Digital BW, The Print

Hallo,

I have posted in this issue before! 

My own name for it "the master black devil clog"!

This is not only a MIS issue - got letters from others having the 
same problems!


I'm that type of person that I might do photographing for let's say 
three weeks, scanning for four days - printing for 4-5 days, in 
cycles. And that cycle may vary - depending of many a thing!

I have three CFS's - 1290 (1280's)(dye color, pigment color and a 
QUAD- systems that vary - and the my black tubes is clogged 
completely now and then. As beeing aware of it - I take the following 
measures:

Rip of the black-tube.

When printer not in use losen it from the black cart and plugs it 
with a 6 mm tube that is melt glued in the end.
Rise the black tube to emty it into the bottle - and plug the tube as 
well with a meltglued inlet-knee that is sold from MIS.

When to use the printer - - the plug from the cart is taken away - 
the ordinary tube is put back *when* I have filled the tube with ink, 
by carefully pressing the black bottle until the black tube is filled 
(put some absorbic paper on the black cart to soak some drops of 
black ink!)
A drip of isopropanol now and then on the parkingpad is liked by the 
printers!<smile> Keeps the nozzels fit!


The "dye-ink" - printer does not seems to have the same issue - howeve
I must clean this by printing some color-purging prints now and then 
to keep it fit for imediate use - otherwise this one also clogs in 
the nozzels!

Why this - because - the tubes are as well absorbic to air as well as 
pearmeable for fluids. I destroyed one printer - if not doing this - 
the black "fat grease" end up in the black cart - whatever you do.

I have investigated the tubes from CIS and MIS and they are about the 
same cheap stuff. There are other things - just now I have 
one "black" Tygon SE 200 for test taped on to the tubeset - and it 
works flowlessly so far. But I got one user mailing me when this 
issue was up last time - and he told me that he used the same TYGON 
SE 200 (a tube with inert of teflon) and the innert cracked. 
Not mine so far!

I have had this up with MIS directly and inderectly with the CIS 
deliverants and both simular cheap tubings!

Nothing done so far!

I'm not alone -got plenty of E-Mails last time it happend and this 
issue was up!

( You can start reading here - taken from the middle when this issue 
was up last time! 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/message/146
15 )
 
This should be solved by the companies delivering the systems - as 
they are aware of it!

I have mailed the deliverants - and they did ask me not to "blow
this up".

*Now* I got enought!

However - they have now been given proper time to "fix it" - but 
they don't seems to care!

I did - as you can see do some investigations as the engineer I am - 
however - time and job ended this!

If somone want's to cooperate I might take it up again. But there are 
costs (tubes and fright) and time involved - buying mounting , fill 
tubes and plug them,
and put them in heat (40 degres celcius) and then measure the weight 
on in milligrams over the time - and make carefull notes. Also 
testing and modifying holders are involved as the bending stiffnes 
are different.

Cut out from earlier post:

This is what is used - the cheapest there are: 
Look for Tygon® Vacuum Tubing : Formulation R-3603

http://www.tygon.com/new/europe/english/en_europe_index.html
Look into the PDF - and you see it's waterpermeble. (Think for 
youself what happens when you get other chemicals in it!) 

What we have stated 
1/ Low pressure
2/ Low flow or slow flow
3/ The Specific area of the tubes are very big that is:
the tubes must not absorbatic or permeatic.
This is 1,2 and 3 - Fluid stays relatively long time in the tube
The risk of both absorbation of outer air and parmation and thereby 
evaporation on the tubes surface are to be stopped. 
What is good:
a/ that the "transporting area" is very good.
b/ That friction agains the tubes walls are NOT a big issue(slow 
flow)!
c/ Pressure compared to the pressure that ALL tubes of Tygon is of no 
interest here - We have a very low pressure - next to none here 
compared to what the tubes they sell have!
d/All other tubes now examened has better/same fattigue strenge.

The flexibility of the of the tubes are important - and they stated 
that the hardnes meassured in Shore does in whole (some correlation 
here but it could also be the opposit) has not to do with the bending 
stress or bending elasticy force.

All othe tubes now examened has better fattigue strenge.

The HOT one just now is the inert tube that You can see here:

Look for: Tygon® Inert Tubing Formulation SE-200
http://www.tygon.com/new/europe/english/en_europe_index.html

The gay that reported of the "cracked" inerts in this tubes - seems 
to have vanished??? Are You there - *please* mail me! 

But - again - It's not our job to get "nice" tubes - it's up to the 
deliverants of this systems - not???




Fiat Lux! (Let There be Light!)

Bo Wrangborg
Moderator "Multi Pro" at Yahoo
M.Sc. Engineer
But in soul born to Photographing and Drawing!
 



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Using old CIS's that had been sitting around for a while totally 
killed the
> head of my 1160.  I'm not sure what the exact cause of the problem 
was, but
> I suspect something is drying out in those systems when they are 
sitting
> around unused.  (One thread here seemed to indicate that the tubes 
allow
> some air to seep through.  I would think that dried ink around the 
outlets
> might also be a source of problems.)
> 
> While the ink that caused my problem was Generations, I suspect all
> pigmented ink would cause the same problem.  In fact, I suspect 
that the
> VM/FS black and all the old Piezo inks would be the worst due to 
the more
> volatile co-solvent base that is used in those inks.  (But that co-
solvent
> is probably one of the reasons the VM/FS and PiezoBW blacks -- not 
the new
> PT K --  were the best all-pigment blacks I've tested.)
> 
> At any rate, I'd be reluctant to use a CIS that had been lying 
around unused
> for too long.  Replacing the head of my 1160 was not cheap.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> _________________________
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: azshtr [mailto:dave@t...]
>   Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 11:46 AM
>   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
>   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Cleaning Nomorecarts CIS tubes
> 
> 
>   --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...,
>   Bernhard.Schuerlein@t... wrote:
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From: "k2_chittin" <k2chittin@l...>
>   >
>   > > MIS VM with a new set of carts.  Having washed out the old
>   ink with
>   > > warm water, I'm unable to get the "black" tube completely
>   clean.  Has
>   > > anyone who has done something similar been able to
>   completely clean
>   > > their tubes?
>   >
>   > This is funny, because after some 3 weeks of no printing my
>   black cart tube
>   > was permanently clogged and I had to get replacement from
>   MIS. The clolour
>   > ink tubes were fine however...
>   >
>   > greetings Bernhard
> 
>   Ditto... after not using my system for a while the nozzle check
>   showed no black. After much cleaning and trouble shooting it
>   turned out the Black line was hardened, completly dry inside in
>   places.
> 
>   Dave
> 
> 
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