamaha to try and clarify to what extent the 
Motif sounds
> are used on the DTXpress III and the DTXtreme IIS. The DTXpress III 
video
> only indicates that some of the "cymbal" sounds are Motif based. 
Considering
> that most of the new sounds in the module (from comparing the two 
manuals)
> are in the cymbal/hihat sound catagories, I would be inclined to 
believe
> that few and any of the other instruments other than the cymbals are
> borrowed from the Motif keyboards in the DTXpress III. 

OGD,

Right. I seem to recall that the new sounds were only cymbals. But I 
think they were the most needed, anyway. I always liked the toms, 
kicks, and some of the snares.

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:

> Hi Ian,
> 
> No feedback about the collapsible rack has arrived as yet, but from 
> the look of it, it can hardly fail to better the DTX v.2's or any 
> other Yamaha rack for convenience. We know a lot about the new
round 
> cymbals, except how they play. Again, no one I know actually has
one 
> yet, but they swing and seem to respond much more realistically
than 
> the ones that you're used to playing. Check out the video from NAMM 
> at Harmony Central. By the way, as we figured out yesterday, the 
> DTXPIII module will have Motif sounds.
> 
> Ed


Ed 

Many thanks for the feedback. I'm going into Yamaha tomorrow and I
might be able to persuade them to let me fold a kit up and I'll get a
chance to give the cymbals a good playing with. Any more comments
welcomed before then and I'll comment back afterwards

oh, the agony of choice

Ian

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Cottee" <icottee@b...> wrote:
> Many thanks for the feedback. I'm going into Yamaha tomorrow and I
> might be able to persuade them to let me fold a kit up and I'll get 
a
> chance to give the cymbals a good playing with. Any more comments
> welcomed before then and I'll comment back afterwards
> 
> oh, the agony of choice

Ian,

How do you hold up under the strain (grin)? Take good notes. We'll 
expect a full report by evening. Comparisons of the sounds in the new 
module with any others that are in your repetoire, even if only based 
on first brief impressions, are most welcome.

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> I seem to recall that the new sounds were only cymbals. But I 
> think they were the most needed, anyway. I always liked the toms, 
> kicks, and some of the snares.

Agreed.  Hence my plan to run a II and a III together with cymbals 
on the III and drums on the II.  The kicks, toms and snares have 
never been a problem in my opinion.

Chris

--- Chris wrote:

> Agreed.  Hence my plan to run a II and a III together with cymbals 
> on the III and drums on the II.  The kicks, toms and snares have 
> never been a problem in my opinion.

Only issue you'll have there, as OGD has pointed out in the past, is 
that controlling cross-talk may be tricky. Ideally, you want pads on 
the same rack section to be on the same module.

Stewart

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "moosetication" 
<moosetication@y...> wrote:

> Only issue you'll have there, as OGD has pointed out in the past, 
is 
> that controlling cross-talk may be tricky. Ideally, you want pads 
on 
> the same rack section to be on the same module.

A good point and something I hadn't considered.  At least it'll give 
me an excuse for more endless tinkering so I have a 'genuine reason' 
for not getting on and doing anything musically productive. :-)

Chris

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <proguk@h...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "moosetication" 
> <moosetication@y...> wrote:
> 
> > Only issue you'll have there, as OGD has pointed out in the past, 
> is 
> > that controlling cross-talk may be tricky. Ideally, you want pads 
> on 
> > the same rack section to be on the same module.
> 
> A good point and something I hadn't considered.  At least it'll 
give 
> me an excuse for more endless tinkering so I have a 'genuine 
reason' 
> for not getting on and doing anything musically productive. :-)

A lot of crosstalk is definitely a drag, but a little crosstalk left 
over after a bit of tinkering ain't so bad. I actually like the small 
amount of crosstalk that I get on my ddrum module from the pads 
connected to my Yamaha. It actually sounds cool, and entirely 
realistic in an acoustic sense. I could probably eliminate it 
further, but I don't really care to. But then again, that's ddrum for 
you. Incidentally, I don't get any crosstalk on the pads connected to 
the Yamaha, and they are spread all over my rack. The main reason is 
that I can keep the gain and min. velocity relatively low because 
they are all cymbal voices that I never strike more than once at a 
time, and usually very hard. 

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <proguk@h...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "moosetication" 
> <moosetication@y...> wrote:
> 
> > Only issue you'll have there, as OGD has pointed out in the past, 
> is 
> > that controlling cross-talk may be tricky. Ideally, you want pads 
> on 
> > the same rack section to be on the same module.
> 
> A good point and something I hadn't considered.  At least it'll 
give 
> me an excuse for more endless tinkering so I have a 'genuine 
reason' 
> for not getting on and doing anything musically productive. :-)
> 
> Chris
---------------
Yes but what about all those jobs round the house? If you've a wife 
you'll know what I mean :-)

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jonddf" <jonddf@a...> wrote:

> Yes but what about all those jobs round the house? If you've a 
wife 
> you'll know what I mean :-)

100% single here.  There's just me, my Darth Vader helmet and my 
lightsaber.  Oops, I've said too much! :-)

OK, yesterday I tried out the DTXPRESS III Special in the main Yamaha
store here in Nagoya. You'll have to remember that I've been playing a
DTX v2 for a long while and so comparisons on sounds etc are not going
to be easy to make. We are basically dealing with five years of
evolution. 

I checked out the cymbal sounds and they were nice, good even - but
not (to my ear) anything very special. I did the like the hardware of
the cymbals - especially the three zone ride cymbal. It felt quite
natural to play and had a good feel about it. The bass drum felt good
(I've been playing with the old hard design for a long while and the
warm thud that the new one produces is definately a big improvement -
I guess that was part of the DTXPRESS II as well. 

The snare I wasn't too impressed with but it may just have needed some
getting used to. I found it too easy to trigger the wrong sound (or
not to trigger the sound on the rim at all). Maybe something wrong
with their setup. I never played the stereo pad on my old kit as a
snare but used to have it to the left and slightly behind the hi-hat
where I would play it with a pair of conga sounds assigned to it. For
that reason I may just not be able to play it properly. 

The biggest disappointment for me was the new hi-hat. I could not get
that thing to behave itself and it didn't feel right. That's a dim
thing to say when I've been using a normal pad as a hihat for the last
five years but in that arrangement my brain knew it wasn't real and
kind of dealt with it. This one looks like a real hihat but doesn't
behave like one and it irked me. I also couldn't (not matter what I
adjusted) get the things to trigger in the closed position correctly
without really forcing my foot down hard. I played the standard set
which has the normal (simple pad) hihat and I have to say that it felt
a lot easier  to play for me. 

I've decided to go for the Roland TD-6KV-S instead. The specific
reasons are:

   a) The mesh snare feels a lot more natural and responsive
   b) The main pads are dual trigger for tom rim shots
   c) The cymbal sounds sound nicer to my ears and the kits
      generally seemed to have a more natural sound

On a more general note I found that playing the DTXPRESS seemed more
wearning to me. I'm not sure if that is down to the Roland snare of
the other pads as well but playing DTXPRESS certainly felt more like
hard work. With the Roland I just sort of gelled with it more (which
was surprising considering I've been playing a Yamaha set for five
years).  

Anyway, for the record those are my thoughts. It's all subjective but
in my mind I think I've made the right decision for me. Thanks to all
of you who gave me feedback and I'll still be using the DTX v2 at my
friends setup.

Ian

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Cottee" <icottee@b...> wrote:
> Anyway, for the record those are my thoughts. It's all subjective 
but
> in my mind I think I've made the right decision for me. Thanks to 
all
> of you who gave me feedback and I'll still be using the DTX v2 at my
> friends setup.

Ian,

Thanks for the report. Whether it's subjective or not, time will 
tell. I hope that we can get a bunch of reviews from early adopters, 
and that at least a few of them will also share their impressions of 
the Roland TD6V. It's possible that set-up was responsible for at 
least some of your displeasure with the hi hat. Since the two-switch 
snare isn't new to the III, and veterans seem to like it, the false 
triggering that you had might be attributable to extraneous causes. I 
agree that Yamaha might have given a rim switch to the three toms in 
the SP kit. Anyway, glad to hear that you found something that works 
for you.

Ed

Thanks Ed. I was worried my comments might come over as being too negative which 
I didn't mean them to be. I'm sure that many people will do the same comparison and 
head for the DTXpress instead. I certainly have the feeling that the DTXpress III brain 
is a nicer beast in terms of functions than the Roland. 

One thing I have to say about the Yamaha kit which is an unknown for me on the 
Roland side is I trust Yamaha to build their stuff well and for it to cope with whatever I 
throw at it. The DTX v2 has worked without an issue in five years and considering the 
mistreatment it got - that's pretty impressive. 

If I find anything very good or bad about the Roland compared with the Yamaha 
equipment (when I've used it in anger) I'll post it here in the next month. I do feel that 
the DTXpress III could benefit from some slicker internet resource on the Yamaha 
pages. The Japanese pages don't have much info and give broken links to audio files 
that are supposed to demonstrate the product. The US pages don't show the III at all 
yet. Roland's info was, on the other hand, far superior making good use (unusually) of 
Flash. 

Anyway, time will tell. Once again many thanks for the help give here. It's nice to 
report that both the Yamaha and Roland camps have shown nothing less than 
complete respect for each other in all my dealings with them. I'm sure there will be 
some Yamaha kit on my ... er ... kit, at some point in the future.

Ian

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Cottee" <icottee@b...> wrote:
> One thing I have to say about the Yamaha kit which is an unknown 
for me on the 
> Roland side is I trust Yamaha to build their stuff well and for it 
to cope with whatever I 
> throw at it. The DTX v2 has worked without an issue in five years 
and considering the 
> mistreatment it got - that's pretty impressive. 

Over the years, we've come happily to view Yamaha as an accessible 
and responsive company. We've had many successful dealings with them 
in the past, and the relationship only promises to become more 
mutually beneficial in the future. We feel secure enough with Yamaha 
that we have no qualms about making recommendations that we consider 
valuable to all concerned. 
> 
> If I find anything very good or bad about the Roland compared with 
the Yamaha 
> equipment (when I've used it in anger) I'll post it here in the 
next month. I do feel that 
> the DTXpress III could benefit from some slicker internet resource 
on the Yamaha 
> pages. The Japanese pages don't have much info and give broken 
links to audio files 
> that are supposed to demonstrate the product. The US pages don't 
show the III at all 
> yet. Roland's info was, on the other hand, far superior making good 
use (unusually) of 
> Flash. 

A valid complaint, and one that's been voiced here not a few times. 
yamaha is not working as hard as it might to promote its products. 
The reason is understandable, to some extent, but frustrating 
nonetheless to many people who have a genuine interest and investment 
in them.

> 
> Anyway, time will tell. Once again many thanks for the help give 
here. It's nice to 
> report that both the Yamaha and Roland camps have shown nothing 
less than 
> complete respect for each other in all my dealings with them. I'm 
sure there will be 
> some Yamaha kit on my ... er ... kit, at some point in the future.

We look forward to any update that you might like to send our way. 
I'm curious about the TD6V module. The original TD6 was a good one 
(possibly my favorite Roland); I'm not getting the idea that the new 
version represents much of a change beyond cosmetics.

Ed

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> We look forward to any update that you might like to send our way. 
> I'm curious about the TD6V module. The original TD6 was a good one 
> (possibly my favorite Roland); I'm not getting the idea that the 
new 
> version represents much of a change beyond cosmetics.

From my current (limited) understanding, I believe it has the usual 
claims for 'improved' sounds and kits from the plain TD6 plus support 
for the new dual trigger pads. And it looks different. Frankly I 
prefer the look of the DTXpress III's brain - the TD6V looks like a 
throwaway from an early episode of Star Trek. However - the proof of 
the pudding is in the eating. I shall see how it goes.

By the way (and getting back on topic), thinking about the DTXv2 - 
could I use a DTXpress II or III brain on that?

Ian

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Cottee" <icottee@b...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> By the way (and getting back on topic), thinking about the DTXv2 - 
> could I use a DTXpress II or III brain on that?

The pads were redesigned a little (and I don't mean just to 
incorporate a second switch in two cases), but there's no inherent 
reason why the DTX pads wouldn't fire through the DTXPII or III 
module. If you want to see how the PCY80S differs from the PCY65S, 
take a look at OGD's pics of them opened up in the Photos section. At 
the center of each pad is a jack, some wire, and a piezo, and if you 
hit a piezo so connected, you create a signal. 

Ed