Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

hi,
i have a dtxpress2, and have expanded my kit by buying a single zone 
cymbal pad, a dual zone cymbal and a tom pad. I used the dual zone 
to replace the single zone ride cymbal and then connected the ride 
and my new single into the 9/10 input. All of this works fine.

the tom pad is plugged into the pad in on the kick pad, but whatever 
id do, i can;t get it to work.
i've tried differnt cable, different tompads etc. i was convinced 
that either the dtx or the kick pad were damaged, and i worked out 
it's not the dtx by plugging a dual zone cymbal into the kick input 
(i got 2 sounds). This leaves me with the conclusion that something 
is wrong with the pad in on the kick pad. 

can anyone help me out on this?

cheers

Jamie,
 
The extra input plug on the KP65 will only work if the KP65 is plugged into
input 9/10. If you have the KP65 plugged into input 1, only the KP65 will
sound. 
 
You will need to either get a Y-splitter cable (insert cable - two mono
plugs to a stereo plug) and plug both of the single zone pads into input
9/10
 
or
 
move the KP65 up to input 9/10, then plug one of the single zone pads into
the input jack on the KP65. The other single zone pad would then plug into
input no. 1. 
There is a setting in the utility menu that will allow for the signals from
input 1 to be sent to input 9 and the signal from input 9 to be sent to
input no. 1, so you won't have to reprogram you kick drum from input 1 up to
input 9.
 
OGD

   _____  

From: jamieukonline
hi,
i have a dtxpress2, and have expanded my kit by buying a single zone 
cymbal pad, a dual zone cymbal and a tom pad. I used the dual zone 
to replace the single zone ride cymbal and then connected the ride 
and my new single into the 9/10 input. All of this works fine.

the tom pad is plugged into the pad in on the kick pad, but whatever 
id do, i can;t get it to work.
i've tried differnt cable, different tompads etc. i was convinced 
that either the dtx or the kick pad were damaged, and i worked out 
it's not the dtx by plugging a dual zone cymbal into the kick input 
(i got 2 sounds). This leaves me with the conclusion that something 
is wrong with the pad in on the kick pad. 

can anyone help me out on this?

cheers






 
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Is it different on the DTxpress III?  I haven't played with it 
thouroughly but I will... But so far if I plug in a cable to that 
extra input it triggers a cow bell on input 1 and the trigger shows 
up as ktR maybe or KickR something like that... so it seems that it's 
dual at least on the xpress III.

Gilligan

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
> Jamie,
>  
> The extra input plug on the KP65 will only work if the KP65 is 
plugged into
> input 9/10. If you have the KP65 plugged into input 1, only the 
KP65 will
> sound. 
>  
> You will need to either get a Y-splitter cable (insert cable - two 
mono
> plugs to a stereo plug) and plug both of the single zone pads into 
input
> 9/10
>  
> or
>  
> move the KP65 up to input 9/10, then plug one of the single zone 
pads into
> the input jack on the KP65. The other single zone pad would then 
plug into
> input no. 1. 
> There is a setting in the utility menu that will allow for the 
signals from
> input 1 to be sent to input 9 and the signal from input 9 to be 
sent to
> input no. 1, so you won't have to reprogram you kick drum from 
input 1 up to
> input 9.
>  
> OGD
> 
>    _____  
> 
> From: jamieukonline
> hi,
> i have a dtxpress2, and have expanded my kit by buying a single 
zone 
> cymbal pad, a dual zone cymbal and a tom pad. I used the dual zone 
> to replace the single zone ride cymbal and then connected the ride 
> and my new single into the 9/10 input. All of this works fine.
> 
> the tom pad is plugged into the pad in on the kick pad, but 
whatever 
> id do, i can;t get it to work.
> i've tried differnt cable, different tompads etc. i was convinced 
> that either the dtx or the kick pad were damaged, and i worked out 
> it's not the dtx by plugging a dual zone cymbal into the kick input 
> (i got 2 sounds). This leaves me with the conclusion that something 
> is wrong with the pad in on the kick pad. 
> 
> can anyone help me out on this?
> 
> cheers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
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other
> use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information 
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--- Kevin Richard wrote:
> Is it different on the DTxpress III?

No.

> But so far if I plug in a cable to that 
> extra input it triggers a cow bell on input
> 1 and the trigger shows up as ktR maybe or
> KickR something like that... so it seems that it's 
> dual at least on the xpress III.

No, the kick pad input (#1) is stereo (piezo and rim switch) on the 
II and III. Only 9/10 is a dual mono input, and you will need to use 
that input if you want to use the splitter built into the KP65. You 
are correct that by default the kick rim on many kits is set up as a 
cowbell.

Stewart

thanks for your suggestion, 
i originally thought i'd be able to plug 2 single zone pads into any
port that supported a dual zone pad but this is not the case. only
the 9/10 input supports this.
i'm already using the 9/10 plug for 2 single zone cymbals and i have
no where else to plug my extra tom in.

does anyone know how i can make the dtx think i'm plugging in a dual
zone pad rather than 2 singles. maybe i can trick it into thinking
one of them is a rim. 

i've spent hours palying around in trigger set up, and i can't work
out how to do it.

many thanks

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
> Jamie,
>  
> The extra input plug on the KP65 will only work if the KP65 is 
plugged into
> input 9/10. If you have the KP65 plugged into input 1, only the 
KP65 will
> sound. 
>  
> You will need to either get a Y-splitter cable (insert cable - two 
mono
> plugs to a stereo plug) and plug both of the single zone pads into 
input
> 9/10
>  
> or
>  
> move the KP65 up to input 9/10, then plug one of the single zone 
pads into
> the input jack on the KP65. The other single zone pad would then 
plug into
> input no. 1. 
> There is a setting in the utility menu that will allow for the 
signals from
> input 1 to be sent to input 9 and the signal from input 9 to be 
sent to
> input no. 1, so you won't have to reprogram you kick drum from 
input 1 up to
> input 9.
>  
> OGD
> 
>    _____  
> 
> From: jamieukonline
> hi,
> i have a dtxpress2, and have expanded my kit by buying a single 
zone 
> cymbal pad, a dual zone cymbal and a tom pad. I used the dual zone 
> to replace the single zone ride cymbal and then connected the ride 
> and my new single into the 9/10 input. All of this works fine.
> 
> the tom pad is plugged into the pad in on the kick pad, but 
whatever 
> id do, i can;t get it to work.
> i've tried differnt cable, different tompads etc. i was convinced 
> that either the dtx or the kick pad were damaged, and i worked out 
> it's not the dtx by plugging a dual zone cymbal into the kick input

> (i got 2 sounds). This leaves me with the conclusion that something

> is wrong with the pad in on the kick pad. 
> 
> can anyone help me out on this?
> 
> cheers



	
	
		
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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jamie@j..." <jamieukonline@y...> 
wrote:
> thanks for your suggestion, 
> i originally thought i'd be able to plug 2 single zone pads into any
> port that supported a dual zone pad but this is not the case. only
> the 9/10 input supports this.
> i'm already using the 9/10 plug for 2 single zone cymbals and i have
> no where else to plug my extra tom in.
> 
> does anyone know how i can make the dtx think i'm plugging in a dual
> zone pad rather than 2 singles. maybe i can trick it into thinking
> one of them is a rim. 
> 
> i've spent hours palying around in trigger set up, and i can't work
> out how to do it.

Jamie,

One of the popular sports on this board over the years has been 
discussing the feasibility of devising an electronic device that 
would split a piezo/rim input into two distinct pads, thus providing 
a relatively inexpensive way to add inputs (for the latest threads on 
the subject, search under "magic box"). For a long time, it seemed to 
be as elusive as squaring the circle. But then along comes an 
electronically savvy member named Keith Raper, who takes to the 
project like a drummer to fire water. It may still take a while for 
it to see the light of day and find its rightful marketing place. The 
point that I'm making, however, is that splitting a stereo input is 
not simply a matter of clever cabling, but the prospect for adding 
inputs to the DTXpress, as well as other modules with stereo 
capability, is--thanks to Keith--looking better all of the time. 
Keith is finding out that it may not be quite as straightforward as 
he might have hoped, even with his stunning expertise, but our once 
mythical "magic box" is now on the verge of reality. Stewart 
(Moostication) has already run some tests on a prototype and made 
recommendations.

Ed

thanks for your help guys.
its kinda annoying though. 
i bought the a new dual cymbal, a single cymbal, and a tom pad, and
i'm not gonna be able to use eith the tom or the single.

i really should have looked more into it before buying.

i thought a dual zone cymbal pad worked the same as two mono pads, so
i thought i could split any input that would take a dual pad into 2
mono pads.

i also thought that the kick pad was more than just a splitter. 
i have 4 splitters including the kick pad, and i can only use one of them!


	
	
		
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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jamie@j..." <jamieukonline@y...> 
wrote:
> thanks for your help guys.
> its kinda annoying though. 
> i bought the a new dual cymbal, a single cymbal, and a tom pad, and
> i'm not gonna be able to use eith the tom or the single.
> 
> i really should have looked more into it before buying.
> 
> i thought a dual zone cymbal pad worked the same as two mono pads, 
so
> i thought i could split any input that would take a dual pad into 2
> mono pads.
> 
> i also thought that the kick pad was more than just a splitter. 
> i have 4 splitters including the kick pad, and i can only use one 
of them!

Jamie,

You need to get up to speed on the difference between "stereo" 
and "dual-zone" in e-drumming lingo. Unfortunately, the term "dual-
zone" is often abused to mean "stereo," even by people who know 
better, partly because the term "stereo" is such a misnomer in this 
context. The stereo pads--usually made of rubber--consist of a main 
pickup (usually a piezo) and at least one rim switch (an FSR), which 
doesn't access a sound on its own but simply regulates the sound that 
the main pickup will "request." Leaving aside Keith's invention for 
now, the stereo pads permit two sounds (rim/head or edge/bow) only 
through a single stereo input; you can't split them with a Y adapter. 
Dual-zone pads--usually not rubber--require two distinct inputs, 
stereo or otherwise, for both sounds, which are independent of each 
other (input 9/10 on the DTXP2U is really two mono inputs; other 
modules have the same sort of coupling through a single jack). 

That's the crash course, when you have some time, browse through the 
archives under "stereo" or "dual zone" and see what you can pick up. 
But we're here to help. I hope that you can find a use for those 
extra items, or your dealer will take them back--unless you want to 
keep them for future developments.

Ed

I agree with you guys... I'm just wondering how/what triggered the 
cowbell (rim) sound when I was plugging something (now I can't repeat 
it or recall what it was) into the "extra" input.... BTW, what is 
that input for if you can't trigger anything with it?

Something caused the cowbell to sound but now I can't duplicate it... 
but i'm not crazy... otherwise I wouldn't have known their to be a 
cowbell there.

Gilligan

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "moosetication" <moosetication@y...> 
wrote:
> --- Kevin Richard wrote:
> > Is it different on the DTxpress III?
> 
> No.
> 
> > But so far if I plug in a cable to that 
> > extra input it triggers a cow bell on input
> > 1 and the trigger shows up as ktR maybe or
> > KickR something like that... so it seems that it's 
> > dual at least on the xpress III.
> 
> No, the kick pad input (#1) is stereo (piezo and rim switch) on the 
> II and III. Only 9/10 is a dual mono input, and you will need to 
use 
> that input if you want to use the splitter built into the KP65. You 
> are correct that by default the kick rim on many kits is set up as 
a 

> cowbell.
> 
> Stewart

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Richard" <kevin_richard@b...> 
wrote:
> I agree with you guys... I'm just wondering how/what triggered the 
> cowbell (rim) sound when I was plugging something (now I can't 
repeat 
> it or recall what it was) into the "extra" input.... BTW, what is 
> that input for if you can't trigger anything with it?
> 
> Something caused the cowbell to sound but now I can't duplicate 
it... 
> but i'm not crazy... otherwise I wouldn't have known their to be a 
> cowbell there.

Gilligan,

I may be coming to this thread in the middle and missing something, 
but I seem to recall that input 9 or 10 may also have a cowbell 
programmed by default. In other words, when you plug the kick into 
9/10 and another pad into the kick, you might get a cowbell sound 
from one of them until you change it. 

There are no inputs without triggering capability. However, access to 
input 9/10 requires either the use of a TRS "Y" splitter for two 
separate pads or a single dual-zone pad with two distinct output 
jacks; the use of the kick pad as a splitter for itself and another 
pad; or a dual-zone pad (like Yamaha's BP-80, not a stereo pad like 
the TP-65) that has a single output on a stereo cable. If you insert 
any cable into 9/10 from a mono pad, you'll get only one sound, and 
one half of the double input will remain idle. Did I clear anything 
up or make it worse?

Ed

> Keith is finding out that it may not be quite as straightforward as 
> he might have hoped, even with his stunning expertise, but our once 
> mythical "magic box" is now on the verge of reality. Stewart 
> (Moostication) has already run some tests on a prototype and made 
> recommendations.
> 
> Ed

Thanks for the kind words, Ed.  The prototype "magic box" is probably
suitable for uses such as adding simple percussion sounds, but needs
more work for more sophisticated uses (toms etc).  I have the drumming
skills of a chinpamzee (apologies if there are any chimpanzees reading
this), so it seemed fine to me, but Stewart has pointed out the
limitations to a real drummer so I will sort those out soon. 
Unfortunately earning a living has been getting in the way recently so
work has been delayed.  I am sure I will solve the problems.  Some of
the problem is caused by the fact that the Yamaha DTXpress module is
expecting a rim pad on the rim input, so isn't expecting you to be
doing drum rolls on them.

Keith.

--- Keith  wrote:
> Some of the problem is caused by the fact that the
> Yamaha DTXpress module is expecting a rim pad on
> the rim input, so isn't expecting you to be
> doing drum rolls on them.

For observers, the issue I found is that moderately fast rolls 
wouldn't track properly on a pad connected to the magic box "rim" 
input.

Prompted by your comments above, Keith, I just tried to carry off a 
roll on the rim of my snare. Sadly, it mistracks just as it did 
through the magic box. I think you are right, this may be a module 
limitation. What a pain!

Stewart

Now I'm really confused... just kidding ;)

My kick is definately hooked to input 1 and I didn't have ANYTHING 
into 9/10 but I was getting the cowbell sound and the voice was also 
changing to the KickR (obviously R for rim) on the display... I'm 
just not sure how I did that... if I recall correctly (and I'm 
probably not!) I was trying to use a REALLY cheap mic as a make shiv 
trigger and was gonna test it on the kick input I'm not sure if that 
was before or after I fixed a broken wire or both!  The mic has a 
mono 1/8" jack and I was using a stereo 1/4" to stereo 1/8" adaptor 
to make the connection... as I would slide it in and out it some how 
trigged the cow bell a few times.  I can't repeat it now but I did do 
it twice, once again to show my buddy but now it won't do?

My real question was what is that jack for... and I think you were 
saying that if you used it on 9/10 it is a splitter for the 10 side 
of that input.  and then you could hook up a "stereo" (right?) pad on 
the 1 input to take advantage of a rim'd pad.  Right?

I think I've gone and confused myself now!
Gilligan

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> I may be coming to this thread in the middle and missing something, 
> but I seem to recall that input 9 or 10 may also have a cowbell 
> programmed by default. In other words, when you plug the kick into 
> 9/10 and another pad into the kick, you might get a cowbell sound 
> from one of them until you change it. 
> 
> There are no inputs without triggering capability. However, access 
to 
> input 9/10 requires either the use of a TRS "Y" splitter for two 
> separate pads or a single dual-zone pad with two distinct output 
> jacks; the use of the kick pad as a splitter for itself and another 
> pad; or a dual-zone pad (like Yamaha's BP-80, not a stereo pad like 
> the TP-65) that has a single output on a stereo cable. If you 
insert 

> any cable into 9/10 from a mono pad, you'll get only one sound, and 
> one half of the double input will remain idle. Did I clear anything 
> up or make it worse?
> 
> Ed

--- Kevin Richard  wrote:
> My kick is definately hooked to input 1 and I didn't
> have ANYTHING into 9/10 but I was getting the cowbell
> sound and the voice was also changing to the KickR ...
> as I would slide [the connector] in and out it some how 
> trigged the cow bell a few times.

No mystery. The electrical noise generated when you did that would 
have been enough for the module to think it had detected a rim 
switch. Just coincidence, nothing you can rely on.

> My real question was what is that jack for... and I
> think you were saying that if you used it on 9/10
> it is a splitter for the 10 side of that input.

Correct. You would connect the KP65 to 9/10 using a stereo cable, 
and plug a mono pad into the input on the KP65, which 
effectively "splits" the mono pad to 10, with the kick on 9. The 
module has a setting somewhere which "swaps" the standard kick pad 
settings from 1 to 9, so you don't have to reprogram any kits.

> ... and then you could hook up a "stereo" (right?) pad on 
> the 1 input to take advantage of a rim'd pad.  Right?

Right.

Stewart

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Richard" <kevin_richard@b...> 
wrote:
> Now I'm really confused... just kidding ;)
> 
> My kick is definately hooked to input 1 and I didn't have ANYTHING 
> into 9/10 but I was getting the cowbell sound and the voice was 
also 
> changing to the KickR (obviously R for rim) on the display... I'm 
> just not sure how I did that... if I recall correctly (and I'm 
> probably not!) I was trying to use a REALLY cheap mic as a make 
shiv 
> trigger and was gonna test it on the kick input I'm not sure if 
that 
> was before or after I fixed a broken wire or both!  The mic has a 
> mono 1/8" jack and I was using a stereo 1/4" to stereo 1/8" adaptor 
> to make the connection... as I would slide it in and out it some 
how 
> trigged the cow bell a few times.  

That's much more interesting than what I thought was happening. 
Somehow your cheap mono mic on a stereo adapter was able to fool the 
module into thinking that a rim switch had been activated momentarily
--maybe the kind of quick incidental signals that are more apt to 
come from a mic than a typical trigger.

> My real question was what is that jack for... and I think you were 
> saying that if you used it on 9/10 it is a splitter for the 10 side 
> of that input.  and then you could hook up a "stereo" (right?) pad 
on 
> the 1 input to take advantage of a rim'd pad.  Right?

Right. Using the kick and a companion pad in 9/10 allows you to free 
input 1 for a stereo pad. The only drawback is that the factory kits, 
if you use them, will be expecting the kick on input 1.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "moosetication" <moosetication@y...> 
wrote:

> The module has a setting somewhere which "swaps" the standard kick 
pad 
> settings from 1 to 9, so you don't have to reprogram any kits.

Stewart,

It makes the swap even for the factory kits? 

Ed

This would be very interesting... well not that I have really any 
stereo pads to take advantage of really but still interesting.

Gilligan

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "moosetication" 
<moosetication@y...> 
> wrote:
> 
> > The module has a setting somewhere which "swaps" the standard 
kick 

> pad 
> > settings from 1 to 9, so you don't have to reprogram any kits.
> 
> Stewart,
> 
> It makes the swap even for the factory kits? 
> 
> Ed

--- Ed wrote:
> It makes the swap even for the factory kits? 

Yup.

Trig common settings, In Excg.

Stewart

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Richard" <kevin_richard@b...> 
wrote:1/8" adaptor 
> to make the connection... as I would slide it in and out it some 
how 
> trigged the cow bell a few times. 
\

Keith,

If you are inserting the jack into a pad with the module turned on, 
you will get a sound. The sound comes from the fact that you are 
shorting across the contacts between the plug and the jack. 
Unplugging any plug from any pad when the module is on will trigger 
in most case trigger a sound that is assigned to the rim or pad. I 
noticed that early on, which is why you should always turn down the 
module volume (or better yet turn off the module) before plugging or 
unplugging a cord to a pad.

OGD

It's Kevin actually and what I was saying was when I plug a cord into 
the additional INPUT not OUTPUT on the kick pad it triggers the rim 
sound... I have dabbled in electronics all my life (I even sell a 
communication cable that I fabricate, on another group)  But from 
what I'm understanding there is no reason for the "rim" to be 
triggered from the second input.

Just thought I should clear that up,
Gilligan

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" <rdamon@m...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Richard" 
<kevin_richard@b...> 
> wrote:1/8" adaptor 
> > to make the connection... as I would slide it in and out it some 
> how 
> > trigged the cow bell a few times. 
> \
> 
> Keith,
> 
> If you are inserting the jack into a pad with the module turned on, 
> you will get a sound. The sound comes from the fact that you are 
> shorting across the contacts between the plug and the jack. 
> Unplugging any plug from any pad when the module is on will trigger 
> in most case trigger a sound that is assigned to the rim or pad. I 
> noticed that early on, which is why you should always turn down the 
> module volume (or better yet turn off the module) before plugging 
or 

> unplugging a cord to a pad.
> 
> OGD

--- Kevin Richard wrote:
> But from what I'm understanding there is no reason
> for the "rim" to be triggered from the second input.

Yes, there is. The "second input" is wired to the rim (sleeve) 
conductor of the KP65 stereo output. If you momentarily short it 
while plugging it in, it will "fool" the module into thinking the 
rim has been triggered.

Stewart

Kevin,
 
Sorry about the name confusion, it's been really hectic at work and the mind
is in overload.
 
But I agree with Stewart, and this is what I was trying to point out. Within
the KP65, one lead and ground goes to input 9 and the other lead and
"common" ground goes to the input 10. When you pull a cable out it will in
most case, from my experience, short one of the leads across the ground and
thus trigger a sound. When you plug the KP65 output into inputs 9/10, there
is no "rim" switch available, so you cannot actually trigger a rim sound. 
 
(In fact the KP65 doesn't have a rim switch circuit within, as there is no
need for one, although the input 1 on the module does have the capability to
receive one.)
 
So, when you plug something into to "input" jack on the KP65, you are not
connecting to a "rim" switch, but instead you are connecting to the
lead/common ground associated with the input no. 10, assuming the KP65 is
plugged into input 9/10 at the module with a stereo cable (TRS).
 
If the KP65 is plugged into input no. 1 and you remove the cable, you would
still get a sound generated in most case, as the plug shorts across the
"rim" lead/common Ground. Since you must activate the pad piezo at the near
same time as you close the "rim" piezo for the "rim" switch to activate, it
is possible that if you carefully insert the cable, you may not trigger the
pad piezo on the KP65, because it is extreme well isolated from the PCB that
contains the 1/4" input phone jack within the KP65. If you use sufficent
force while inserting the jack, you could activate the pad piezo at the same
time that the "rim" lead/common ground is being shorted across, thus
activating the "KickR" voice.
 
OGD

   _____  

From: moosetication [mailto:moosetication@...] 


--- Kevin Richard wrote:
> But from what I'm understanding there is no reason
> for the "rim" to be triggered from the second input.

Yes, there is. The "second input" is wired to the rim (sleeve) 
conductor of the KP65 stereo output. If you momentarily short it 
while plugging it in, it will "fool" the module into thinking the 
rim has been triggered.

Stewart


 
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is it possible then to wire something up that means you can short
across it by hitting a pad.Is this the idea of the "magic box?"

sorry if i'm seeming really slow here, i don't know much about
electronics and i've only recently joined the group.


"If you use sufficent force while inserting the jack, you could
activate the pad piezo at the same time that the "rim" lead/common
ground is being shorted across, thus activating the "KickR" voice."

"The "second input" is wired to the rim (sleeve) 
conductor of the KP65 stereo output. If you momentarily short it 
while plugging it in, it will "fool" the module into thinking the 
rim has been triggered."





	
	
		
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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jamie@j..." <jamieukonline@y...> 
wrote:
> is it possible then to wire something up that means you can short
> across it by hitting a pad.Is this the idea of the "magic box?"
> 
> sorry if i'm seeming really slow here, i don't know much about
> electronics and i've only recently joined the group.
> 
> 
> "If you use sufficent force while inserting the jack, you could
> activate the pad piezo at the same time that the "rim" lead/common
> ground is being shorted across, thus activating the "KickR" voice."
> 
> "The "second input" is wired to the rim (sleeve) 
> conductor of the KP65 stereo output. If you momentarily short it 
> while plugging it in, it will "fool" the module into thinking the 
> rim has been triggered."

Jamie,

The shorting that sometimes causes a rim voice to fire is merely an 
ephemeral electrical artifact. Keith's version of the magic box is an 
attempt to control how the module senses a rim switch to create 
another input entirely from it. At this point, Keith's invention 
permits discrete percussive effects, but he is attempting to refine 
it so that faster successions of events on a pad via the rim function 
(that is, rolls and swells) will be possible. On its own, the module 
resists this kind of response for its rim function. My money is on 
Keith.

Ed

Yes, that is the intent of the Magic box. 
 
In order for the rim to trigger, the pad piezo must also trigger. For
example if you were to take a TP65S apart and physically locate the rubber
pad that contains the piezo remotely from the rim switch ribbons and then
just strike the rim switch, nothing would happen, no sound would be
generated, because the piezo did not pickup a vibration. Or if you
physically unplugged the two conductor jack from the PCB that connects the
pad piezo to the PCB, leaving the rim switches ribbons still connected to
the PCB, you could hit the ribbon switches all day long and nothing would
happen. If you look in the photo sections of this group you can see some of
the photos I took of the insides of the various pads, to help you visualize
a little better what I am trying to describe.
 
OGD

From: jamie@... 

is it possible then to wire something up that means you can short
across it by hitting a pad.Is this the idea of the "magic box?"


"If you use sufficent force while inserting the jack, you could
activate the pad piezo at the same time that the "rim" lead/common
ground is being shorted across, thus activating the "KickR" voice."

"The "second input" is wired to the rim (sleeve) 
conductor of the KP65 stereo output. If you momentarily short it 
while plugging it in, it will "fool" the module into thinking the 
rim has been triggered."





      
      
            
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--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "moosetication" <moosetication@y...>
wrote:
> --- Keith  wrote:
> > Some of the problem is caused by the fact that the
> > Yamaha DTXpress module is expecting a rim pad on
> > the rim input, so isn't expecting you to be
> > doing drum rolls on them.
> 
> For observers, the issue I found is that moderately fast rolls 
> wouldn't track properly on a pad connected to the magic box "rim" 
> input.
> 
> Prompted by your comments above, Keith, I just tried to carry off a 
> roll on the rim of my snare. Sadly, it mistracks just as it did 
> through the magic box. I think you are right, this may be a module 
> limitation. What a pain!
> 
> Stewart

I think there is a solution, but I haven't had the chance to test it
yet.  

Keith.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, rdamon@m... wrote:
> Yes, that is the intent of the Magic box. 
>  
> In order for the rim to trigger, the pad piezo must also trigger. For

Also, the timing of the rim switch is critical.  You can demonstrate
this by holding your snare rim switch closed (or cymbal) and wacking
the snare - you DON'T get the rim sound!  This all makes life very
complicated.

Keith.