Digital BW, The Print

Bernd,

Welcome and thank you for delivering all the information and news! It 
sounds like the German paper companies have indeed taken notice of 
the demand for art papers! I can't wait to get my hands on some of 
the new papers you have described.

As you get a chance to browse through the posts so far you will note 
that we have been joined by people who are using dye based ink sets 
and achieving some incredible Dmax's. So if you would also keep your 
eye out for likely papers for these inks it would be much appreciated.

If you have a second printer running with standard dye inks, even 
CYMK, you might try some of the new "made for dye" papers and give us 
your impressions. I know that the samples you get are limited in 
quantity, but if there are things that are poor with Piezo inks but 
might be good with dyes maybe you can pass them on. Perhaps someone 
in the EU working with dye inks will turn up on the list.

Ron Landucci has given us some reports on the Spectratone Quadtone 
inks and Oce papers. Oce is a French company I believe. I don't know 
if they manufacture there own paper but this might be another EU 
paper source for you. I have used Oce plotters and the company always 
impressed me with their quality and innovation.

For those of you who are not aware, art paper sources in Europe are a 
real problem. Those of us in the US have more resources and lower 
costs even though much of the paper is made in Europe. A frustrating 
situation.

Please keep posting the paper information as it is indeed of interest 
to all the inkjet users. I hope to put together a list of all the 
paper manufactures, their names for their papers, re-branded names 
and a list of retail sources (EU sources too). 

Thanks,

Martin



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., ruhrfoto@y... wrote:
> Hi Martin, hi Antonis, hi everybody
> 
> 
> At first let me thank you for inviting me to join this list. 
> So far I´ve only been a member of the piezo list where I´ve 
> learned a lot of you piezo-guys while my input was rather small. 
> Thank you all for your generous attitude in sharing your 
> experiences.
> So what could be my input to this list.
> Well, I know that the German Fine Art Papers of the Hahnemühle 
> are loved a lot by Fine Art Printers world wide. Unfortunately 
there 
> has been great confusion in the past about their papers caused 
> by different labels used by different distributors, coating changes 
> by Hahnemühle and private coatings of resellers. But 
> nevertheless W. Turner (Wells River and so on ), German 
> Etching (Orwell and so on) and for some of us Torchon too, 
> seem to be recognized as first choice papers if it comes to the 
> high end.
> But there have been some critics too. 
> The surface-character of Torchon is disputed (loved by some, 
> hated by others – depending on the kind of images to be 
> reproduced I suppose).
> The surface of W. Turner is criticised a lot because of flaking 
> problems and its haptic characteristics (sandy!!).  Even the 
> surface of German Etching is not satisfying for everybody (not 
> smooth enough and sometimes flaking). 
> I tried to transmitt those critics to Hahnemühle in the past and 
> surprise: they took it serious and even admitted the problems. 
> As a consolation they told me, that they will come up with a new 
> paper in August/September which should resolve those 
> problems. It is called PHOTO RAG and will be 100% rag/cotton, 
> acid free with a smoother surface than W. Turner while keeping 
> its print characteristics.
> I´ll get some sample sheets this week and will report on their 
> printing characteristics with piezo inks next week. Lets see if it 
> holds promise.
> 
> Well I´m no Hahnemühle employee, so what else is new  at the 
> German Fine Art Paper Front:
> Someone of the piezo-list –guys mentioned Schoellershammer 
> papers some weeks ago. Schoellershammer is a traditional 
> German paper mill too, some hundred years old. They are 
> producing fine art inkjet papers for some times , what  I didn´t 
> know until now. Meanwhile I ordered a sample pack, which 
> arrived some days ago, and I printed some papers. Here come 
> some PLELIMINARY results:
> 
> 1. All papers are acid free 100 % rag
> 2. Schoellershammer claim to have optimized coating for dye 
> based inks (what doesn´t exclude to use pigment-inks)
> 3. their labeling is absolutely confusion to me that means: 
> although they call some of  their paper qualities rough, these are 
> very very smooth (sic!!!)
> 4. they have at least one paper, which may be an absolute 
> winner for piezo-users
> 
> 1. paper quality is called:	Watercolor Quality: Torchon, 200 gsm
> 2. paper quality is called:	Watercolor/Pastel Quality: Rough, 200 
> gsm
> 3. paper quality is called:	Watercolor Quality: Rough, 225, 300 
> gsm
> 4. paper quality is called:	Oilcolor Quality: Coarse Linen, 200, 
> 300 gsm
> 
> ad 1. Torchon is rather alike Torchon of Hahnemühle, special 
> surface for special indications in my opinion, not my game, 
> didn´t print on it yet.
> ad 2. Pastell rough 200gsm:  didn´t take the piezo ink very well, 
> overall impression was: flaw. But I had only one sheet and 
> printed with the Orwell profile, so maybe another profile works 
> better. But 200 gsm is a little thin, no?
> 
> ad 3: Watercolor rough: had only two sheets. One 225 and one 
> 300. printed on the 225 sheet with the Orwell profile first:  
result 
> too dark, no serious comment possible. Printed the second 
> sheet (300) after some curve tweaking in PS and surprise: it 
> came out like my best prints on Epson Archival Matte, Somerset 
> or even German Etching.
> A winner for piezo, I believe (so far). 
> Why: It is 100 % rag, it has 300gsm, the surface is a lot 
> smoother than W. Turner, even significantly smoother than 
> German Etching though a very little less smooth than Epsom 
> Archival Matte. The color is like German Etching, which means 
> not as bright white as EAM. Print Quality was surprisingly good if 
> you take in account that the paper is not profiled yet and I took 
the 
> Orwell profile by chance.
> I ordered some sheets and will report again. Hope the paper 
> fulfils my expectations.
> ad 4.: Coarse linen: nothing for serious fine art printing in my 
> opinion. Like Hahnemühle Canvas Artist. Didn´t print on it.
> 
> So to answer my question about a possible input to this list:
> As I am aware of the language barrier some of the users might 
> have when they have questions or comments with reference to 
> the German Fine Art Papers I could offer to be a transmitter of 
> our critics and wishes to the German industry. If that is 
> appreciated – feel free to contact me onlinne or offline.
> 
> So long.
> And good luck to the list.
> Bernd Langmack
> Essen, Germany