Digital BW, The Print

Martin,

I totally agree with what you've said here. I think the problems most of us experience are driven primarily by two things:  1) digital printmaking is really in its infancy and there will naturally be "growing pains", and 2) I believe and fully agree with you that printer manufacturing will, in the normal course of mass producing any product, lead to variations. Therefore, it is easy to believe that my printer may clog, band, etc., and yours doesn't. Jon's last e-mail to me was very understanding and I think he was trying to tell me, in a nice way, that perhaps my 1160 was not up to the task of handling the tight dither pattern of the piezo driver. Made some sense to me...after all, the 1160 was a $300 printer when you could walk into your local Staples and pick one up off the shelf.

Overall, I would say that I've had less problems with a CIS on my 1160. I just couldn't convince myself to invest in the cost of 4 oz bottles of PT-ST without knowing for sure that I had a high probability of everything working out. I don't have that kind of $$ to throw away. Jon said that Cone Editions buys lots of printers and they weed out the duds selling 'em on eBay. Personally, I don't have the financial resources to "buy and sell" printers until I stumble across one that is acceptable. I guess that's really at the heart of what I'm trying to say... The beginning digital imager should be aware of the possible pitfalls involved. I didn't have the opportunity of learning from all the fine folks on this forum before "diving in." I'm learning a lot now, though!

As I said before I have not totally given up on Piezo. Maybe one day I'll have the money to invest in a "better" printer for this software and inks and all will be good. I, for one, like the "color" and tonality that the PT-ST inkset lays down on Photo Rag. I was tremendously disappointed that it didn't work out. Hmm...maybe an Epson 1280, now that a rebate is available, would work well. According to what I've read from others on this list, the 1280 seems to have minimal problems with the new PT inks. After all, there is a lot to like about Piezo: the minute tonal differentiation, dotless output, the paper profiles, the simplicity of the workflow, to name a few. I'm not casting stones at IJM, Jon, or Piezo, just, maybe, letting off some steam.

Thank you to all for listening.

Best regards,
Alan

-----Original Message-----
From:	Martin Wesley [SMTP:mwesley250@...]
Sent:	Thursday, August 08, 2002 7:44 PM
To:	DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject:	Re: [Digital BW] PiezoTones:  Are they ready for prime time ?

Alan,

What seems to continue to be true is that we all are having a wide variety
of experience with the different ink sets. Some people do just fine and
others have nothing but problems.

I have been running MIS-VM in one 1280 for 10 months or more with minimal
clogging or banding problems. A couple of strange incidents where a nozzle
cut out in the middle or a print and then kicked back in again before the
print was complete.

I played around with MIS-FS, FS Neutral, Sepia-VM and some blends of my own
on my second 1280 using cartridges. This gave me many more problems with
clogs. Just about every print session needed to be proceeded with nozzle
checks and frequently multiple nozzle cleaning cycles and a couple of
overnight sits.

I tried the Warm Neutral PiezoTone inks with a CIS in the same printer and
initially had zero clog problems. After several weeks I suddenly got some
banding which cleared up with a couple of nozzle cleanings. After that I had
to check nozzles at the start of every print session and usually do a
cleaning. After about 2 weeks of this I got nothing but good nozzle checks
and no more clogs.

The same printer was changed over to the Selenium PiezoTone with a new CIS
and I have had minor clogging problems. I do a nozzle check before each
print session and it is good probably 8 or 9 times out of 10. The checks
that aren't good clear up in 1 to 4 nozzle cleaning cycles. I have lost a
couple of 13x19 prints when a nozzle clogged mid print like the VM but other
than that okay. No quite as clog free as the first 1280 with VM but good
enough if I do my checks. Nothing compared to the clog nightmares I had with
the original Piezo on my 1200.

In general I have had much worse problems with clogs using cartridges than I
have using a CIS. This was true with my original 1200 and the original Piezo
inks as well. Other people have found the opposite to be true. They get
fewer clogs with cartridges and have a terrible time with the CIS.

The only explanation I can offer is printer to printer variation. Or perhaps
climate extremes.

In the mean time I am printing away with the Selenium PT and pretty much
like it better than anything else I have tried. I am sorry to hear they
worked out so poorly for you.

Martin Wesley

http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html



----- Original Message -----
From: "A. Huntley" <prasepe@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 08, 2002 6:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] PiezoTones: Are they ready for prime time ?


> I have tried several times and spent more $ than I care to admit to trying
to get the Piezo system routinely working successfully on
> my Epson 1160. Each time I have returned to MIS inks. I got so frustrated
this last time 'round that I loaded up a brand new CIS
> with MIS VM inks and tossed the PiezoTone ST cartridges in the trash!
Microbanding, clogging, etc., is, regardless what Jon and
> Co. say, a very real problem. They continually blame it on the
hardware...I ain't buying it!
>
> Case in point:  when I had the ST cartridges installed, I printed a few
images one afternoon and returned the next evening to print
> another one. A quick nozzle check--which I routinely do every time before
beginning a print session--revealed about 1/2 the nozzles
> not firing. I ran several cleaning cycles, let it sit overnight (can't
tell ya how pleased I am to have to do this!), and the next day's
> nozzle check showed that all but 1 or 2 were firing properly. I went ahead
with my printing, anyway. Shouldn't have bothered because
> banding was present once again.
>
> OK...I've tossed the ST cartridges and installed MIS VM. Printed a couple
of images and, then the printer sat for maybe 4 or 5
> days. Upon turning it on, I did my usual nozzle check and, voila, perfect
from the get go! Even the 1 or 2 that I could NEVER get
> going with the Piezo cartridges were now OK. Can't say I've totally given
up on Piezo--I'm stubborn and the paper profiles are a
> very nice to have item--but, given the ability to modify the "color" of
the print using Paul's VM inkset, and the results obtained, I'm
> pretty much sold on MIS VM for now. I'm getting beautiful prints on EAM.
I'm satisfied. Life is good.........
>
> Hope this helps in your decision.
>
> Best regards,
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lawrencetrek [SMTP:ltitle@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 8:59 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] PiezoTones:  Are they ready for prime time ?
>
> Microbanding, clogging, and now clipping ...
>
> As I debate making an investment into a new 1280 printer for PiezoTones
> carts, some of you guys are continuing to scare me off.  How, prevalent
are
> these problems ?  Are any of you having trouble free printing with the new
> inks (with the 1280 carts rather than CIS) and producing excellent prints
?  If
> so, why are others posting such problems.
>
> Now, I am starting to consider the prospect of buying the Epson 2200 and
> buying custom printer profiles to try to produce my B/W digital prints.
Could
> be less stressful until more of the kinks are removed from piezography.
Help
> and guidance would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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