Digital BW, The Print

Keith 

You heard it here first. They are wonderful. In the past, they never
used to be. There are no noticeable color crossovers either. Just
reporting what I'm experiencing.  I'm not having that good luck in
getting great color prints from this very same inkset. Too flat, and
reddish, without large tweaks in photoshop.  Maybe this is a new and
different ink, or maybe it is in some way faulty, but it is my
experience with this set of inks, anyhoo.

> 
> To my knowledge, this is the first time I have EVER seen someone say the
> OEM 1280 inks could make dead on neutral B&W prints...

> If your statement is accurate one wonders why there are so many hex and
> quad black inksets out there...

It is accurate for this set of inks, anyhow.

> I guess we must all just like wasting our money on non-OEM product.

Oh no, the ink cost savings make the CIS well worthwhile.

Like I say, this has never happened to me before either. I've always had
green/magenta metamerism with epson inks. But not with THIS inkset.
Epson makes it's inks in many places. Maybe one of them finally got it right.

> I'm not saying your statement is not possible, but I have to wonder
> about it.  You are doing this with or without profiling? With or without
> curves?  etc..

Yes, no profiling, no curves.

This is on Legion Photo matte paper. Other papers are much warmer and
some have the dreaded crossovers. And the setting is simply on
automatic, 1440 DPI, and generic RGB setting in the final print dialogue
box. Paper matters!	On EAM paper, the prints are definitely brownish. On
eclipse papers, they are green/magenta/light/no good blacks, etc.
Definitely NOT the paper to use with epson dye inks! I now have to
replace the cartridges, and the ink that I will be now using came from
Atlex. We'll see if everything holds up, and I'll report any differences.

Before I actually get another CIS inks system, I want to see the neutral
piezo inks that Jon Cone is releasing soon. I understand MIS is
releasing yet another inkset. This is getting out of hand. Who has time
to test everything that's out there anymore? One thing sure, I won't get
another CIS unless the inks can deliver a very neutral tone, with a
D-max of 185 or better.

> 
> As for how much metamerism is "too much," the amount  individuals will
> accept certainly is a personal choice... Some people  actually make B&W
> prints with the OEM 2000P inkset... I just don't know anyone whose
> prints/color-judgment  I would trust doing so..

I've seen them. They are totally unacceptable to me. Horrid!

> For me, if it's significantly more metamerism than I get with the
> inksets I currently use, why change?

I wouldn't.  As I say, this has not happened to me before, and I have
never seen the great black and white tones I'm now getting with the new
1280 and the inkset that came with it.

> 
> The reason many use the MIS or Piezo inksets (even with the need for
> spraying on some media) is the lack of metamerism..  As other have
> pointed out, even the small metamerism of the Lyson SGs is too much for
> them.. So, it's a personal taste based upon need... I can use the Lyson
> SGs when I need glossy B&W or want images that are highly toned.. For
> matte papers when I need good non-metameric B&W the MIS VM and MIS VM
> Sepia are my inks of choice..  Gotta choose the tool for the job.

The small gamuts produced magnificent daylight tones with about 40 blue
and 10 cyan for me. But the metamerism under tungsten lighting was very
magenta. Not acceptable.

I will tolerate brown tones under tungsten light, but not
magenta/green/blue/yellow/red/ etc.

Jerry