Digital BW, The Print

Chip,

Depending on which printer you're using, either the FS-N or the VM inksets
are probably good choices.  If you have an 1160 or 3000, you can use the
FS-N with the Epson driver.  At $150 the Piezo driver is not a bad deal.  If
you want to try a lot of different papers, the profiles help you do this.

Good luck.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com


___________________
  -----Original Message-----
  From: photo_bear_nova [mailto:jlenkiewicz@...]
  Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 4:39 PM
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] PS Quadtones vs. a dedicated system(Attn: P.
Roark)


  From what I see in your fade tests is that for someone making the
  move to the digital darkroom the MIS FS-N seems to have the better
  stability. I am wanting a set of inks that will provide for "salable"
  prints. I know nothing will replace a wet darkroom print at this
  point in terms of image stability. But I would like something close.
  In the wet darkroom I am used to using Polycontrast Fine Art and
  Polycontrast RC.

  Though since I am testing things out at this point I am hesitant in
  making the $150 investment in the PZ drivers (I may decide that the
  wet darkroom is the best way go after the tests). Based on your
  experience with the info provided will the MIS-VM do what I am
  looking for? Your curves for this ink seem interesting (as well as
  your images on the website). The best of all worlds.

  Thanks for helping the beginner...

  Chip



  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark"
  <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
  > Ken,
  >
  > I use the third-party pigments from MIS or MediaStreet.  Bought in
  bulk,
  > these are very cheap and, for my uses, very good.  I tried to do
  B&W with
  > the Gen3 pigs (relatively weak yellow in Gen3 has been upgraded in
  Gen4),
  > and found the tone shifts unacceptable.
  >
  > I now have a fade test going with Epson 2200 and PiezoTone-selenium
  test
  > strips in the fader.  The third spot in the fader is a test strip
  printed
  > with MIS archival pigments, but with the new, tougher yellow (same
  as the
  > Gen4 yellow, I believe) and the MIS FS/VM black (the best I've
  found).  So,
  > the best of the 3rd party pigments are up against the new
  UltraChrome inks
  > (best combination of color and stability yet) and PiezoTone-
  selenium quad
  > (best quad midtone).
  >
  > One thing I want to see is if these color inksets still have
  unacceptable
  > color shifts due to differential fade.
  >
  > It is way to early to draw any conclusions -- only 100 hours now.
  At this
  > point, both the UltraChrome and PiezoTone 50% patches show a 0.01
  tone
  > shift, but that could be less, since that is the smallest amount
  the X-Rite
  > densitometer can read.  The MIS Arc pigs show a 0.03 drop in
  magenta.  While
  > it's too early to make any conclusions, this is a bad sign.  It may
  be
  > shifting green.
  >
  > So, stay tuned.  The fade test will reach 300 hours at the end of
  next week.
  > That is typically where the old warm-shifting quads started to
  stabilize
  > into a predictable, linear fade pattern.  So, it may be a place
  where we'll
  > have a much better basis for some judgments about tone stability.
  >
  > Paul
  > http://www.PaulRoark.com
  >
  > ____________________________________________
  >   -----Original Message-----
  >   From: heliar333 [mailto:heliar@a...]
  >   Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:18 AM
  >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
  >   Subject: Re: [Digital BW] PS Quadtones vs. a dedicated system
  >
  >
  >   Paul -
  >
  >   If I follow, there are 3 considerations: tonal integrity,
  longevity,
  >   and price. No doubt, dye inks are a poor solution with respect to
  >   longevity and price. If, however, we were to use a color inkset
  with
  >   excellent longevity and value, then the question boils down to
  tonal
  >   integrity.
  >
  >   Perhaps I can re-state the question: Given pigmented inkset of
  >   comparable economy and longevity, what is the compelling reason to
  >   favor quadtone printing done with 4 or more inks, versus
  >   the "virtual" or "simulated" quadtone available through
  Photoshop ?
  >
  >   Thanks !
  >
  >   - Ken Lee
  >
  >
  >
  >   > A perfectly-profiled 1280 with Epson dye ink can make B&W prints
  >   that look
  >   > very good -- in some light and for a little while.  However,
  even
  >   if you get
  >   > the cross-overs/color tints out of the system when the print is
  >   fresh, with
  >   > differential fade of the dyes there will be color shifts.  Also,
  >   the photo
  >   > will suffer from "metamerism" -- tone shifts as the display
  life is
  >   changed.
  >   >
  >   > Probably most of us have gone through the drill of trying to use
  >   color inks
  >   > for B&W.  The 2200 might make the grade, but until I have seen
  the
  >   results
  >   > of long-term fade tests (which I, among others, are doing) I'm
  >   going to
  >   > remain a bit skeptical that Epson has entirely solved the
  problem.
  >   >
  >   > Actually, a big factor you might want to consider is cost.  At
  >   least with
  >   > the MIS ink, the cost is very low compared to Epson inks --
  >   especially if
  >   > you buy bulk ink and either load carts yourself or use a
  continuous
  >   inking
  >   > system.
  >   >
  >   > So, a spare printer with quads might make experimenting with
  >   digital photos
  >   > both more satisfying and less expensive.
  >   >
  >   > Paul
  >   > http://www.PaulRoark.com
  >
  >
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