Digital BW, The Print

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Antonis Ricos" 
<antonisphoto@y...> wrote:
> Mark,
> 
> regarding monitor preview: this is unrelated to whether you 
>tone or not. An 
> RGB file should preview correctly if you follow good color 
>management 
> regardless of contents. 


I thought the same thing. It *always* looks "close", and "close" is 
a very vague and subjective word here. But I was surprised to 
actually print out the same file, having toned it in different ways, 
and see how different toning methods didn't match the monitor 
exactly. I can only guess we're getting into gamut limitations 
here.


>One way to avoid the games that ColorSync can play 
> at the system level, is to process the file through whatever 
>printer profile you 
> have and then send it through to the printer after you turn off 
>any Color Sync 
> functions available at the driver level.


This is interesting too. Interesting to compare the same exact 
file: one, converted to the output space, and then printed with 
"Same as Source"; and then the second, with just an embedded 
profile, like ColorMatch RGB, but then output through the custom 
profile.

Even yet another interesting approach that showed up with yet a 
different result: Choose ColorSync in the Epson print driver, and 
print the file THAT way, using the custom proflle. I found a slightly 
different look to that even.


> 
> Regarding crossovers: That is a common profile problem. You 
>would have to 
> optimize a profile for gray neutrality and even then, since you 
>are fighting with 
> the innards of the Epson driver over which you have no control, 
>it's not a 
> foolproof way. 


Yes. The first phase of my custom profile was the grey-chip 
linearization test. But as anybody who's ever tried to print a 
21-step grey wedge, using six colors (CMYK,c,m) can attest, it's 
VERY tough to get all 21 chips to be the "same color" of neutral. It 
seems deceptively simple; but I dare you to try it sometime.


>Just to make sure: you are talking about using 4 or 6 color inks 
> in an Epson right? If you are using MIS VT or other printers or a 
>RIP, please 
> clarify. 


I'm on a 7000, using MIS lightfast dyes (six colors). Using Epson 
Smooth Fine Art.


> 
> Regarding toning procedures: When you say you are using 
HSB, that means 
> you measure your colors in HSB  - or is your file written in HSB.  
Are you 
> working in Photoshop? There is no such file format there.  Do 
you have a 
> reason that you don't like a Hue/Saturation layer set to 
colorize? Regardless, 
> saving your settings or layer is by far the best way to come 
back to a known 
> point.
> 
> Antonis Ricos


Yes. Probably said that unclearly. I am toning using 
Hue/Saturation/Brightness most of the time. In RGB mode. And 
using "colorize". But, I have also toned just using the different 
RGB channels; moving the middle gamma slider left and right, 
while in different individual channels. I *will* say too, that toning 
using H/S/B sometimes gives this weird "banding" look when 
radically-different tones are adjacent. Sometimes, using Levels 
seems like it tones smoother; smoother, as in the gradation. But 
Levels also seems more limited in how saturated and how 
extreme you can tone.

I don't really work in layers very often; I just do many multiple 
"Save As"'s along the way, ending up with numerous 
slightly-different files. Somehow, working in layers seems kinda 
sissy; ie. "just commit, one way or the other". Again, this is just 
the way I work; may be VERY different for other people.

-MT