Digital BW, The Print

Once again good information.  I read Davids article which was loaded with very good info.  In fact, I called one of the photographers who had a similar problem are read him some sections from the article. I'm going to get this right sooner or later.
 
 
Joseph Chandler

From: mrjimbo <mrjimbo@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] adhesion of print to mat


  
Hi Joseph,
Their are paper suppliers i.e. Shades of Paper that could provide you with sample packs to try out. You should be able to get these from all the prime paper guys so they should be available somewhere... You'll have to pay for them but I would highly advise it if your not that familiar with papers.. Also , constructively.. I realize your emulating photographs but David's position is very well founded.. If your doing a little testing you may want to include a little of that ....you just may be surprised.. In the end the choice is yours.. We all speak from our space which just may not be where you want to go.. Have it be fun.. I guess a last word of advise.. when we collaborate with a framer.. it might be just buying a service but if you look at it like a partnership of sorts ..go the extra mile to help them do their best for you.. I find not many "Mistrakes" happen that way....:-))..

jimbo
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Joseph Chandler 
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] adhesion of print to mat

Good information. Thanks loads. Now; I'm going to PDN either tomorrow or Saturday, is there anything special I should say to the paper makers, or should I leave it be? Personally I'm not the trouble making kind of a guy, I just want results, and the truth don't hurt! I like to print up to 13 X 19 size for my own collection (I shoot musicians, 'caus I love music). I printed out David Kachel' "Matting and Framing Your Photographs" and maybe this can guide me in the right direction. I'd like to think that my photos will be here long after I'm gone. 

Anyway, thanks again.


Joseph Chandler



From: mrjimbo <mrjimbo@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] adhesion of print to mat

Hi Joseph,
I got what your up to now...Thanks for getting back you've cleared it up I think.. 
Ok type of product you going after is just fine.. .. and in truth your material choices will be driven largely by personal preferences.. Epson's material works fine as does many other manufactures including those you suggested.. So my response to you would be to pick one that makes the best statement for you that your trying to make and you just like it.. Many here can an will offer suggestions for you to consider..

Now that I know what your using here is what headed south for your framer.. many of the newer papers offered by some suppliers are basically all synthetic.. The one that really brought down the walls all over was Epson's Prem semi matt.. their are still lawsuits going on over it. Anyway some of the newer materials just don't work with the traditional photo adhesive films that we've been using for ages...like photomount to name one.. The more it gets exposed to heat the crazier it gets.. So a framer that is used to using say Photomount is guaranteed to brake when he mounts a print made from Prem Semi Matt.. What also makes it difficult is that Epson is not doing anything to educate users of their materials in this area.. As a side note the mounted prints can't be saved..the framer will try to reheat and apply vacuum an dit might look ok for a day or so but they come apart again..

So the answer is simply to use a different adhesive film and the issue is solved.. but the framer needs to know this and know what to use.. so it's not business as usual anymore.. In all fairness to a framer.. when you bring a gloss print in he doesn't really understand any of this.. to him it's just a photo.. So he's doing what he knows works.. To help him do a better job tell him the specific material being used and if you can provide specific product info that would be great.. he can then check with his adhesive supplier to get the right product for the job.. The issue is totally focused on getting educated in my opinion.

A photographer friend of mine in another state had (24) 20 x 30 prints made on Epson's Prem Semi Matt. Then took them to a framer to get them mounted and framed for a special one man showing.. The show was supposed to last for a month.. they pulled it after two weeks as every print in the show was coming off the substrate.. He's still trying to live that one down.. 

jimbo

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Joseph Chandler 
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] adhesion of print to mat

Lets try this: what papers are best for printing Matte as well as "glossy type"? Are Ilford or MOAB seen as "junk" papers? The majority of my work is of musicians doing live shows, and often the purchasers are looking for a glossy type of print. This all started in my quest to find out about framig pictures and has evolved into what type of paper is used. 

Joseph Chandler 

From: mrjimbo <mrjimbo@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] adhesion of print to mat

Ooooooh, David your being brutal...:-))... Hopefully your not suggesting that Say Epson's Photo paper line ..ie Prem Glossy, Prem Luster or the newer Prem Semui matte are junk papers.. Their not in my opinion ...just used in instances where one wants to emulate a traditional photograph. Fine art papers which compare more to water color type materials are a different duck and should be treated that way.. I duley respect your take on this and it indicates your position in the prints you market.. That's a good thing.. This is a B&W group.. which is specific to that process and not necessarily just fine art on higher end fine art papers. Anyway I like your position and concur personally but as a service provider I realize that art is in the eye of the beholder so I feel it appropriate to respect our differences.

jimbo
----- Original Message ----- 
From: David Kachel 
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2011 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] adhesion of print to mat

>>> If, however , they are a photographic type material is deemed acceptable to
mount them to a substrate.

jimbo, good point. I tend to forget that most photographers use junk
materials.
If the prints were made on trash papers, then it doesn't matter if they were
mounted to old Big Mac boxes using chewing gum and scotch tape.
If however, they are serious prints on quality papers, then nothing sticky,
no matter what 3M says, should ever be used.
And foam coreS NEVER! Same category as Big Mac boxes.

David Kachel

___________________

Artist-Photographer
Fine B&W Photographs

www.davidkachel.com
david@...

Gallery:
www.reddoorfinephotographs.com
director@...

PO Box 1893
Alpine, TX 79831
(432) 386-5787

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