Digital BW, The Print

On 7/17/02 10:34 PM, "Steadman Uhlich" <steadmanuhlich@...> wrote:

> To Robert and Martin:
> 
> I sure do wish that Jon would profile the Eclipse for the new inks.  I
> really like Eclipse...very nice paper.

That's one of the reasons that I'm using IP.

Robert

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert G. Morrison [mailto:rmorrison@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 6:31 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Revised Selenium PiezoTones Review
> 
> 
> Double thanks to Martin, I also appreciated your review...it was great to
> hear the comments of a veteran silver printer...which I am not.  I'm glad
> to
> hear that I wasn't the only person that liked the ink set.  I'm really
> looking forward to trying it with Eclipse.  I'm getting a piezotone dmax
> of
> 1.65 with eclipse with IP.  It comes up to about 2 when coated.  The
> uncoated dmax is significantly duller than eam or photorag though.  I
> think
> that the Selenium tones on Eclipse then coated might be the closest thing
> we
> will get to a fiber based silver print...but we will have to see how much
> the coatings change the tonality of the inks. The whole process  is a fair
> bit of work...but not nearly as much work as actually making a silver
> print
> with a difficult image!
> 
> Robert
> 
> 
> On 7/17/02 3:07 PM, "Steadman Uhlich" <steadmanuhlich@...> wrote:
> 
>> Hey Martin,
>> 
>> Thanks for taking the time to post such a long and detailed review.  As
>> always, I appreciate your experience and your sharing of your opinions
> and
>> testing results with us.  The Selenium PiezoTones sound pretty "cool"
> (that
>> being a neat, nice, different, pick your own adjective...) (wINK).
>> 
>> Oh...and this is not to slight Robert Morrison, who's testing of the
> inks
>> and papers is also appreciated too.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Steadman
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Martin Wesley [mailto:mwesley250@...]
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 1:58 PM
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [Digital BW] Revised Selenium PiezoTones Review
>> 
>> 
>> Due to a typo and a mistake regarding Dmax in my initial post, I am
>> reposting this information to clear up any misunderstandings (and
> correct
>> my
>> grammar. <G>).
>> 
>> Revised Selenium PiezoTones Review (Cross posted)
>> 
>> I received sample bottles of ConeTech's new selenium hue PiezoTone ink
>> about
>> three weeks ago for Beta testing and have been using them steadily with
> a
>> CIS in an Epson 1280 for the past two weeks.
>> 
>> As far as my own personal tastes go, this is the best grayscale ink set
> I
>> have seen and I prefer it to anything else I have tried. The hue and the
>> chromatic complexity of the prints I have been making over the past few
>> days
>> is indeed right in the range that we commonly associate with selenium
>> toned
>> silver fiber prints. They have slightly cool highlights and a touch of
>> magenta in the midtones and shadows. I have toned silver prints on
> Ilford,
>> Kodak and Oriental hanging on my living room wall and, while the
> Selenium
>> PT
>> prints are not an exact match to any of them, they fit right in. Only
>> their
>> matte surface gives them away as not being air dried silver fiber and
>> mixed
>> with matte surface silver fiber would be undetectable as inkjet.
>> 
>> I would not call the Selenium PT inks "neutral" and probably would not
>> like
>> them so much if they were. The standard selenium toned silver fiber
> print
>> that we tend to think of as neutral is in fact not neutral at all. The
>> nature of the specific emulsion, the color of the paper base and the
>> manner
>> in which the toning was done results in a print that is subtly varies in
>> hue
>> as well as tone. This variation that I call chromatic complexity is what
>> makes silver prints so wonderful and so alive. Even book publishers know
>> that a true monotone does not adequately represent a photograph and
>> quality
>> books are done using 2 to 4 inks of different hue to simulate what is
>> happening in a silver print.
>> 
>> My primary paper is Hahnemuhle Photo Rag and the Selenium PT works
>> beautifully with this paper. I think the tone on EAM may be a bit better
>> though. This is my standard proofing paper but the difference in tone
> may
>> pull me back in that direction although Photo Rag is probably more
>> archival,
>> has a nicer texture and brighter white, there seems to be less warming
> on
>> the EAM and the initial hue is just a bit more pleasing.
>> 
>> I also tried prints on Hahnemühle German Etching and William Turner,
> Crane
>> Museo, Legion Photo Matte and Eclipse Satine. The finished look of the
>> print
>> varies a great deal with the paper you use and this is good news since
> it
>> means you can get a lot of different looks just by switching paper. The
>> very
>> white Legion Photo Matte and Eclipse Satine (Jon can we please, please
>> have
>> a paper profile for Eclipse!?!?) show more blue and greater variation in
>> hue
>> overall. The neutral paper base lets all the complex tones in the inks
>> show
>> through. The Legion Photo Matte is too bright for my taste but the
> Eclipse
>> looks very interesting. It seems to do much better with the Selenium PT
>> than
>> it did with the original Piezo inks. I tried the Orwell profile but it
> was
>> not quite right in the lower tones. On the German Etching and Wil.
> Turner
>> the prints were excellent but the cream-colored paper base cancels out a
>> good deal of the coolness in the highlights giving a more neutral look.
>> Museo is very pleasant with this ink set. Some of the coolness is lost
> but
>> it still a very nice alternative to Photo Rag and EAM.
>> 
>> The Dmax of the Selenium PT is identical to the Warm Neutral. Which is
> to
>> say very high. On EAM I recorded values in the 1.71 range and on Photo
> Rag
>> at 1.80. These were taken from wedges printed using the Piezo driver.
> The
>> Photo Rag density is getting very close to silver print Dmax. So close
>> that
>> the difference does not jump out at you like it does when the inkjet
> print
>> Dmax is down at 1.6. Since it appears that the black of the Selenium PT
> is
>> the same as the Warm-Neutral it should be possible to obtain even higher
>> Dmax values using other drivers. With the Warm-Neutral I was getting
> Dmax
>> values in the 1.88 to 1.90 range and values of 1.94 have been reported.
>> 
>> Regarding fading I have no data and I don't know how it will compare to
>> other ink sets. Jon has said it is undergoing RIT testing and did well
> on
>> in-house Xenon fade testing. I do notice some warming. It takes about 12
>> to
>> 24 hours for the prints to "settle" and achieve Dmax and initial color.
>> This
>> is similar to what I saw with the WN-PT. The change is not very large
> and
>> you can accurately assess your prints out of the printer reasonably well
>> once they are dry. After a few days the Photo Rag prints did show some
>> visible warm shifting but it seems slight and not objectionable. The EAM
>> showed much less warm shifting. This is pretty much in keeping with the
>> other ink sets I have tried.
>> 
>> Metamerism seems very slight and not at all unpleasant. In tungsten and
>> halogen light the prints are warmer as you would expect and the magenta
>> predominates a bit. In fluorescent, daylight and mixed tungsten/daylight
>> the
>> prints are more neutral. Looks great under all light sources that I
> tried.
>> 
>> Like the WN-PiezoTones I experienced no clogging problems or green
> casts.
>> The CIS started right up immediately after vacuum loading and 4 nozzle
>> cleanings, and has passed every nozzle check since.
>> 
>> At this point my favorite inks for use with the Piezo driver are
>> Selenium-PiezoTone, Warm Neutral-PiezoTone, MIS-FS and MIS-FS Neutral in
>> that order. For me and my own tastes, I think the PiezoTones are the
>> better
>> way to go. I especially recommend the Selenium-PT to people who are
>> transitioning from traditional silver fiber printing to inkjet. While
> you
>> will still need to get used to the matte surface of the papers, you will
>> not
>> have to go through a big hue adjustment.
>> 
>> All in all the Selenium-PiezoTone inks represent a really stunning
>> addition
>> to what is available for inkjet printing. With the reduced price of the
>> Piezo driver and these new inks, I strongly suggest you give them a try.
>> We
>> each have our own likes and preferences but I will be very surprised if
>> this
>> does not become a top contender for the most popular ink set.
>> 
>> Martin Wesley
>> 
>> http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html
>> 
>> 
>>