Digital BW, The Print

Todd, 

I read your argument below...and I read Cone's statement (the quoted clip) carefully (as you suggest) and I most soundly disagree with you on the statements you make below.  

Perhaps the difference in our opinion is the starting point opinions/experiences of the reader  (wink).  

I have read too much on this forum and the old days of the PiezoBW forum to know that many people were having metamerism problems with Lyson, Epson and MIS inks.  While I did not use those inks myself, the numerous examples/statements from many people and the articles in the press would lead one to believe that those inks did produce prints that showed marked metamerism....of course one cannot always believe what one reads.  

In short, I think what Cone wrote does apply to the problems of metamerism seen in inks from other manufacturers....and I also think it is true to say that PiezoBW inks do not exhibit metamerism to the extent that other inks have.  Over the last year I read many accounts of people seeing metamerism from the other products from Epson MIS and Lyson.  I also read many statements (and I posted a few myself) that the PiezoBW prints I make do not show this metamerism to any noticeable degree.  

As for the ph of the inks themselves....I believe this is a valid point on Cone's part too.  I am producing prints that I want to last for many generations (if possible) and am always concerned about the archival properties of my materials.  This is the primary reason I use 100% rag cotton papers (acid-free) and "acid-free" mounting materials (mat board, adhesives...or no adhesives, mylar, pigment pens for signing prints, etc..).  I carefully look for "acid free" as a quality of the materials.  And I have extensively tested the papers I use for acid characteristics, and disqualified several popular papers due to ph test results (found somewhere on this forum in the files section I believe).  

So...if one ink is known to be acid...and another ink is non-acid (alkaline) then I am able to make a better informed decision to use the "acid-free" materials (inks) that I prefer.  I believe that as a manufacturer/distributor they (IJM or Cone) has the right to use the characteristics of their product as a selling feature.  I would.  

Introducing acid into the prints is not something I want to do.  Based on that goal of avoiding materials that would be acidic....I will continue to use materials I know to be acid-free and avoid the ones that are acidic.  

Of course that longevity is just one of my personal goals.  Some people just want to make a nice looking print and don't care about the quality of the papers or the longevity issues or the archival properties etc...And, before this last statement leads you or anyone to want to debate "archival" or "longevity" or stuff like that....I must simply say that: 

 "plenty of stuff has already been written on these issues.....so go read the archives."  (grin)  

As for your statement of comparing "apples to oranges,"  I do agree with you but in a completely different way.  I believe the inks, while inks, are so different that it is comparing apples to oranges to say that one is the same as the other.  That is why I continue to use PiezoBW inks (successfully I might add).  Now knowing that the inks themselves are not "acid" is just another benefit of using the PiezoBW inks (as I see it).  

Good luck printing,   (and Todd, you know I like you so this is not a personal attack on you)

Steadman  
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Todd Flashner 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 12:28 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] pH of quad inks



  > The Cone site implies that MIS inks might have a higher pH and are more
  > prone to Metamerism:
  > 
  > From the Cone site:
  > 
  > "PiezographyTinks are not subject to the metamerism found in dye based
  > inks nor dye/pigment inks. Metamerism is the tendency for an ink system
  > to appear different under varying light conditions. For example,
  > PiezographyT prints do not change dramatically under tungsten,
  > fluorescent and incandescent light sources. The same can not be said for
  > ink systems produced by EPSON, LYSON, MIS and others. Additionally, our
  > inks have a pH basic rating of 9 which makes them EPSON compatible.
  > Competing inks are often acidic."

  I don't mean to bash Cone or try to bolster any of the companies he tries to
  impugn, but I think a broad statement like this needs to be read very
  carefully and deconstructed.

  First off, this snippet was taken from the PiezoBW blurb. I think it's
  specious of Jon to imply that HIS inks should perform better than
  dye/pigment inks when he's admitted that the PiezoBW inks THEMSELVES are
  dye/pigment.

  Furthermore, unless Jon knows something we don't, Epson does not yet sell a
  Quad ink, so I don't know what he's comparing to of their line; and Epson's
  most metameric product is their encapsulated pigments which have no dye.

  All in all I believe Cone is not comparing apples to oranges, and the whole
  statement is a squishy mess.

  Lastly, inks, in a usable sense, not a quantum mechanical sense ;-), will
  only be as archival as the papers/coatings they are used on. Until we know
  what pH a given paper/coating is optimized for I wouldn't pay much attention
  to the pH of the ink that is put on it. (Pity Harvey's not here to call
  foolish for saying as much ;-))

  Todd


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