Digital BW, The Print

Hi Todd,

There seems to be a problem with Generations 5 inks and glossy papers. I
hear they are fine for matte, but no better than Generations 4 in
overall quality.  According to Media street themselves, Generations 5
inks are NOT compatible with any other MIS inkset.  I haven't tried
Generations 5.  In case I didn't like them, then I'd have to flush my
whole CIS system, and that I don't want to do.  I wonder how long
printers are supposed to last? My 1160 is about 2 1/2 years old, and has
had thousands of prints through it. Still going strong, but I suppose it
will give up the ghost soon. I'll replace it with a 1280, if there's no
CIS available for the 2200 when it dies.

I use the MIS hextone inks in my 1280 printer, with Generations
"Enhanced" black in place of the VM black. The generations black is the
deepest black that I've found that is supposed to be archival. I've
never had any print in the last 4 or so years fade even a tiny bit,
under normal display conditions. I'm done testing prints and inks and
papers in south windows. I've settled on a few papers, and the VM MIS
inks with enhanced black as the black and white inkset. For papers, I
like Eclipse Satine, Legion Photo Matte, Epson Archival, Epson
Watercolor, and PhotoRag if I want the very best. The Photo Rag 308 is
beautiful. But I don't use it much, as it's too expensive.  Media street
sells it in 2 weights, one that is about 180 or so GSMS, but it feels
too thin.  Media Street sells it as "Royal Renaissance". All their
papers with "Royal" in their name is made by Hahnemuhle.

For color, I've been using the MIS Archival Color inks in my 1160, and
Enhanced Black in place of the MIS black.  

I was really hoping to get a 2200, but I understand that the individual
ink tanks are very small.  So until a CIS is available, I won't be
getting that printer.

Jerry

Todd Flashner wrote:
> 
> Hi Jerry
> 
> Yeah I was trying to say that Gen inks WERE compatible with Piezo inks (I
> was a user of Paul's original Piezo/Gen VT formula too) but me English no
> good. ;-)
> 
> I didn't know the Gen 5 inks were not compatible though! Have you tried them
> BTW? What are you using for color work these days, the Epson 1280 dyes?
> 
> Todd
> 
> > Todd, the old piezo inks and Generations inks are compatible, as are the
> > MIS inks. I used to mix them a couple years back when I first started
> > looking for cold tones. It's the Generations FIVE inks that aren't compatible.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> >
> > Todd Flashner wrote:
> >>
> >>> I have some full-inkset PiezoTone test strips also.  However, I was most
> >>> eager to see if Jon had found a new and superior black ink or whether the
> >>> new K is just Generations Enhanced black.  We might be able to tell that by
> >>> Friday.
> >>
> >> I asked Jon on the piezo list if the Piezotones were pure pigments or
> >> contained dyes, and whether they would outlast the original Piezo inks in an
> >> absolute sense (fading vs warming) but got no reply. Do any of you beta
> >> users know anything about the makeup of these inks?
> >>
> >> I'd doubt it's Gen enhanced purely because Jon implies Piezotones are
> >> chemically incompatible with the old inks while we know Gen inks are not.
> >> Though, now that I think about it, he really just recommended flushing the
> >> lines and changing carts, but that could surely be for reasons of
> >> consistency rather than compatibility...
> >>
> >> Well, I certainly hope it's an advancement, new inks have been hitting the
> >> market. OTOH, we do seem to see that most brands are ultimately quite common
> >> to each other. Speaking of which, could they possibly be based on the Epson
> >> Ultrachrome K?
> >>
> >> Todd
> >>
> >> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and
> >> other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >>
> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >>
> >> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >> - Include your full name with your message.
> >> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> >> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> >> them short.
> >> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> >> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> >> "flames."
> >> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> >> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> >> resources on the homepage.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other
> > resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> > them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > "flames."
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various
> > resources on the homepage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or "flames."
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/