Digital BW, The Print

Hi Martin,

A friend of mine, Jerry Olson, has been trying to join the list but 
has run into problems with the form.  I don't know if he is the only 
one but here is a Head's Up.

Tim 















--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., mwesley250@e... wrote:
> Bernd,
> 
> Welcome and thank you for delivering all the information and news! 
It 
> sounds like the German paper companies have indeed taken notice of 
> the demand for art papers! I can't wait to get my hands on some of 
> the new papers you have described.
> 
> As you get a chance to browse through the posts so far you will 
note 
> that we have been joined by people who are using dye based ink sets 
> and achieving some incredible Dmax's. So if you would also keep 
your 
> eye out for likely papers for these inks it would be much 
appreciated.
> 
> If you have a second printer running with standard dye inks, even 
> CYMK, you might try some of the new "made for dye" papers and give 
us 
> your impressions. I know that the samples you get are limited in 
> quantity, but if there are things that are poor with Piezo inks but 
> might be good with dyes maybe you can pass them on. Perhaps someone 
> in the EU working with dye inks will turn up on the list.
> 
> Ron Landucci has given us some reports on the Spectratone Quadtone 
> inks and Oce papers. Oce is a French company I believe. I don't 
know 
> if they manufacture there own paper but this might be another EU 
> paper source for you. I have used Oce plotters and the company 
always 
> impressed me with their quality and innovation.
> 
> For those of you who are not aware, art paper sources in Europe are 
a 
> real problem. Those of us in the US have more resources and lower 
> costs even though much of the paper is made in Europe. A 
frustrating 
> situation.
> 
> Please keep posting the paper information as it is indeed of 
interest 
> to all the inkjet users. I hope to put together a list of all the 
> paper manufactures, their names for their papers, re-branded names 
> and a list of retail sources (EU sources too). 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., ruhrfoto@y... wrote:
> > Hi Martin, hi Antonis, hi everybody
> > 
> > 
> > At first let me thank you for inviting me to join this list. 
> > So far I´ve only been a member of the piezo list where I´ve 
> > learned a lot of you piezo-guys while my input was rather small. 
> > Thank you all for your generous attitude in sharing your 
> > experiences.
> > So what could be my input to this list.
> > Well, I know that the German Fine Art Papers of the Hahnemühle 
> > are loved a lot by Fine Art Printers world wide. Unfortunately 
> there 
> > has been great confusion in the past about their papers caused 
> > by different labels used by different distributors, coating 
changes 
> > by Hahnemühle and private coatings of resellers. But 
> > nevertheless W. Turner (Wells River and so on ), German 
> > Etching (Orwell and so on) and for some of us Torchon too, 
> > seem to be recognized as first choice papers if it comes to the 
> > high end.
> > But there have been some critics too. 
> > The surface-character of Torchon is disputed (loved by some, 
> > hated by others – depending on the kind of images to be 
> > reproduced I suppose).
> > The surface of W. Turner is criticised a lot because of flaking 
> > problems and its haptic characteristics (sandy!!).  Even the 
> > surface of German Etching is not satisfying for everybody (not 
> > smooth enough and sometimes flaking). 
> > I tried to transmitt those critics to Hahnemühle in the past and 
> > surprise: they took it serious and even admitted the problems. 
> > As a consolation they told me, that they will come up with a new 
> > paper in August/September which should resolve those 
> > problems. It is called PHOTO RAG and will be 100% rag/cotton, 
> > acid free with a smoother surface than W. Turner while keeping 
> > its print characteristics.
> > I´ll get some sample sheets this week and will report on their 
> > printing characteristics with piezo inks next week. Lets see if 
it 
> > holds promise.
> > 
> > Well I´m no Hahnemühle employee, so what else is new  at the 
> > German Fine Art Paper Front:
> > Someone of the piezo-list –guys mentioned Schoellershammer 
> > papers some weeks ago. Schoellershammer is a traditional 
> > German paper mill too, some hundred years old. They are 
> > producing fine art inkjet papers for some times , what  I didn´t 
> > know until now. Meanwhile I ordered a sample pack, which 
> > arrived some days ago, and I printed some papers. Here come 
> > some PLELIMINARY results:
> > 
> > 1. All papers are acid free 100 % rag
> > 2. Schoellershammer claim to have optimized coating for dye 
> > based inks (what doesn´t exclude to use pigment-inks)
> > 3. their labeling is absolutely confusion to me that means: 
> > although they call some of  their paper qualities rough, these 
are 
> > very very smooth (sic!!!)
> > 4. they have at least one paper, which may be an absolute 
> > winner for piezo-users
> > 
> > 1. paper quality is called:	Watercolor Quality: Torchon, 200 gsm
> > 2. paper quality is called:	Watercolor/Pastel Quality: Rough, 200 
> > gsm
> > 3. paper quality is called:	Watercolor Quality: Rough, 225, 300 
> > gsm
> > 4. paper quality is called:	Oilcolor Quality: Coarse Linen, 200, 
> > 300 gsm
> > 
> > ad 1. Torchon is rather alike Torchon of Hahnemühle, special 
> > surface for special indications in my opinion, not my game, 
> > didn´t print on it yet.
> > ad 2. Pastell rough 200gsm:  didn´t take the piezo ink very well, 
> > overall impression was: flaw. But I had only one sheet and 
> > printed with the Orwell profile, so maybe another profile works 
> > better. But 200 gsm is a little thin, no?
> > 
> > ad 3: Watercolor rough: had only two sheets. One 225 and one 
> > 300. printed on the 225 sheet with the Orwell profile first:  
> result 
> > too dark, no serious comment possible. Printed the second 
> > sheet (300) after some curve tweaking in PS and surprise: it 
> > came out like my best prints on Epson Archival Matte, Somerset 
> > or even German Etching.
> > A winner for piezo, I believe (so far). 
> > Why: It is 100 % rag, it has 300gsm, the surface is a lot 
> > smoother than W. Turner, even significantly smoother than 
> > German Etching though a very little less smooth than Epsom 
> > Archival Matte. The color is like German Etching, which means 
> > not as bright white as EAM. Print Quality was surprisingly good 
if 
> > you take in account that the paper is not profiled yet and I took 
> the 
> > Orwell profile by chance.
> > I ordered some sheets and will report again. Hope the paper 
> > fulfils my expectations.
> > ad 4.: Coarse linen: nothing for serious fine art printing in my 
> > opinion. Like Hahnemühle Canvas Artist. Didn´t print on it.
> > 
> > So to answer my question about a possible input to this list:
> > As I am aware of the language barrier some of the users might 
> > have when they have questions or comments with reference to 
> > the German Fine Art Papers I could offer to be a transmitter of 
> > our critics and wishes to the German industry. If that is 
> > appreciated – feel free to contact me onlinne or offline.
> > 
> > So long.
> > And good luck to the list.
> > Bernd Langmack
> > Essen, Germany