Digital BW, The Print

Hi John,
First I'd like to complement you if that's ok.. Your post method back lends itself to be part of meaningful conversation and discussion.. So up front I respect you for that ..ok? 

That being said ...I am well aware of the upgrade path change that occurred with CS6 .. How could one miss it as it was very controversial.. So much negative communication went in to Adobe on it that they lowered the price by around 20% as I recall to the CS5 upgrade to get their.. Ok so what's missing for me here is the upgrade path timeline actual schedule for Photoshop for the past say 10 years or so.. I had it and didn't save it.. :-(( .

So , yes typically, the upgrade path would go beyond the single previous version...But Adobe decided to change that ..Most of us assumed we were going to be able to go from say CS3 right to CS6 and as you and I both know they changed the upgrade policy on that and they made so you had to go from CS5 and up. This is the issue that everyone got upset about. On my end I feel they were not sneaky about it they just did it.. So that was a business decision for them.. I mean sure I wasn't happy about it but it wasn't my decision to make it was theirs.

As far as the Apple Mac Pro issue.. I don't know what build your running but I have three of them here two with the early 2008 dual 4 core processors and one with 2009 dual 4 core and the 2008 vintage have CS4 , CS5 and CS6 on them and the 2009 vintage has only CS5 and CS6 the only OS that would not run on this vintage was CS3..So you must have something different then me.

Constructively I'm sure Adobe was fully aware they were moving to the CC system when they brought out CS6 so that too, my guess is, influenced their thinking on the whole thing.. I also would like to toss this into the equation again... piracy.. most here have made light of it but it is really a bigger deal then most think. I 'm bringing this up only to so that we consider that it will help tremendously regarding helping to deter piracy. It won't solve it but totally but using drive cloning as a method to upgrade all the off lease machines will get stopped. In the past few years this has been a large issue on both platforms.

As far as adobe's flip flopping the past few years.. well I agree with you there.. They have really had a tuff go the past few years in the industry.. After they bought Macromedia they were viewed quite differently.. More a monopoly within the industry. Some separation occurred between Apple and Adobe ..the industry pulling away from Flash..Lots going on.
 
Ok now as far as the file access issue I respect everyone's concerns with this but I see it as workable.. I mean we have had the same issues already looking at say CS5 working files being compatible with say CS3 but of course we don't loose CS5.. The key is the if we know that were going to bail out on the CC version then we need to go into our files and rasterize those layers that will cause a compatibility issue.. So the fact is that is what we have to do now if we deal with compatibility issues. I don't think it's all over yet and it's still getting figured out.. Adobe is still getting tons of input from every direction.. I think we should hopefully clearly see that their recent photographer package of 9.99 a month for CC is an honest effort at both listening to and dealing with the noise and also trying to buy more time at their expense for both us and them to get it sorted out. I guess I should also say that I feel they will. This is a tuff shift for both them and much of their user base.. but they really feel this business model is their path to staying alive moving into the future... They are far better positioned to know that then we are. We must also realize that it's not just us that stand to loose something so do they.. their existence... 

I'm not mad at them and I don't hate them. It would have been easy if they would have left it like it was but apparently that is not workable for them to stay solvent and deal with some of the issues.. So I think we just need to tuff it out and see where it goes. The concept of a subscription model doesn't really make me nervous.. It's already going on with a lot of software that we both use and need I.E. Norton, Cad software, our web sites  etc.. So here for me it's just about continuing to row the boat. If I want off the ride I can get off.

jimbo

 



----- Original Message ----- 
  From: john eckenrode 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 4:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Photoshop Create Cloud program for photographers


    

  Jimbo,


  Yes Adobe did backtrack on the upgrade path. Back around November 2011 they announced that in order to upgrade to CS6 one had to own CS5.
  There was not going to be an upgrade path for owners of CS4 or CS3, etc. Up to this point Adobe had always had an upgrade path for owners that include older suites. This had several implications, but in short it meant that long time customers of Adobe that did not have CS5 would have to pay full price, not an upgrade price, to enter CS6. There was a well documented and huge backlash against Adobe then as well. Here is just one link, but google around and you can find lots of info on this.
  http://scottkelby.com/2011/an-open-letter-to-adobe-systems/



  I know firsthand, it very much affected me. CS5 was the only Adobe upgrade I had not made since about 1991-about the time I started using photoshop. Why? I had a Mac pro G5 and CS5 was not compatible. I was waiting for Apple to upgrade the Mac Pro. The latest Intel version had been out for a long time, it seemed an update to the machine was imminent–so I waited. Well in that process Apple never upgraded its Mac Pro–even though a new one is now imminent, they still haven't. I was not alone in this conundrum. So I was faced with either buying CS5, which I couldn't use, just so I could get CS6 when I could finally get an upgraded Intel Mac OR I could pay full price for CS6 by skipping CS5. It was a pickle. But Adobe's sudden policy change made it even more infuriating. Well, Adobe backtracked and provided an upgrade path to CS6 for CS3 and CS4 owners. I could't wait for Apple to quit dragging its feet so I upgraded to the current version of a Mac Pro and upgraded to CS6.


  Long story, but yes Adobe has been flip flopping all over the place for a couple years now on its policies and price changes and upgrade paths. There is not a lot of trust right now among many long term pro users of Adobe's products.


  The biggest fly in the ointment by far, by far, by far among my colleagues is the issue of CC file access. Price is of varying concern. (For me and the tools I need, the price is quite steep, but that is my issue.) But the fact that I will not be able to open my files if I stop paying the rental fee (MY creative work–not Adobe's). I face the very real possibility of having effectively useless files. The longer CC develops away from CS6 the more this becomes an issue. If Adobe had say a plan where after each year or two the user could "own" a copy of CC up to point of not renting, then I bet they would have many many people on board. But paying in perpetuity for guaranteed access to my files is simply an non-starter for me and many others. This trumps price completely.


  Thanks for listening :-)
  John





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: jimbo <mrjimbo@...>
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, September 9, 2013 7:35 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Photoshop Create Cloud program for photographers



    
  Sorry , I guess I didn't get it when I read it but I'm not sure what I didn't get.. 
  You said "I rushed to buy CS5. Guess what? Adobe then announced you could buy CS6 even if you didn't buy CS5. I'm finished with them!"   

  I assumed that you meant a CS6 upgrade not a CS6 Retail package as the CS6 upgrade would not work unless you had CS5 installed.. If you bought the retail package of CS6  having CS5 wouldn't matter and you wouldn't need CS5. 

  Adobe to the best of my knowledge, and I follow it pretty close, never offered to allow a CS6 upgrade package to license unless you had a valid CS5 licensed install. I in fact called them on that very issue as I had one work station at CS4 and was told the upgrade path was CS5 for CS6. As far as I know Adobe never back tracked as you say... but they did change their upgrade path policy with the entrance of CS6 so may be that's the issue at hand.....but that was made known from day one of the CS6 intro. So no biggy..

  jimbo
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: grdglass 1 
    To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
    Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 6:59 AM
    Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Photoshop Create Cloud program for photographers


      
    Jimbo,


    I suggest you have the misunderstanding. Read my original post more carefully. I bought CS5 in order to be able to buy CS6, which I have. You seem to be forgetting the history of Adobe's back tracking on their original policy regarding this issue.


    Helene


    The upgrade to CS6 was only valid if you owned CS5. So an upgrade from say CS3 or CS4 to CS6 was not allowed. This was published on most of the sources such as B&H , Adorama etc etc.. included being listed in the upgrade requirement listing on Adobe's site..( you can easily view them as their still up) That was from day one.. So if you were at CS4 you had to buy both the CS5 and CS6 upgrades to get there or just buy the CS6 retail software.. The CS6 upgrade software will not work with CS3 or CS4.. So I suggest somehow you have a misunderstanding.. The tough part now is that unless you stumble on an upgrade for CS5 say on ebay or Craigs list your out of luck. those have pretty much been sold out and are no longer being produced.. The CS6 upgrade today typically comes directly from Adobe unless you find one on Craigs list or eBay.. or?? You do have one more option.. and that is to call Adobe Support..... If you validate that you have a working license for CS4 and their are no CS5 upgrades in the pipe what they may do for you is ship you a retail version of CS6 and charge you for both upgrades.. They did that for me while back to resolve an issue I had. It saved me a few bucks..

    Not sure if it's ok to do this or not but I have a brand new unopened boxed PS CS6 for Windows (two computers allowed) retail package that I can live without.. If anyone wants it I will make a good deal it sells for 600 bucks on Amazon..I've never even opened the package.. 

    jimbo

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: grdglass 1 
    To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y 
    ahoogroups.com 
    Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 4:00 PM
    Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Photoshop Create Cloud program for photographers

    I bought every upgrade since PS 3 in 1995 (?). After CS4, I decided I would skip a version. Adobe announced if you didn't buy the CS5 upgrade, you wouldn't be able to buy the CS6 upgrade. I rushed to buy CS5. Guess what? Adobe then announced you could buy CS6 even if you didn't buy CS5. I'm finished with them! They are not exactly a corporate example of trustworthiness.

    I was shocked this morning watching Michael Reichmann's interview with Thomas Knoll on Luminous Landscape when Reichmann announced he skipped every other version of Photoshop. Imagine that!
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