Digital BW, The Print

Hello Paul,

  I have been working at a clear base for dye ink recently, although for a different reason than yours. In fact, I am targeting my research to maximum longevity of the print (rather than high D-max) and I am attempting to develop an inkjet based platinum print system that requires a base similar to that for dye ink. this is in order to dilute the platinum chemicals. After many attempts, I come up with three good clear bases:

1) 23% mono-ethylene Glycol - 13% Isopropilyc Alcohol - 64% water
2) 21% mono-ethylene Glycol - 12% Isopropilyc Alcohol - 8% Windex - 59% water 
3) 21% mono-ethylene Glycol - 12% Isopropilyc Alcohol - 8% Simple green - 59% water 

Bases 2) and 3) where only meant to check if some sort of surfactant would make any difference to the simpler base. There are none.
I diluted HP 7450 inks with the bases and tested the diluted inks in the same printer. The reason for using HP thermal heads is that platinum compounds are too expensive to be used in the very wasty Epson printing systems, while HP is far more conservative in ink usage. 

To be honest, I don't fully understand the rational behind so much attention toward dye inks by this community. If you want to produce handout or flyers to give out to potential clients, it seems a very expensive way to make those. JJust the ink cost is more than twice as much as MIS Eboni, for example. If you want to give out stunning samples of your art, those will look very different from the large size (pigment based, I assume) prints you will sell and your client would be disappointed comparing the latter with the former.

I cannot even imagine selling a photograph printed in large size with dyes. The latter are complex chemicals that should stay away from the fine art market. Once I made a print with HP dye ink on an uncoated fine art matte paper; it was a piece if beauty compared with my prints on Magnani Pescia  Hot Press before applying gelatine coating (as I normally do to my large size prints). However, after a few days I washed the former print with water and I could just not believe to my eyes; the blacks where totally gone and there was a ghost image remaining which was very dark green and the paper was yellow stained. 

There is too much talent in this community to be wasted in non archival techniques. If you want deep blacks, I believe the only way to go is (as Ernst suggested) is to coat a pigment based print. There are many sprays around that would do the job to your satisfaction.

  Mantinieri

http://www.mantinieri.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:
>
> I have a 30% dilution of the Noritsu K running in my 1400.  While I think the brochures I printed with the Noritsu K + 4% Claria M on Epson Premium Glossy paper were the best I've seen yet (for a high gloss type of print), the 30% dilution is smoother on close inspection.
> 
> The dilute dye shows more of the green characteristic.  
> See http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/BO-v-30pc.jpg  There I have a graph of the Lab A & B for the Noritsu Black Only as well as for the print/profile that also contains the 30% dilution.
> 
> I think some magenta is going to be needed.  After all, Epson never designed this ink for this purpose.  We have found in our pigment mixing that adding cyan makes a deeper black.  I think that is exactly what Epson has done here.  
> 
> Note that the the Epson Premium RC papers appear to have the least amount of green tint.  In a 1400 it might make sense to just buy a Claria LM (or M) to control this characteristic.  However, I think I'm going to aim for a monotone inkset that attempts to compromise the tone among the papers most likely to be used.
> 
> The dilution base used was similar to C6b (http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Ink-Mixing.pdf at p. 5) in that it uses glycerol, Photo Flo and Edwal LFN, in addition to water, of course.  For the dye, the main change is the addition of Dow Butoxytriglycol. This triethylene glycol monobutyl ether accomplishes several things, including being a dye coupling agent.  The Noritsu inks also use it (as well as glycerol).  It is available from Chemical Marketing Concepts (Dow) (860-354-2278) for $50/quart.  (Wear goggles when mixing it, as it can cause eye damage if it splashes.)
> 
> I used 10% glycerol, 10% butoxytriglcol, 10% Photo Flo and 1% Edwal, remainder water.  The viscosity is slightly below the range I've seen in the pigment inks, but here we don't need to keep anything in suspension.  So the issues are not the same.  Lower might be better.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>